So uh.. this year Crosby put himself in elite company..

[SidGenoMario]

>_>

So leading the league in goals is obviously a pretty tough task, but so is finishing top 2 in assists.. Crosby led in goals this year, and he has finished 2nd in assists twice, as well as finishing #1 in assists per game in a separate season. Pretty impressive, but to finish THAT high in the leaderboards, for goal scoring AND playmaking, more historic than people are giving him credit for..

if you go back to 1960, look at every #1 goal scorer, right from Sid and Stamkos through all the generational talents to our friend Bobby Hull.. only 5 of those goal scoring leaders have a #2 assist finish to go with it. Those players are 66 + 99 + Howe, of course, with Lafleur, and Esposito.

Pretty elite company. And you look at people who finished #1 in assists per game and led the league in goals as well, since 1960? It's the same people, minus Gordie Howe.

So.. yeah.. Crosby = Godly. Just felt like getting this out there.

Click to read more...

 

[seventieslord]

No doubt, Crosby is building up a resume of regular season accomplishments for the ages.

And, he's proving that he saves his best for the big games too.

 

[Blades of Glory]

You won't find many of us who will argue that Crosby isn't well on his way to a top 20 career. I don't think he can breach the top ten, but considering he's only 22, you never know.

 

[SidGenoMario]

This just seems more impressive to me as I read over my post..

In the past 50 years, only a small handful of people have been as elite in the 2 areas of offense as this kid has.

And not to take away anything from legendary HoFers, but Espo had arguably the best player of all-time to leech points off of, Crosby has Pascal Dupuis.. and Lafleur played on teams with like 8-10 HoFers, Crosby might potentially be playing with 1.

 

[Steve]

No doubt, Crosby is building up a resume of regular season accomplishments for the ages.

And, he's proving that he saves his best for the big games too.

Agreed! He's really making his case as the best player in the world. He's made good strides with cutting out the complaining, still a work in progress but his respect from other fans will come. (I mean when he's not wearing a Canada jersey, b/c it's clear he's a god when that jersey is on)

 

[Blades of Glory]

This just seems more impressive to me as I read over my post..

In the past 50 years, only a small handful of people have been as elite in the 2 areas of offense as this kid has.

And not to take away anything from legendary HoFers, but Espo had arguably the best player of all-time to leech points off of, Crosby has Pascal Dupuis.. and Lafleur played on teams with like 8-10 HoFers, Crosby might potentially be playing with 1.

Lafleur never had much in terms of elite forward talent around him. Those Montreal teams were built around their defense and goaltending, and Lafleur was their only real offensive star.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Another interesting stat: Crosby is now tied with Grezky for the lead in career playoff points by a 22 year old. Let's see how far he can extend that lead this year.

Link

 

[Big Phil]

This just seems more impressive to me as I read over my post..

In the past 50 years, only a small handful of people have been as elite in the 2 areas of offense as this kid has.

And not to take away anything from legendary HoFers, but Espo had arguably the best player of all-time to leech points off of, Crosby has Pascal Dupuis.. and Lafleur played on teams with like 8-10 HoFers, Crosby might potentially be playing with 1.

That's the f-word IMO. Rob Brown was a leech. Even to an extent was John Leclair. Not Phil Esposito, he scored over 700 career NHL goals and was a HHOFer who did NOT need help to score goals. In 1969 he had 126 points by far the best in the NHL. Orr had 64 points. I fail to see how he leeched off of him. Read the Espo thread on this board and you'll get a better idea about him.

Espo should be penalized no more than Crosby should be because he is playing with Malkin, linemate or not.

 

[Canadiens1958]

Forgetting...........

Lafleur never had much in terms of elite forward talent around him. Those Montreal teams were built around their defense and goaltending, and Lafleur was their only real offensive star.

Forgetting Shutt, Cournoyer who made the HHOF for their offensive contributions

 

[Big Phil]

You won't find many of us who will argue that Crosby isn't well on his way to a top 20 career. I don't think he can breach the top ten, but considering he's only 22, you never know.

By projection I certainly have him in the top 10 at the very minimum. I think its clear we are seeing this generations best player and he could have his 2nd Cup and Hart trophy before he is 23 years old.

Right now I can see a career that can surpass the likes of Hull, Richard, Esposito, Mikita, Morenz and Beliveau who is personally at #5 for me. I can see him sitting at #5 by the end of his career and be behind only the "big 4" in hockey history. Anyone who has watched him should not have a problem picturing that possibility

 

[hfboardsuser]

Anyone who has watched him should not have a problem picturing that possibility

To put him in that territory, he'd need to be the games undisputed best player- not center, player- for the majority of the next ten years. He's already been in the NHL for five years and has only been the best statistically once in that time frame- 2006-07, his sophomore year. He hasn't even been a 1st or 2nd team AST selection since then:

2005-06: Thornton/Staal
2007-08: Thornton/Malkin
2008-09: Datsyuk/Malkin

He'll get another this year for sure, but the gap between he and the two other Eastern Conference candidates (Backstrom, Stamkos) isn't all that large.

Obviously, it's a silly debate to have this early, but in short, no, I don't think he projects anywhere close to the top ten or even twenty players all-time.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Lafleur never had much in terms of elite forward talent around him. Those Montreal teams were built around their defense and goaltending, and Lafleur was their only real offensive star.

What Crosby wouldn't give to have Shutt and Lemaire to work with instead of Kunitz and Guerin. Not that Kunitz hasn't been an asset to the line.

The only star player in the league that has less to work with at even strength is Malkin.

 

[Infinite Vision*]

To put him in that territory, he'd need to be the games undisputed best player- not center, player- for the majority of the next ten years. He's already been in the NHL for five years and has only been the best statistically once in that time frame- 2006-07, his sophomore year. He hasn't even been a 1st or 2nd team AST selection since then:

2005-06: Thornton/Staal
2007-08: Thornton/Malkin
2008-09: Datsyuk/Malkin

He'll get another this year for sure, but the gap between he and the two other Eastern Conference candidates (Backstrom, Stamkos) isn't all that large.

Obviously, it's a silly debate to have this early, but in short, no, I don't think he projects anywhere close to the top ten or even twenty players all-time.

Is that so? See me in 5 years. I bet you that even by then, he'll be unanimously a top 20 player of all-time.

 

[lextune]

Another interesting stat: Crosby is now tied with Grezky for the lead in career playoff points by a 22 year old. Let's see how far he can extend that lead this year.

Link

I've been saying it for awhile now; anyone who has watched the kid the past two post-seasons and doesn't think he is the greatest player in the world is watching the wrong sport.

 

[Jarick]

I love that every time a thread like this comes up, he keeps pushing himself closer and closer to greatness. That's great for hockey...to have another superstar who's living up to his billing and really fantastic for those of us who weren't around to see Gretzky in his prime.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

>_>

So leading the league in goals is obviously a pretty tough task, but so is finishing top 2 in assists.. Crosby led in goals this year, and he has finished 2nd in assists twice, as well as finishing #1 in assists per game in a separate season. Pretty impressive, but to finish THAT high in the leaderboards, for goal scoring AND playmaking, more historic than people are giving him credit for..

if you go back to 1960, look at every #1 goal scorer, right from Sid and Stamkos through all the generational talents to our friend Bobby Hull.. only 5 of those goal scoring leaders have a #2 assist finish to go with it. Those players are 66 + 99 + Howe, of course, with Lafleur, and Esposito.

Pretty elite company. And you look at people who finished #1 in assists per game and led the league in goals as well, since 1960? It's the same people, minus Gordie Howe.

So.. yeah.. Crosby = Godly. Just felt like getting this out there.

Anyone know who has done this the other way? #1 in assists with a top 2 in goals? The 5 players you listed have done it, and just off the top of my head I'm pretty sure Mikita and Jagr have done this 2-3 times each. Is there anyone else?

 

[revolverjgw]

Lafleur never had much in terms of elite forward talent around him. Those Montreal teams were built around their defense and goaltending, and Lafleur was their only real offensive star.

Maybe not "elite", but definitely great players far beyond what Crosby has to work with, and also guys perfectly suited to work with Lafleur.

If Crosby ever gets two great wingers that are perfectly tailored to his style, man, he'd blow the league out. Won't happen with Malkin on his team, but I'm sure he's fine with trading individual dominance for a winning one-two punch.

 

[unknown33]

To put him in that territory, he'd need to be the games undisputed best player- not center, player- for the majority of the next ten years.

When were Hull, Richard, Esposito, Mikita, or Beliveau the undisputed best players in the league? Ever? Let alone for 10 years?
Not even Gretzky was undisputed the best player for a whole decade.

 

[Masao]

Crosby winning the Rocket this year surprised me a lot, I've always seen him more as a playmaker. Still he wouldn't have done it had Ovechkin not missed as many games, but whatever he still did it.

I want to see him winning the Art Ross again though. Can't wait to see how good he'll be at age 26-27

 

[Big Phil]

When were Hull, Richard, Esposito, Mikita, or Beliveau the undisputed best players in the league? Ever? Let alone for 10 years?
Not even Gretzky was undisputed the best player for a whole decade.

Exactly. Those players had a season or maybe more when they were the best but that's it. Espo always had Orr ahead of him and save for 1969 there wasn't a year where he was best in the game. Mikita and Hull flip flopped a lot in the 1960s and even Howe was ahead of them at times. Richard almost always was behind Howe and has the mid to late '40s where he can claim to be the best. Beliveau has 1956 and maybe another one or two years.

The main thing each of them had was that if they weren't the best player in the game they were the 2nd best, or maybe 3rd best. They also won a lot, were always high in the scoring race and have a lot of individual hardware. All were stellar in the playoffs, some better than others, but all were still great.

Not sure how we can't lump Crosby into that mix based on projection at least.

 

[Big Phil]

He hasn't even been a 1st or 2nd team AST selection since then:

2005-06: Thornton/Staal
2007-08: Thornton/Malkin
2008-09: Datsyuk/Malkin

Obviously, it's a silly debate to have this early, but in short, no, I don't think he projects anywhere close to the top ten or even twenty players all-time.

To be fair he outscored both Staal and Datsyuk in those respective years and still wasn't a 2nd team all-star. He was injured for 30 games in 2008, not gonna happen there and I'll bet Thornton would trade his 2nd team all-star in '08 for Crosby's playoff run.

Granted Crosby has a lot to accomplish because the game has produced a ton of players. On the surface maybe it is too early but with what we know right now 5 years into his career I am surprised you think he can't rank among the top 20 when all is said and done. We're getting into Trottier/Sakic/Yzerman territory and Crosby's first 5 years in the league beat either of them clean IMO. It isn't outlandish to project further

 

[Internet Explorer]

Wasn't he the 3rd fastest player to reach 500 pts in 5 seasons behind Lemieux and Gretz>?

Something like that.

 

[Heat McManus]

Doesn't Crosby put himself in elite company every year?

As much as I hate him as a divisional and national team rival, the kid is amazing to watch.


And he's only 23.....Jesus.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

Doesn't Crosby put himself in elite company every year?

As much as I hate him as a divisional and national team rival, the kid is amazing to watch.


And he's only 23.....Jesus.

22 actually....he'll be 23 on August 7th.

 

[Pandemic]

I thought he was already in elite company