So, honestly,where does Montreal over Washington rank in the past 2 decades?

[Blades of Glory]

I'm really interested in the HOH opinions on where this ranks among first-round upsets. For the record, I didn't have Washington making it past the second round, even during the season. But, I didn't think Montreal was going to score enough goals to win this. That said, I don't think it's at the top of the greatest upsets of all-time. The warning signs about Washington, at least for us objective fans, had existed for a long time. How many times have we seen a great offensive team and top seed bounced in the first round because their defense and goaltending was inferior to their opponents?

For some reason, this series reminded me of Quebec-Montreal in 1993; I know that Habs team was miles better than this one, but Quebec shared so many similarities with the 2010 Capitals. Amazing forward depth was their biggest advantage, but Montreal was superior behind the bench and most so in goal. Almost identical to this years matchup.

In the past 20 seasons, here are my top ten first round upsets (not including this one), in order:

San Jose over Detroit (94)
Edmonton over Dallas (97)
Anaheim over Detroit (03)
San Jose over St. Louis (00)
Minnesota over Colorado (03)
Edmonton over Detroit (06)
Edmonton over Colorado (98)
Los Angeles over Detroit (01)
Buffalo over Boston (93)

I might be missing an obvious one, so tell me if I am. But that's my list. Where do you think Montreal over Washington ranks? Does it enter the top ten? I don't think it enters my top five, but I want your opinions.

Click to read more...

 

[Blades of Glory]

I don't think anything will ever touch San Jose beating Detroit in 1994. A third year expansion team, one season removed from winning a horrific 11 games, facing a Detroit team with six 70 point scorers, including the Hart/Selke winner, a defense that included Coffey, Lidstrom, Konstaninov, and Mark Howe, albeit none of them were really in their prime. Detroit was supposed to waltz into the Stanley Cup Finals that year. Steve Yzerman's injury and Chris Osgood's terrible goaltending, including one of the biggest gaffes in recent memory, led to that shocking upset.

Has anyone yet figured out what Chris Osgood was aiming to do by weakly back-handing the puck off the boards, with three of his own players right next to him, in the third period of a 2-2 Game 7?

I think I can put this year's Montreal-Washington in the LA-Detroit and Buffalo-Boston category. The Sabres' annihilating Andy Moog has to rank as one of the most shocking things I've ever seen. Ray Bourque was uncharacteristically bad, and it blows my mind how Adam Oates can score 9 points in 4 games, yet be on the losing end of a sweep.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'm curious about this too.

I'm also curious as to how the current Washington team resembles the Oilers before they learned to win. The Oilers choked in the playoffs a few times too, right?

There are going to be calls to fire Boudreau I'm sure, but were there calls to fire Sather before the Oilers started winning?

 

[Blades of Glory]

I'm curious about this too.

I'm also curious as to how the current Washington team resembles the Oilers before they learned to win. The Oilers choked in the playoffs a few times too, right?

There are going to be calls to fire Boudreau I'm sure, but were there calls to fire Sather before the Oilers started winning?

Boudreau has been at the helm for 3 playoffs now, and the Capitals have lost in a Game 7 all three years, in one of the first two rounds (twice Round 1, once Round 2), to a lower-seeded team.

As for Sather and the Oilers' early playoff troubles, the Oilers didn't really take long to get to the top. Edmonton really broke out (in the regular season) in 1982, and of course, that's the famous Miracle in Manchester playoffs. But the next year, they rolled into the Cup Finals and I really don't think anyone was calling for Sather's head after losing to the battle-tested 3-time defending Stanley Cup champions. Needless to say, they didn't lose much after that year.

I didn't fault Boudreau in 2008 because it was Washington's first time in the playoffs. Last year, I started to wonder after the epically horrific defense and goaltending against Pittsburgh. But in year 3, again? I just don't like Boudreau's style of hockey. You're right on with the Oilers comparisons because Boudreau plays as identical a style to Sather's Oiler teams as I have seen in a long, long time. The difference is that Washington doesn't have Gretzky putting everything into the net and Grant Fuhr to bail them out in the rare event they didn't score.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Boudreau has been at the helm for 3 playoffs now, and the Capitals have lost in a Game 7 all three years, in one of the first two rounds (twice Round 1, once Round 2), to a lower-seeded team.

As for Sather and the Oilers' early playoff troubles, the Oilers didn't really take long to get to the top. Edmonton really broke out (in the regular season) in 1982, and of course, that's the famous Miracle in Manchester playoffs. But the next year, they rolled into the Cup Finals and I really don't think anyone was calling for Sather's head after losing to the battle-tested 3-time defending Stanley Cup champions. Needless to say, they didn't lose much after that year.

Right, I forgot that the Oilers were a poor team for Gretzky's first 2 years. I knew he carried them offensively, but forgot the were pretty poor overall.

 

[Analyzer*]

This is the second time in team history Montréal has done this. The other was against Boston in 2004. Also, Markov was part of both. Being on the winning end. Hal Gill was part of both, being on the losing end in Boston. Theodore was part of both, being on the losing end in this one.

This is the 3rd time in Washington's history they've done this, which leads the league.

The Caps beat the Rangers in a game 7.

In order to move forward, you must step back.

This could be a learning curve for the Capitals. Next year, go for the jugular and go for it from the start. Though, if they run into a team with a goalie playing like that and a team concept to block shots (blocked 40 tonight) they could be done for again.

Everyone who has played a game for the habs this series has a blocked shot. The habs have a total of.. Unless I messed up on the calculator, the habs have a combined 182 blocked shots.

 

[seventieslord]

This is the 3rd time in Washington's history they've done this, which leads the league.

Wait a sec, are you sure? I thought they had done this three times against the Penguins alone.



as for where this ranks, it's obviously pretty high. Being that it was 7 games, it would be lower on the list provided. I think the number of games is very important in determining how big an upset is.

For my money, Anaheim over Detroit in '03 takes it.

 

[seventieslord]

Being that the Leafs had a brutal 2nd half and barely made the playoffs, yet swept 2nd seed Ottawa in pretty convincing fashion, that should be on the list too.

 

[Never]

I think one that you could add would be the Minnesota North Stars over the Chicago Blackhawks in 1991.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Washington got exposed for being overrated frauds....I guess beating up teams in the SE will do that
big upset but the Caps have yet to prove much

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Washington got exposed for being overrated frauds....I guess beating up teams in the SE will do that
big upset but the Caps have yet to prove much

Do you have proof that their record against the Southeast was that much better than against the other divisions?

Only 24 of a team's games are against their divisional opponents and Washington won the East by a huge margin.

If anything, Washington got exposed for being built for the regular season. Not enough grit or defense.

 

[Analyzer*]

Wait a sec, are you sure? I thought they had done this three times against the Penguins alone.



as for where this ranks, it's obviously pretty high. Being that it was 7 games, it would be lower on the list provided. I think the number of games is very important in determining how big an upset is.

For my money, Anaheim over Detroit in '03 takes it.

Not completely sure. I was just listening to some guy on tsn say it.

Yup, it's the 4th time in their history, you're right.

 

[Blades of Glory]

I think one that you could add would be the Minnesota North Stars over the Chicago Blackhawks in 1991.

I want to see others' lists. The reason I left that one off is because I've always felt that Minnesota team was better than their record. They were horrific in one-goal games during the regular season, but they were loaded with experience and young talent up front. Chicago was without Michel Goulet in the playoffs, too.

 

[Big Phil]

On par with the 1994 Sharks/Red Wings IMO. I guess you can say I am someone who tends to think the Sharks/Wings series was overrated. A great upset? Yes. But we later saw a large core of this team win 2, maybe some won 3, Cups. At that time Yzerman was questioned as a leader, Osgood was a nobody and Fedorov just had his first big year. Let's not assume the '94 Wings were a seasoned group that had been there before. They hadn't, save Paul Coffey. But yeah still a pretty big upset for sure.

But I think the Pens losing to the Isles in 1993 is the biggest in the last two decades. You could easily call this the biggest upset in NHL history and no one would laugh.

Let's look at another thing too. We all talk about how the NHL has so much parity. Well, two playoff teams met and there were 33 points separating them. That upset of the Caps is one of the biggest point differences ever. That's a telling tale too, because the Caps had by far the most points and by far the most goals. No one else was close in either department. This past series reminds me of the Oilers/Kings. The Oilers weren't ready yet. They weren't battle tested. Neither are the Caps. They may be someday who knows? But right now they aren't. We tend to look back at the 1982 series with awe to this day. Can't see why this won't happen if the Caps ring off a couple Cups in the future.

Anyways with all due respect to the other big upsets in the past 20 years, this one is only surpassed by the 1993 Isles/Pens. Call it a draw with the Sharks/Wings. For those of you that don't believe it think about this. In the last two games the Caps had 96 shots. Halak and the Montreal shot blockers were heroes, they had to be. Because for those of us that watched Game 7 tonight you will realize that the Caps had the puck in the Habs end for the whole game, literally. A chip shot off the glass is what the Habs could hope for. If a team that is outplayed that badly isn't credited with one of the biggest upsets ever than I don't know what to say

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Do you have proof that their record against the Southeast was that much better than against the other divisions?

Only 24 of a team's games are against their divisional opponents and Washington won the East by a huge margin.

If anything, Washington got exposed for being built for the regular season. Not enough grit or defense.

If you go to the standings on nhl.com, and click the "vs East" button, it shows you the breakdown. Washington's record is as follows:

vs Atlantic: 14-3-3
vs Northeast: 11-4-5
total: 25-7-8 (0.625 win%)

vs Southeast: 19-3-2 (0.792 win%)

vs East (total): 44-10-10 (0.688)
vs West (total): 10-5-3 (0.566)

Subjective differences in what constitutes "much better" aside, they definitely had a better record against the Southeast than against the rest of the East.

 

[shazariahl]

I'm curious about this too.

I'm also curious as to how the current Washington team resembles the Oilers before they learned to win. The Oilers choked in the playoffs a few times too, right?

There are going to be calls to fire Boudreau I'm sure, but were there calls to fire Sather before the Oilers started winning?

Well, the Oilers choked against the kings in the first round one year. I think they were 2nd overall IIRC. I wouldn't really call losing to the Islanders choking, though they did get swept. But the Islanders were amazing. I don't really remember anyone calling for Sather's head or anything though - we were an expansion team just a few years before that, and we'd pulled off a pretty big upset of our own only a couple years before all this against Montreal (we were 14th overall, they were 3rd).

Regardless, it didn't take long before we started winning cups, and that always makes previous failure disappear pretty quickly. Especially when you win 5 of them over 7 years.

 

[tomf]

If you go to the standings on nhl.com, and click the "vs East" button, it shows you the breakdown. Washington's record is as follows:

vs Atlantic: 14-3-3
vs Northeast: 11-4-5
total: 25-7-8 (0.625 win%)

vs Southeast: 19-3-2 (0.792 win%)

vs East (total): 44-10-10 (0.688)
vs West (total): 10-5-3 (0.566)

Subjective differences in what constitutes "much better" aside, they definitely had a better record against the Southeast than against the rest of the East.

Atl: 31 pts in 20 games
NE: 27 pts in 20 games
SE: 40 pts in 24 games
West: 23 pts in 18 games

Had they been in Atlantic division they would have (projected)
Atl: 37 pts in 24 games
NE: 27 pts in 20 games
SE: 33 pts in 20 games
West 23 pts in 18 games
So they would end up with 120 pts. Difference of one point.

Had they been in NE division they would have (projected)
Atl: 31 pts in 20 games
NE: 32 pts in 24 games
SE: 33 pts in 20 games
West 23 pts in 18 games
So they would end up with 119 pts. Difference of two points.

So yes they had better record but all advantage they got from that is 1-2 points

 

[jkrx]

I dont count the habs - caps deal as one of the biggest upsets... I doubt everyone were as shocked as people were when DRW lost to sharks in 94 or when DRW (with their $77 million payroll) lost to flames in 2004 or when Kings upset DRW in 2001.

DRW solely leads the list of most shocking upsets I guess followed by Dallas - Edmonton in 97 and North stars - blackhawks in 91. Dont forget when Sharks limped in to the playoffs and crushed Blues. I would also have Edmonton upsetting Colorado in 98 higher.

 

[lextune]

This is the second time in team history Montréal has done this.

Done what?

Beat the number one seed as the lowest seed in the conference?

They've done it more than just twice. How about '84; the 75 point Habs, with Steve F'ing Penney, beat the 104 point Wales Conference leading Bruins in the first round.

 

[GNick42]

I'm really interested in the HOH opinions on where this ranks among first-round upsets. For the record, I didn't have Washington making it past the second round, even during the season. But, I didn't think Montreal was going to score enough goals to win this. That said, I don't think it's at the top of the greatest upsets of all-time. The warning signs about Washington, at least for us objective fans, had existed for a long time. How many times have we seen a great offensive team and top seed bounced in the first round because their defense and goaltending was inferior to their opponents?

For some reason, this series reminded me of Quebec-Montreal in 1993; I know that Habs team was miles better than this one, but Quebec shared so many similarities with the 2010 Capitals. Amazing forward depth was their biggest advantage, but Montreal was superior behind the bench and most so in goal. Almost identical to this years matchup.

In the past 20 seasons, here are my top ten first round upsets (not including this one), in order:

San Jose over Detroit (94)
Edmonton over Dallas (97)
Anaheim over Detroit (03)
San Jose over St. Louis (00)
Minnesota over Colorado (03)
Edmonton over Detroit (06)
Edmonton over Colorado (98)
Los Angeles over Detroit (01)
Buffalo over Boston (93)

I might be missing an obvious one, so tell me if I am. But that's my list. Where do you think Montreal over Washington ranks? Does it enter the top ten? I don't think it enters my top five, but I want your opinions.

Pretty well the biggest one...right up there for sure. It was huge. If you went back a little further there were many that is equal. Islanders over the Penguins in '93 was collasel. Kings over Oilers in '82 was big, Rangers over Islanders in '79, Leafs over Islanders in '78, Flames over Oilers in '86, Habs over Bruins in '71, Whalers over the Flyers in '86, Habs over the Bruins in 2004.

I would rank the Habs over Bruins '71 or Islanders over Pens '93 as biggest two upsets I have seen

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Pretty well the biggest one...right up there for sure. It was huge. If you went back a little further there were many that is equal. Islanders over the Penguins in '93 was collasel. Kings over Oilers in '82 was big, Rangers over Islanders in '79, Leafs over Islanders in '78, Flames over Oilers in '86, Habs over Bruins in '71, Whalers over the Flyers in '86, Habs over the Bruins in 2004.

I would rank the Habs over Bruins '71 or Islanders over Pens '93 as biggest two upsets I have seen

The Habs sweeping the Bruins in 84 with Steve Penny in net was also pretty big. I think Boston finished over 30pts ahead of the Habs that season.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Done what?

Beat the number one seed as the lowest seed in the conference?

No. It's coming back from being down 3-1.

How about '84; the 75 point Habs, with Steve F'ing Penney, beat the 104 point Wales Conference leading Bruins in the first round.

Ah Steve Penney, the master of stopping a puck with his head. That was one huge upset. Other than the Oilers/Kings and Oilers/Flames, that was probably the biggest upset of the 80's.

Penney beat the Bruins again the following season, but then he stank up the joint against the Nords the following round and that was the beginning of the end for Penney in Montreal. Over the course of the following season Roy took over the reins.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

IMO this upset is very similar to the EDM-DET upset in 2006.

Guys like Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kronwall, etc. were still young flashy players without a ton of playoff experience, and the Oilers really came together as a team and played well enough to beat them.

EDM also had a great top defenseman in Pronger (MTL had Markov), a great shutdown defenseman in Smith (MTL had Gill), and a very hot goalie in Roloson (MTL had Halak).

The only thing that made that upset slightly more amazing was the final game, in which DET went into the 3rd leading 3-0, and EDM scored 4 goals in the 3rd to win it on home ice.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

I don't consider it that big of an upset. You have to take into account that Montreal played a lot of games missing key players. They had a healthy lineup for maybe 2-3 games this year (either Markov down, or Gionta, Gomez, Camallerri, Andrei K... So we did not get the best the habs had to offer in terms of the regular season performance

For the Caps, inflated stats due to a weak SE division, playing the Hurricanes, especially when they played some really bad hockey early on and only faced Ward twice in the regular season. Do I need to mention Flo and TB? ATL was on the bubble, but for the 2nd best team in a division to be on the bubble of making the playoffs, you have to give them some stat padding for their poor division this year.

I say it's less an monumental upset, but more of a 5 beating 4 or a 6 beating 3. Like I said the Habs could of been stronger, and the Caps in a more productive division maybe would of had a harder time with PP% and total goals scored.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Atl: 31 pts in 20 games
NE: 27 pts in 20 games
SE: 40 pts in 24 games
West: 23 pts in 18 games

Had they been in Atlantic division they would have (projected)
Atl: 37 pts in 24 games
NE: 27 pts in 20 games
SE: 33 pts in 20 games
West 23 pts in 18 games
So they would end up with 120 pts. Difference of one point.

Had they been in NE division they would have (projected)
Atl: 31 pts in 20 games
NE: 32 pts in 24 games
SE: 33 pts in 20 games
West 23 pts in 18 games
So they would end up with 119 pts. Difference of two points.

So yes they had better record but all advantage they got from that is 1-2 points

Not quite that simple. It's not just that they play in the SE division, it's that you get 4 more games against those teams than any of the other teams from other divisions. It's more than just the results, too, it's how easily you're able to get them. If the Caps played out this season 5 times in parallel universes, lol, those numbers for the NE and Atl. could change a lot each time. Games against Carolina aside, Washington had a much easier time dispatching divisional opponents compared to other opponents (outscored Atlanta, TB and Florida combined 82-45 in those games, versus 236-188, or, to reduce/simplify the fraction/ratio, 118-94 or 59-47 against the rest of the teams).

I think that goal margin is proportionally double, suggesting the Caps could beat their division rivals (at least slightly) more comfortably and consistently than the other teams. In an 82 game schedule, I have to think that's at least a small factor. Instead of just 1 or 2 points, it could work out to 5 or more depending.