So still think we wont move a D man?

[BringBackLibertys]

Here is what we have today:

Left Right

McD G
Staal Klein
Skjei McI
Holden Clendening
Graves Paliotta
Summers Andersson

I get that I went deep into the prospects as well, but I am just trying to point out that we could let one go from each side and still survive (we wont be challenging for the cup, but it's not like we would have with no trades). I think we will see more moves this summer, so for the impatient among you, chill.

Click to read more...

 

[Beacon]

Dump Staal and Girardi. We won't be good anyway, let them go elsewhere.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

I think Staal gets moved before the season starts but it may not happen for a while. Teams still waiting on a couple more minor "dominoes" in Vesey (Aug 15th) and what happens with Barrie/Duchene and a few other rumored names out there.

I don't think we signed Holden to be the 7th D.

Skjei isn't going anywhere, so unless McDonagh gets traded in some massive blockbuster, Staal will be the odd man out.

I could see him going to DAL, MIN, or even COL.

 

[Leetch3]

the last 5 will be in hartford...ahl depth signing don't impact the plans for the top 6 one way or the other

 

[FLYLine27*]

Most of them are in HFD...

 

[BringBackLibertys]

I am surprised you guys feel that way. I think Staal and Klein get moved for picks and prospects, and you see Holden and Clendening playing, unless a D comes back in a trade.

 

[eco's bones]

I don't know how we're dumping Staal and Girardi without buying them out. And buying them out would be ouch!--that ****ing hurts.

Both have NMC's--they'd have to waive the NMC's to be traded. They'd have to waive the NMC's even to go down to Hartford. It's possible you could convince either or both to waive if you pressured them enough but you'd still have to find them a new home they'd be happy in--with a team that would be happy to have them. I don't think either of them would want to go to a team that sucks. So......

Girardi's NMC runs out after 2016-17. There's a possibility that Las Vegas will take him if he's exposed to the expansion draft--keeping in mind that possibility is not the same thing as certainty. Buying him out next year would be a lot less ouchable in cap terms than buying him out this year. It's still not going to be great but the pain will be a lot less.

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

I don't know how we're dumping Staal and Girardi without buying them out. And buying them out would be ouch!--that ****ing hurts.

Both have NMC's--they'd have to waive the NMC's to be traded. They'd have to waive the NMC's even to go down to Hartford. It's possible you could convince either or both to waive if you pressured them enough but you'd still have to find them a new home they'd be happy in--with a team that would be happy to have them. I don't think either of them would want to go to a team that sucks. So......

Girardi's NMC runs out after 2016-17. There's a possibility that Las Vegas will take him if he's exposed to the expansion draft--keeping in mind that possibility is not the same thing as certainty. Buying him out next year would be a lot less ouchable in cap terms than buying him out this year. It's still not going to be great but the pain will be a lot less.

Girardi's NMC runs throughout his deal but his NTC becomes limited where he can submit a list of X amount of teams hed accept a trade to.

Unless he agreed to waive his NMC he would be required to be protected, along with Staal.

 

[eco's bones]

I am surprised you guys feel that way. I think Staal and Klein get moved for picks and prospects, and you see Holden and Clendening playing, unless a D comes back in a trade.

Klein--maybe but if it's picks and prospects--it's because the Rangers have a **** season and he gets moved around the March trade deadline. Next year's draft picks can't play defense for you now--Klein can. Staal and his No Movement Clause for the next two seasons--I don't think he's going anywhere.

 

[eco's bones]

Girardi's NMC runs throughout his deal but his NTC becomes limited where he can submit a list of X amount of teams hed accept a trade to.

Unless he agreed to waive his NMC he would be required to be protected, along with Staal.

His NMC segues into an NTC. Then it's not an NMC anymore. It's what happened to Rick Nash. The first few years were NMC and then it became an NTC. There was the question of whether Girardi's NMC ended last year or after next year. I don't think that question was ever satisfactorily answered--so maybe it is a NTC now. You can move an NTC player fairly easily at least if there are other teams that would want him---but generally speaking the only time NMC players get moved is when things get really ugly and the player is fine with getting out. For both Staal and Girardi the Rangers are the only team they've known. They both like being Rangers. Maybe if the fans really got on their ***** like they use to in the old days......?

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

His NMC segues into an NTC. Then it's not an NMC anymore. It's what happened to Rick Nash. The first few years were NMC and then it became an NTC. There was the question of whether Girardi's NMC ended last year or after next year. I don't think that question was ever satisfactorily answered--so maybe it is a NTC now. You can move an NTC player fairly easily at least if there are other teams that would want him---but generally speaking the only time NMC players get moved is when things get really ugly and the player is fine with getting out. For both Staal and Girardi the Rangers are the only team they've known. They both like being Rangers. Maybe if the fans really got on their ***** like they use to in the old days......?

I wish this was the case but the NMC runs throughout this has been an on going debate the last few weeks but im,pretty sure it's confirmed.

http://www.generalfanager.com/players/1376

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

It's been confirmed that G's NMC is through out the contract. He can be traded to a list of 15 teams next summer, but can't be waived or sent down without his approval.

 

[Beacon]

Vegas could take Girardi if the cap goes up big, something approaching $80. The sudden freeing up of cap space would cause a skyrocketing of UFA salaries and we already have "standard" 7-year deals for anyone decent, so a team may prefer to take G for 3 years at $5.5 than give a second-pair defenseman a 7 year deal for $7 a year. That seems like a huge amount, but only because in recent years the cap has been steady: first because of the lockout, then because collapsing oil prices killed the Canadian dollar. If every team suddenly opens up $6-7 in cap space, there will be so much competition for players, supply-and-demand will cause a huge skyrocketing of salaries.

Barring that, G won't get picked up.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Still don't think one is moved.

 

[BroadwayStorm]

What if the corpse of Girardi has healed. What if last season was an injury plagued aberration. What if he returns to a serviceable form after healing in the offseason? What if... what if...

 

[Dijock94]

What if the corpse of Girardi has healed. What if last season was an injury plagued aberration. What if he returns to a serviceable form after healing in the offseason? What if... what if...

Actually had this thought in the back of my mind all along. What if he really was just playing on a fractured knee cap most of the year

 

[The Gloaming]

And what would his excuse for 14-15 be? Or the 14 SCF?

 

[eco's bones]

If I'm remembering correctly Girardi came out of the 2014-15 playoffs with a sprained MCL and a badly swollen ankle. It was the second year in a row the Rangers had gone deep into the playoffs and there wasn't in either season a lot of time for rest and recovery. The story as the the beginning of 2015-16 was he was still banged up but was going to play anyway. They sat him out of the first three preseason games. He had a slow start--had a period where he started improving and then ****ed up his kneecap---and between him, the Rangers training staff, Ulf and AV--whether it was all of them or some of them approving--they couldn't/wouldn't let him take the time off to get it to heal--they couldn't take that chance to let them see what Dylan McIlrath could do--they had to continue to play him on his bum knee. To me it may have been the most inexplicable situation in a year of full of inexplicable decision making.

It wasn't absolutely disastrous in the sense they still made the playoffs without that much of a struggle. When you have two out of six D (Boyle and Yandle) you're not comfortable at all with on the penalty kill that's not good. IMO all a team's defensemen should be able to kill penalties. When you only trust 4 of them to PK and one or two are playing banged up---you're kind of screwed. The quality of our PK killing forwards nosedived last year after Hagelin went to Anaheim. Losing Brian Boyle one year and Carl Hagelin the next--our two best penalty killing forwards---the decline of Dominic Moore and there you go.

Anyway I recently finished re-reading Larry Sloman's Thin Ice which was about the Rangers 1979-80 team. The 1978-79 team had gone to the Stanley Cup finals and had been hit by a rash of injuries--particularly damaging a knee injury to John Davidson who played on it anyway and lost to Montreal. The team had built up a lot of camaraderie to get all the way to the finals but in 1979-80 comes the hangover--a bunch of questionable coaching and general manager decisions--a bunch of players being moved on and the players sometimes fighting amongst each other and breaking off into cliques. I don't know about the last part but I think there are some parallels between the 1979-80 Rangers team and the 2015-16 Rangers team. Between one season and another we went from a team that had its act together and played as a team to a malfunctioning team that always made the wrong choice and couldn't get out of its own way.

If there's one player I miss more than any other that we've lost in the last three years---it's Hagelin. Not appreciated enough for all the little things he could do.

 

[Savant]

They will try.

 

[rangers1314]

Market for Staal will be coming together now after yesterdays madness. Once Demers signs, I'm imagine there will be more than a few teams with significant interest in Klein. If there aren't already.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I wish this was the case but the NMC runs throughout this has been an on going debate the last few weeks but im,pretty sure it's confirmed.

http://www.generalfanager.com/players/1376

Yes, much to my frustration, the reporters and even GeneralFanager and CapFriendly appear to get this wrong with their terminology. Tawnos and I both looked into this issue, and it seems pretty clear that you can have either a NMC or a NTC, and either one can be modified, typically to allow for limited trading.

The difference is that with a NTC, you can still be demoted, waived, exposed to an expansion draft, etc. regardless of whether it is "full" or modified; whereas with a NMC, you CANNOT be demoted, waived, exposed to an expansion draft, etc., EVEN if it is modified to allow for some form of trading. (Interestingly, however, the various sites ALSO show listings for M-NMC, which leads me to believe that there may be modified versions of NMCs that allow for, say, waiving, but not demoting - though I should point out that I don't actually know this for a fact, and am only offering conjecture on this point.)

The problem is that these knuckleheads reporting on the contractual details for some reason have difficulty understanding the basic structural differences above and insist on mangling their descriptions of a NMC that allows for limited trading by calling it a "full NMC with a limited NTC" or variations thereof.

We'll never know for certain without seeing the actual paperwork, but after wading through how the sites list him plus all the various reports in the press (and then using basic deductive reasoning), it seems pretty clear that what Girardi has is a full NMC in the first three years of his contract that then becomes modified to allow for limited trades (but still prevents him from being demoted, waived or exposed to expansion) in the last three years.

The interesting thing is that Staal's contract continues to be listed as a full NMC in the first three years and then a modified NTC in the last three. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we learn sometime in the next year or two that GeneralFanager/CapFriendly made the same mistake with him...

 

[rangers1314]

Yes, much to my frustration, the reporters and even GeneralFanager and CapFriendly appear to get this wrong with their terminology. Tawnos and I both looked into this, and it seems pretty clear that you can have either a NMC or a NTC, and either one can be modified, typically to allow for limited trading.

The difference is that with a NTC, you can still be demoted, waived, exposed to an expansion draft, etc. regardless of whether it is "full" or modified. With a NMC, you CANNOT be demoted, waived, exposed to an expansion draft, etc., even if it is modified to allow for some form of trading. (Interestingly, however, the various sites ALSO show listings for M-NMC, which leads me to believe that there may be modified versions of NMCs that allow for, say, waiving, but not demoting - though I should point out that I don't actually know this for a fact, and am only offering conjecture on this point.)

The problem is that these knuckleheads reporting on the contractual details for some reason have difficulty understanding the basic structural differences above and insist on mangling a NMC that allows for limited trading by calling it a "full NMC with a limited NTC" or variations thereof.

We'll never know for certain without seeing the actual paperwork, but after wading through how the sites list him plus all the various reports in the press (and then using basic deductive reasoning) it seems pretty clear that what Girardi has is a full NMC in the first three years of his contract and then becomes modified to allow for limited trades (but still prevents him from being demoted, waived or exposed to expansion) in the last three years.

The interesting thing is that Staal's contract continues to be listed as a full NMC in the first three years and then a modified NTC in the last three. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we learn sometime in the next year or two that GeneralFanager/CapFriendly made the same mistake with him...

I believe that LB reached out to Girardi's agent directly and was told basically the same as the above. Why people continue to debate b/c of whats on one of the sites is nuts. Brooks literally copy and pasted the response from Girardi's agent into his column.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I believe that LB reached out to Girardi's agent directly and was told basically the same as the above. Why people continue to debate b/c of whats on one of the sites is nuts. Brooks literally copy and pasted the response from Girardi's agent into his column.

He did, but the problem with the agent's response was that it wasn't QUITE specific enough to remove all doubt. He said something like "he has a full no-move in the first three years and then can be traded to a limited number of teams in the last three".

There's unfortunately ambiguity there - I very strongly suspect that what that meant was that "he has a full NMC in the first three years that then becomes an NMC that allows for limited trading in the last three" (especially given the todo GeneralFanager and CapFriendly made about saying "whoops, Girardi actually has a NMC throughout"); however, it is POSSIBLE that what it meant was "he has a full NMC in the first three years that then becomes a NTC that allows for limited trading in the last three" (which is how the sites continue to list Staal - and which, in turn, is also why I think we may see an update on HIS contract sometime in the future).

 

[NYRFANMANI]

I'll keep repeating myself. Ain't **** gonna happen!

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

UPDATE: it appears as if CapFriendly, which I already liked better because they basically just recreated the look and feel of CapGeek and also have better responsive web design, no longer goes with the stupid "NTC within an NMC" description, and now simply lists players either as having "NMC: [clause details]" or "NTC: [clause details]".

Much better. Definitely my go-to site from now on.

EDIT: Although if you click on the "Contract Clause" tab on the main team page, it does still use the "Modified NTC, NMC" notation. They need to update that.