Value of: Sobotka + Berglund

[Ranksu]

ROR?

 

[belair]

Good?

Better than anyone they have in their bottom six currently. They already traded the good center. Continuing to trade down isn't going to pay them any dividends.

Berglund is a fine center, STL fans just let their expectations of him get to a point where he wasn't realistically able to meet them.

 

[Taluss]

I’m looking forward to seeing what kind of impact they make on the Sabers tbh

 

[sandybridge]

Erm, what? Berglund scored 10 goals in 42 games in 2015-2016, 12 goals in 77 games in 2014-2015, and 13 goals in 71 games in 2009-2010. Where are those numbers from?

Berglund has played 336 games and scored 134 points over the past 5 seasons. That’s an average of 67 games and 27 points per season, or 33 points per 82 games. I fail to see how calling him a “30 point player” is anything other than an incredibly accurate assessment.

ROR and a replacement level player is a significant upgrade over Sobotka and Berglund. Not sure how anybody can honestly try to argue that.

That's a pretty dishonest assessment of Berglund. Since much of that time he was playing with significant injuries, and had multiple shoulder dislocation surguries, which was finally corrected this past year. Any time you look at the seasons where he did not have injury issues, he was easily a 20G + and 40 P player.

Sobotka, hasn't really looked like himself this past year. But there is hope that he might get back some of the fire and intangible qualities before he headed off to Omsk. Who knows, we will just have to see what he will do in the bottom six. Whatever he does, could not be as bad as what was there before, since the current bottom six is positively the worst in the league by a large margin.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Okay, so, honest question; I was trying to compare the ROR trade from a Sharks POV.

I would say Sobotka+Berglund have the same value as Chris Tierney and Melker Karlsson, and that is probably a bit generous anyways; right?

As a whole, a comparable package would likely be Chris Tierney, Melker Karlsson, lottery protected 2020 1st, and Joshua Norris. Right?

Personally, I would not give up a 7th round pick for this duo. 2 more years at $3.5M for Sobotka, a 30 point player, and 4 more years at $3.8M for Berglund, a 30 point player? No thanks. That’s way too much money and term for a pair of bottom-6 forwards. I would much, much rather have $7.325M in cap space to use in unrestricted free agency or the trade market. I could do a lot better than those two with that kind of money.

No that doesn’t get ROR. Where is the Thompson level prospect

 

[DatDude44]

Better than anyone they have in their bottom six currently. They already traded the good center. Continuing to trade down isn't going to pay them any dividends.

Berglund is a fine center, STL fans just let their expectations of him get to a point where he wasn't realistically able to meet them.

That why he was moved to wing? Big, slow and soft. He CAN be a serviceable 3rd liner when he wants to be.....but that’s at about a 1 out of every 10 games clip. Not to mention he’s brutal at tracking on the back check and turns the puck over way too much. He was a passenger last year. If he can play anywhere close to how he did about 5-6 years ago he’ll be a good addition.....but I highly doubt that will happen

 

[Spektre]

Better than anyone they have in their bottom six currently. They already traded the good center. Continuing to trade down isn't going to pay them any dividends.

Berglund is a fine center, STL fans just let their expectations of him get to a point where he wasn't realistically able to meet them.

That’s an opinion by some but I don’t think the facts are there. In Berglund’s last 181 games (last 3 years) he has 25 assists. That’s an average of 1 assist every 7.24 games. He’s a center that doesn’t generate offense. By comparison let’s use Brodziak. He’s played 226 games the last 3 years and has 34 assists. That’s 1 assist every 6.64 games.

Brodziak has 25 goals while Berglund scored 50 over the last 3 years. You have to keep in mind their ice time and quality of line mates. Berglund has the benefit of more ice time and better wingers.

Berglund averaged close to 16 minutes a game the last 3 years while Brodziak averaged 12.

The difference is Brodziak is accepted as a 4th line center while Berglund gets accolades he doesn’t necessarily deserve.

Both are below average skaters. Berglund has the better shot. Brodziak has better hands and vision.

Brodziak makes 1.15 million for the next 2 years.

Berglund makes 3.85 million for the next 4 years.

If I’m a GM, Berglund would be a good 4th line center if his salary was lower. He’s overpaid for what he brings. The extra rub against Berglund is that his production stays the same even if he’s moved up with top 6 talent. He doesn’t generate offense. He can finish if set on a tee. He’s a very good puck position player but it only results in time with the puck.

There’s no reason Blues fans should be salty against Berglund over expectations. He’s been the same player for a very long time.

 

[Djp]

If you retained a bit on Sobotka you could probably net a 2nd or a decent prospect out of a playoff team if he doesn't suck ass in Buffalo. Berglund? Why are you trading him? Don't trade good centers. You'll never get them back.

If Sobatka does well they could trade him with 59% retained making him free this year and a decent cap hit next yr under $2M he could get a playoff teams 2nd.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

No that doesn’t get ROR. Where is the Thompson level prospect

Joshua Norris might be a marginally inferior prospect, but they are certainly on the same level.

 

[ManyIdeas]

Berglund is going to be defensively responsible and can shoot the puck. Overpaid? Probably, but still definitely serviceable and a great 3rd line center/winger. Can kill penalties and is 100% capable of cycling for a billion years for no reason whatsoever with no payoff.

Sobotka before his injuries and KHL trip was a hell of a thing to watch as far as entertainment went, but I'm not a fan anymore.

 

[Stealth JD]

Buffalo will like Bergy. Sobotka is hot garbage.

 

[simon IC]

Berglund is a good hockey player. He is a possession monster, he is defensively responsible and can PK. He has a great work ethic and seems to be popular with his team-mates. He might be slightly overpaid, and his contract is a year or two longer than I would like, but it is not the albatross deal some Blues fans have depicted. He will be a fine addition to the Sabres. He is a great 3rd line LW/C, and can play up the lineup if needed. He does have a history of injury, but if he can stay healthy, I think Buffalo fans will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[BlueDream]

Calling Berglund a 30 point player is funny. When he is actually a legit 20 goal scorer. Fun fact, Berglund has scored 17+ goals EVERY SEASON OF HIS CAREER. that includes lockout shortened season and injuries. He is a 20 goal scorer period and he can win face offs play 2 way hockey and provide leadership. That is easily worth ~4 mil. Not to mention he has been a better even strength scorer then RoR has been. Berglund is not overpaid. If anyone thinks 3.85 mil is overpayment for a 20-23 goal scorer who isnt a rfa is not aware of comparable contracts.

Sabres arent trading them. They are 2 good middle 6 vet forwards. Sabres still are happy with the RoR trade and we are a better team now.

It is possible to be both a 20-goal scorer and a 30-point player. Rare maybe, but Berglund pulls it off.

How, you ask? He has legitimately ZERO playmaking skills. No vision whatsoever. He's great at holding onto the puck and skating around with it but he'll just skate around with it for 10 seconds and then either take a long-distance shot or lose it because he can't find open teammates to make plays.

So yeah, 30 points is about what he'll get. 35 at most. Sometimes you watch him and wonder if he just skates with his head down the whole time because he's gotta be the worst set-up man in the league. He can score, but his lack of ability to ever make a good pass is almost impressive.

That's a pretty dishonest assessment of Berglund. Since much of that time he was playing with significant injuries, and had multiple shoulder dislocation surguries, which was finally corrected this past year. Any time you look at the seasons where he did not have injury issues, he was easily a 20G + and 40 P player.

Sobotka, hasn't really looked like himself this past year. But there is hope that he might get back some of the fire and intangible qualities before he headed off to Omsk. Who knows, we will just have to see what he will do in the bottom six. Whatever he does, could not be as bad as what was there before, since the current bottom six is positively the worst in the league by a large margin.

That is just false. Berglund hasn't hit 40 points since 2011 (one of only 2 times he's done it btw). He hasn't even been on pace to hit 40 since 2013 (lockout shortened year). Blaming that on injuries is asinine. But even if he HAS been injured for the past 5+ years straight, isn't that a red flag in itself? Lol.

You act like the guy was playing through entire seasons with a dislocated shoulder. That is not even close to being true. No player would play through the regular season like that... Now has he played injured in the playoffs a couple times? Yes. But who hasn't? And that's very different.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Joshua Norris might be a marginally inferior prospect, but they are certainly on the same level.

I think that’s just homer bias.

I think Thompson is clearly a superior prospect

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Throw in Tage Thompson + 1st + 2nd and you could probably get a solid, O’Reilly-type center.

Nah man no team is dumb enough to trade a 60 point center for 2 botom 6 forwards 2 picks and a prospect.

Nope nobody at all.

 

[Dominicr]

Betglund & Sobotka for Bobby (coming in hot) Ryan.

Ottawa would be dumb if they didn’t jump on that real fast. That would greatly improve their odds of not giving Colorado Hughes.

 

[TheBluePenguin]

Berglund is an enigma, the guy can carry the puck and score 20 goals a year!!! All while only getting 30ish points because he cant pass to save his life. His assist numbers are beyond horrid.

 

[nickschultzfan]

Watch both players be positive contributors to Buffalo moving forward.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Watch both players be positive contributors to Buffalo moving forward.

I fully expect Berglund to be a contributor for the Sabres. He's a legit 20 goal scorer with solid defensive chops. Should definitely be a boost to our bottom 6. Plus, everything you hear about him off the ice, he just seems like a consummate professional and a good vet to have in a young room. Sobotka...we'll see. Historically, he's shown himself to be a very capable bottom 6 role player, but his most recent play obviously has been pretty uninspiring.

 

[Jame]

If Sobatka does well they could trade him with 59% retained making him free this year and a decent cap hit next yr under $2M he could get a playoff teams 2nd.

What world are you living in? Certainly not the one with a rental marketplace that see guys like Thomas Vanek go for 3rd round picks at the deadline, and guy like Sobotka get PTOs when they become free agents...

 

[Spektre]

I fully expect Berglund to be a contributor for the Sabres. He's a legit 20 goal scorer with solid defensive chops. Should definitely be a boost to our bottom 6. Plus, everything you hear about him off the ice, he just seems like a consummate professional and a good vet to have in a young room. Sobotka...we'll see. Historically, he's shown himself to be a very capable bottom 6 role player, but his most recent play obviously has been pretty uninspiring.

I would argue that Sobotka has more upside than Berglund. It will be interesting how both are used and to watch Buffalo fans critique each. Fun fact is as uninspired Sobotka seemed to be last year it was Berglund that sat in the Press Box for a game due to his on ice performance.

 

[SenzZen]

Their value now, or in 2012?

 

[LetsGoBLUES91]

If you retained a bit on Sobotka you could probably net a 2nd or a decent prospect out of a playoff team if he doesn't suck ass in Buffalo. Berglund? Why are you trading him? Don't trade good centers. You'll never get them back.

A good center? He’s a bad left winger.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Berglund is a fun player to watch when he's angry. With his shot and frame, he can be a pretty dominant player in the offensive zone in terms of puck possession and a scoring threat. But only when he's angry. I'm hoping that the trade (the first of his career) will light a fire in him. I actually expect him to have a career year this season and make the trade look more palatable.

Sobotka on the other hand....I think he was just angling for a big pay-day, and got it. He just lacks whatever fire it was that made him play like a little ball of hate before the KHL adventure. I think he'll be a replacement level player on Buffalo. Probably will end up injured half the season, just random prediction.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Berglund is a fun player to watch when he's angry. With his shot and frame, he can be a pretty dominant player in the offensive zone in terms of puck possession and a scoring threat. But only when he's angry. I'm hoping that the trade (the first of his career) will light a fire in him. I actually expect him to have a career year this season and make the trade look more palatable.

Sobotka on the other hand....I think he was just angling for a big pay-day, and got it. He just lacks whatever fire it was that made him play like a little ball of hate before the KHL adventure. I think he'll be a replacement level player on Buffalo. Probably will end up injured half the season, just random prediction.

Uninspired Berglund is the worst player to watch in the league. Big slow posseses puck well but has absolutely 0 playmaking ability. Therefore he skates around with the puck and nothing happens for his whole shift.