OT: So How Are You Guys Holding Up?

[Mr Kot]

So this may be a strange thread, but I am a natural worry-wart and the rising gas prices seems to be putting a massive damper on most people's living, especially those with no means of self-preservation (I.E no room to grow own food or hunt). I have begun looking into fishing again and learning how to cultivate wild plants and berries. Logic says this won't last forever, but I can't shake the feeling that this is going to get worse in the coming years. Food prices, especially for our neighbors to the south, have been skyrocketing and that phenomena may come here soon (or already has, depending on where you live).

What I want to know is, how are you guys dealing with this downturn? Probably better than I am hopefully. Sorry for the thread, this may be me just coping right now. Luckily, I am moving back home to a rural area and will probably get started on a personal farm or something. Also, back to work as well, so more savings if I need it to take care of my family.

Have you talked to any farmers, or are a farmer yourself? How bad do you think the rising cost of farming will affect food in the coming years? Once again, probably worrying harder than I should, but I want to talk about this.

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[Oilhawks]

So this may be a strange thread, but I am a natural worry-wart and the rising gas prices seems to be putting a massive damper on most people's living, especially those with no means of self-preservation (I.E no room to grow own food or hunt). I have begun looking into fishing again and learning how to cultivate wild plants and berries. Logic says this won't last forever, but I can't shake the feeling that this is going to get worse in the coming years. Food prices, especially for our neighbors to the south, have been skyrocketing and that phenomena may come here soon (or already has, depending on where you live).

What I want to know is, how are you guys dealing with this downturn? Probably better than I am hopefully. Sorry for the thread, this may be me just coping right now. Luckily, I am moving back home to a rural area and will probably get started on a personal farm or something. Also, back to work as well, so more savings if I need it to take care of my family.

Have you talked to any farmers, or are a farmer yourself? How bad do you think the rising cost of farming will affect food in the coming years? Once again, probably worrying harder than I should, but I want to talk about this.

Had a rough year last year for income (worst year since finishing post-secondary) as my industry got hit pretty hard by fluctuations in the market and made about a third of what I normally have the past decade. The silver lining was it helped to prepare by cutting back on discretionary spending heavily since last year. We've already been careful about spending on food and seldom eat at restaurants. Growing tomatoes as we do every year and looking at converting part of the back yard into a garden. It helps.

This seems like a strange situation overall, while it seems like it could be "stagflation" like the 70s, it could also bounce back as early as next year. I have more to say about this but it's not appropriate to discuss on these boards.

 

[ThreeOfAPerfectPair]

Thinking about getting into farming.

 

[Mr Kot]

Had a rough year last year for income (worst year since finishing post-secondary) as my industry got hit pretty hard by fluctuations in the market and made about a third of what I normally have the past decade. The silver lining was it helped to prepare by cutting back on discretionary spending heavily since last year. We've already been careful about spending on food and seldom eat at restaurants. Growing tomatoes as we do every year and looking at converting part of the back yard into a garden. It helps.

This seems like a strange situation overall, while it seems like it could be "stagflation" like the 70s, it could also bounce back as early as next year. I have more to say about this but it's not appropriate to discuss on these boards.

Yeah that is a good point. It's been a great deal of time since society had such a rough stretch. Maybe something like this will convince people to be more frugal. We have definitely skewed a bit too far into consumer territory lately and have produced very little.

Also, yeah, I am tempted to say other things too, more political things, but it's not appropriate. Just a thread to let off some of our woes.

 

[Porkleaker]

I just went fishing yesterday, caught 3 nice large mouth bass amd filleted them up, going again shortly it's 1/4 to 5am lol. Have gardens and also a bunch of berry bushes all over. Plus there are deer everywhere too. Lots of food around here! Just go outside and there's your grocery store.

 

[oilfan96]

I left Canada months ago tbh. Writing is on the wall at this point, no reason to stay as a young and educated person

 

[Zenos]

Just a question - how old are you?

I ask, because some of the older posters on here (which I maybe fall in to) have been through “this” before. We’ve experienced the ups and the downs. Especially in a boom - bust sort of place like Alberta.

But I sense that younger people are particularly gloomy about the future. And personally, I don’t think things like social media are helping.

 

[JordanGalhanth]

I'm doing the best I can. Add me to the list of those who have left Canada.

I actually left almost three years ago in 2019, and am I ever thankful I did. While COVID certainly affected life here, our local shutdown measures were nowhere near as draconian as what was going on in Canada and other parts of the world.

Overall...I think we can all agree that even if all these politicians did "protect" us from the virus, they sure didn't protect the mental and emotional well-being of their constituents.

 

[oilfan96]

I'm 26. My parents have a couple of businesses in Alberta and they often talk about how different this recession is going to be from other ones. The future of Canada genuinely worries me, best I can do is build up a nice nest egg here in Denmark and become self sufficient. Thinking of doing beekeeping soon as well as getting some chickens, and a couple of cows. Got the potatoes and some other veggies in the work. Hope everything will be ok in the near future, but I'm preparing for the worst.

 

[BudBundy]

I’m doing alright. I went through some lean years, 2015 to last year, as my income is somewhat oilfield dependent. Im lucky though. I am old enough that I bought a home when things were still reasonable in 2001. I had been saving up for a long time so my debt levels were low and still are. I’m in my peak earning years and am doing pretty well.

Im worried for younger folks. Im old enough to know what high interest rates do to people who are highly leveraged. My family almost lost the farm in the Trudeau 1.0 20% rate times so I learned young to fly low to the ground. Interesting rates have been held artificially low and so house prices and debt levels are really high. Too high. At the municipal level, lots of barriers are thrown up to new housing and developments. Infrastructure is incredibly hard to build. Politicians have been vilifying and hampering oil and gas development to polish their “green” credentials but have been ignoring the fact that replacement technology either doesn’t exist or is not anywhere near scaled up enough to replace it. So everything gets more expensive. And now they’ve piled on so much debt, our take-home pay has never been lower and will get worse.

In times like these just stick to the basics. If you don’t need it, don’t buy it. Save as much as you can. Take advantage of TFSAs and RRSPs if you are able. When the coming recession happens, people that have cash will be able to snap up bargains.
I’ve never seen times quite like these but we’ll get through.

 

[tardigrade81]

Me and the fam are going into the hole a little bit each month. It’s rough. Cost of living is just ridiculous. I have a decent job with the city that pays around 50 grand and my wife works admin for Loraas disposal company making ok money. We have a very cheap life style. But just paying a vehicle payment, gas, mortgage and bills and daycare is enough to sink us.

The world is crazy expensive. My mom told me how my grandpa used to support a family of 5 off of a blue collar wage job at the Sears loading dock. We have basically cut out all fast food lately. Thank god it’s BBQ season. My lunches at work consist of sandwiches or beans and weiners lmao. I might sell my son on the black market as well depending how much they offer

 

[Stoneman89]

I'd love to comment, but since politics play a large part and will eventually work it's way into this, I'd better not. Just had post in another thread shot down because I brought up the P word.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Just a question - how old are you?

I ask, because some of the older posters on here (which I maybe fall in to) have been through “this” before. We’ve experienced the ups and the downs. Especially in a boom - bust sort of place like Alberta.

But I sense that younger people are particularly gloomy about the future. And personally, I don’t think things like social media are helping.

We have, and we haven't. I have this discussion with my financial analyst almost every time. Keeps showing me nice charts of stock market growth being undeterred through time. Ups and downs but constant progress. They never go back to the great depression and stock market crash. Neither have any of us experienced that. But I listened enough to my parents who did. I never leverage my investments to the degree the broker would say. I always have a nest egg in uber conservative investments. Never want to be in that situation to lose it all. but parents also experienced between wars German inflation first hand where money was just printed, and wasn't worth toilet paper eventually. People lost everything. The only value to be had was food in the ground which became the new market.

The reality is we could lose everything, anybody could. The thing is we shouldn't trust the markets, all the dot coms and the housing lending fiascos taught us this. They're there to make the markets much more speculative and leverage than they ought to be, with much more violent peaks and valleys so some can play market games. but this services coked out wall street more than it does basic investors. For so many decades now the markets have been much more unstable, seemingly, than they ideally would be. That crypto got in there to be the latest market disaster and with more leverage than it ought to have is the latest bit of wild west malfeasance.

The markets don't really deserve my assets and money, but in a next to zero interest bonds, GIC's, etc world there hasn't been much option. Its incredibly sad that the markets have been on yet another 14mth sinker. So that anybody using the money stuff in mattress approach is way ahead of the curve..

Anyway we're Ok, but like others have expressed I really worry for younger folk. The markets, the economy, the leveraged Real Estate have shut you out. I never thought uber low interest rates were helping with housing costs. I was always of the view that they were aiding and abetting huge housing sticker price through the advent of uber locost mortgage rates. Now we're seeing some of the other, higher rates reducing housing sticker prices. I wonder if I was wrong.

 

[MessierII]

I left Canada months ago tbh. Writing is on the wall at this point, no reason to stay as a young and educated person

Where did you go?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Everything is crazy expensive here. As a farmer I can tell you that prices will indeed be going up. The cost of feed and really everything that you need to farm whether it be livestock or crops is going up because of the ridiculous fuel costs. Higher fuel = higher costs for goods to manufacture and transport, etc. The problem is that we haven't even seen the worst of this recession IMO. If things continue through all of next year or beyond it is going to get very ugly. There have been instances of retirees here being told to move because their apartments rent is being doubled to $2K for a 1 bedroom. These are people that live on a fixed income with virtually no way to close that gap. Too damn much greed out there and like always it hits the lower and the ever shrinking middle class the hardest.

 

[29Beast97Mode]

Well I'm 27 and have a massive amount of student debt and I don't even use my degree. My one saving grace has been that I dont really spend money: am single with no kids, never eat fast food, and rent a room instead of paying for an apartment. Even being frugal I'm feeling the pinch recently and I don't even drive so I don't pay for gas. Gas here in van has been at least 2.10 for a long time. I take the skytrain lol. Anyway I've pretty much come to terms with the fact that I'll probably never be able to afford a house, and I'm not even sure I'll be able to retire.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So seriously, my plan, for younger folk is to explore self reliance, if you're into that. Buy a country lot, learn to build a log or some such cabin, build small as possible, with fireplace and root cellar, make sure you have a treed lot, you don't need much area, but arable, and have a self sustaining farm. Market your excess produce for money. Go out to the country. Learn also to work with wood, maybe have a mini mill. Make things our of wood or just sell excess chopped firewood. (easy enough to do and at attractive prices)

I'm confused often when people will plunk down huge money for a city lot or house when you can get one for so much cheaper out in the country somewhere. For instance I have this convo with Rig workers, Fort Mc workers all the time. They drive hundreds of miles back and forth to Edmonton when they could instead buy a house somewhere in some small town an hour or more away from their work, and for around 25% of what an Edmonton house costs. The response always is "nah, i gotta live in the city" Its the wrong answer financially speaking. Especially with out of control gas costs. Alberta has so many small towns on sale. So many acreages or cabins on sale. So many opportunities at a fraction of a cost of city living. All it requires is learning how to be able, and somewhat self sufficient.

Finally so many people I've known are Teachers. They get out of school, struggle for years to get a position. Often only get substitute positions. But all the time Teaching positions in more remote areas begging for full time teachers. Same answer. "Oh but I gotta live in the city" Why?

Do what you have to do to earn a living and go to where the best opportunity is. Thats my bit of advice. Take how you will.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

So seriously, my plan, for younger folk is to explore self reliance, if you're into that. Buy a country lot, learn to build a log or some such cabin, build small as possible, with fireplace and root cellar, make sure you have a treed lot, you don't need much area, but arable, and have a self sustaining farm. Market your excess produce for money. Go out to the country.

I'm confused often when people will plunk down huge money for a city lot or house when you can get one for so much cheaper out in the country somewhere. For instance I have this convo with Rig workers, Fort Mc workers all the time. They drive hundreds of miles back and forth to Edmonton when they could instead buy a house somewhere in some small town an hour or more away from their work, and for around 25% of what an Edmonton house costs. The response always is "nah, i gotta live in the city" Its the wrong answer financially speaking. Especially with out of control gas costs. Alberta has so many small towns on sale. So many acreages or cabins on sale. So many opportunities at a fraction of a cost of city living. All it requires is learning how to be able, and somewhat self sufficient.

Finally so many people I've known are Teachers. They get out of school, struggle for years to get a position. Often only get substitute positions. But all the time Teaching positions in more remote areas begging for full time teachers. Same answer. "Oh but I gotta live in the city" Why?

Do what you have to do to earn a living and go to where the best opportunity is. Thats my bit of advice. Take how you will.

Very solid points. Is the convenience of living in the city worth the added expense for everyone? If someone follows your advice and finds a good job, they could retire younger for instance.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I’m doing okay. Really worried for mortgage renewal in 2 years. We bought before the pandemic and the rising interest rates worry me. Might have to get a second job but I’m doing better than a lot of people so can’t complain too much

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'll tell a story now. Kind of a parable, but true. One guy I've known for decades, same field as me, rather than slog it out in the city he went out to work up north. Way north. NWT, Nunavut. Remote communities. Where he was the only counselor, family worker, addictions counselor, child welfare worker in hundreds of miles. He worked tirelessly, endlessly. The longer he worked in remote communities the more trusted he was. He eventually ended up wearing so many hats in these communities, and getting paid for so many services that 15yrs in the digs and he could've retired. He had free room and board put up, just due to how much such services were required and appreciated. Didn't have to pay for anything and could have free dinner at anybodies place anytime if he wanted.

To top it off he came away with so much skills, so much work and life experience that he's sought after for the rest of his career. He's a fine broth of a Scottish lad that had all kinds of thirst for adventure, taking the path least travelled, and somebody I've learned from and called a friend. just a great individual. A throwback type.

I've seen others that went on to become therapists, Doctors, even a Psychiatrist. They kept going back to school. None of them had the same experiences as this guy or learned as much or are even as financially set as this fella is. For sure they don't have comparable memories.

Somehow that story fits here.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Finally so many people I've known are Teachers. They get out of school, struggle for years to get a position. Often only get substitute positions. But all the time Teaching positions in more remote areas begging for full time teachers. Same answer. "Oh but I gotta live in the city" Why?

Do what you have to do to earn a living and go to where the best opportunity is. Thats my bit of advice. Take how you will.

Mrs Fixed to Ruin is a teacher and got her foot in the door by teaching at a small rural school in the middle of nowhere. There are some challenges you wouldn't have in a city school but overall my wife would say it was a great experience. She was there for the first 5-6 years of her career.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

As a person that does planning and development for oil & gas infrastructure, i can say that we are paying the price for years and years of under investment in the sector. In 2014, everything came to a screeching halt when the price crashed. In 2018, things were picking up and were starting to see some new projects come to fruition. Then COVID happened and put everything on pause for another 18-24 months. Now we are in a massive deficit and we can't find the necessary pieces of the puzzle to keep things in control and keep up with demand.

Since last spring I've been getting completely obliterated at work. I usually do one or two big projects a year, now it's non stop and the projects are getting bigger in scope and size as well.

Every day is like being Ben Scrivens when he played the Sharks.

So yeah, i think it's going to get worse before it gets better. It's going to take time to steer this ship back in the right direction and all of us are going to suffer crazy high prices and shortages for awhile longer unfortunately.

PS. I'm on my lunch break at work right now.

 

[oilfan96]

Where did you go?

Denmark

 

[MessierII]

Denmark

How was the transition? I always felt if I left I would head for that part of the world.

 

[oilfan96]

How was the transition? I always felt if I left I would head for that part of the world.

It's been a pretty smooth transition honestly. Quality of life is insanely high here, and it brings me back to the early 2000s life in Canada. There is a strong sense of community amongst people here and it is one of the things that is dearly missed in Canada right now Imo.