Smith, 5pts, -5 in last 38 games

[SoupGuru]

6 pts, +4 in the first 18 games of the season.

What's the deal?

I thought he had turned a corner considering the last part of last season and the beginning of this season.

I know December was a rough month for the entire team but Smith seems a little unfocused these days.

For reference, since Nov 30:
Ericsson: 2pts, -3
Quincey: 3pts, +5
Kronwall: 7pts, even
DeKeyser: 6pts, +3
Ouellet: 0pts, even
Kindl: 3pts, -5

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[Frk It]

Ericsson has been bad the last month or so
Kindl has been bad the last month or so
Smith has been bad the last month or so

It's not good.

As I mentioned in the other thread, our issue is moving the puck, and Smith is not helping it. He ices the puck a ton, and he can't complete even mid-range passes in stride right now to save his life.

I think Ericsson is a much bigger issue, but that's my .02

 

[The Geelee]

Babcock likes his d-men safe. Smith's natural game is anything but safe. So Babs is trying to mold him into a safe d-men, but he still makes boneheaded mistakes

Really, what is his role on this team? He gets no pp time, barely any pk time and isn't allowed to jump up in the play. So what is he doing here exactly?

 

[SoupGuru]

Ericsson has been bad the last month or so
Kindl has been bad the last month or so
Smith has been bad the last month or so

It's not good.

As I mentioned in the other thread, our issue is moving the puck, and Smith is not helping it. He ices the puck a ton, and he can't complete even mid-range passes in stride right now to save his life.

I think Ericsson is a much bigger issue, but that's my .02

I decided to provide some context, as you'll notice.

Over the last 16 games, as bad as Ericsson has been (and he's been very bad), Smith has been twice as bad. Half the points and twice the minus.

 

[Frk It]

Really, what is his role on this team? He gets no pp time, barely any pk time and isn't allowed to jump up in the play. So what is he doing here exactly?

Very valid question. At least for a decent period of time he was playing a good amount of ES time, and occasionally being used on the top pair with Kronwall.

At this juncture, I do not see a fit for him here for now and the presumable future. If we could package him for someone we intend to use as an offensive defenseman I am all for that.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Ericsson has been bad the last month or so
Kindl has been bad the last month or so
Smith has been bad the last month or so

It's not good.

As I mentioned in the other thread, our issue is moving the puck, and Smith is not helping it. He ices the puck a ton, and he can't complete even mid-range passes in stride right now to save his life.

I think Ericsson is a much bigger issue, but that's my .02

The scary part were stuck with Ericsson for 5 more years after this, No team is going to want him. Even if we were to leave him unprotected in the next expansion draft it would be our luck that he would'nt be taken.

 

[Frk It]

I decided to provide some context, as you'll notice.

Over the last 16 games, as bad as Ericsson has been (and he's been very bad), Smith is twice as bad. Half the points and twice the plus/minus.

I don't think if you watch the games you can say Smith has been twice as bad as Ericsson. Even someone who hates Smith as much as you do.

Very much cherry-picked stats, and half as bad because one has 1 pt and one has 2 pts.......I mean really???

 

[SoupGuru]

I don't think if you watch the games you can say Smith has been twice as bad as Ericsson. Even someone who hates Smith as much as you do.

Very much cherry-picked stats, and half as bad because one has 1 pt and one has 2 pts.......I mean really???

No, the difference between one point and two isn't terribly fair. I'll admit that.

But the fact is, Smith has been playing terribly. He's playing sheltered minutes. Ericsson is facing the top guys.

I still don't think having stats worse than Kindl or Ericsson really makes the point that you're a decent hockey player.

 

[8snake]

Babcock likes his d-men safe. Smith's natural game is anything but safe. So Babs is trying to mold him into a safe d-men, but he still makes boneheaded mistakes

Really, what is his role on this team? He gets no pp time, barely any pk time and isn't allowed to jump up in the play. So what is he doing here exactly?

He doesn't get PP time because he's not a skilled enough...let me put it like this, whatever skill he exhibited in college has not translated AT ALL to the pro game. He's a good skater that can't pass, can't consistently make a skilled play and can't get a shot through or shoot accurately. Why should he be on the PP? Why should he get minutes with the top forward lines when he can't make a first pass to save his life?

 

[Frk It]

No, the difference between one point and two isn't terribly fair. I'll admit that.

But the fact is, Smith has been playing terribly. He's playing sheltered minutes. Ericsson is facing the top guys.

I still don't think having stats worse than Kindl or Ericsson really makes the point that you're a decent hockey player.

I guess it's a moot point. I'm not happy with how Ericsson, Smith or Kindl has played the last month or two. And that's way too many guys to be unhappy about.

Instead of cherry-picking stats that don't give as much of a dramatic effect as I think you were going for, why don't you say why you think Smith has been bad, or more bad than usual.

My issues are Smith's passes are way off, he has gotten beat an awful lot to the outside on the rush when he shouldn't, and he just isn't seeing the ice well in general. I will say I don't think having a revolving door of Lashoff/Kindl as your partner helps matters, but he can still play better.

 

[8snake]

I don't think if you watch the games you can say Smith has been twice as bad as Ericsson. Even someone who hates Smith as much as you do.

Very much cherry-picked stats, and half as bad because one has 1 pt and one has 2 pts.......I mean really???

Both Smith and Ericsson contribute NOTHING right now. They only get noticed for their mistakes because they offer zero in terms of play making or great defensive ability.

 

[Claypool]

He's just not a good hockey player. He's unable to make quick decisions with the puck.

 

[Hendricks433]

Big E has been absolutely terrible most of the season. He gets more flack in my opinion because hes our #2. Smith was really good the first couple months but has really struggled recently.

Can we just trade half our D and just hope Ouellet(clearly ready), Jensen and Marchenko are ready?

 

[Yzerman1919*]

Am I the only one who thought he was brilliant with Kronwall and the instant chemistry and more freedom made him look like a solid player....

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Am I the only one who thought he was brilliant with Kronwall and the instant chemistry and more freedom made him look like a solid player....

Nope, I would like to see it again.

With that said and I am a very big Smith defender he needs to be better. Even I am joining Frk It in terms of the if we are never going to let him be what he is and never figure out his role he should probably be dealt. Hello my second favorite team in the league.

If Babcock does come to terms, Smith should be shipped this summer.

He does have a chance if they keep him with Ouellet to find some stability, but he is a large part of this bumpy last month and not in a good way.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Who cares about +/- ? It's not very indicative of actual play. Smith's been okay lately. He's had some off games but also some good ones. Definitely disappointing a bit offensively, and he needs to sharpen up when it comes to passing the puck so he doesn't ice it so much. But overall I don't think he's been much of an issue.

 

[Dotter]

Smith has good skating skills with zero hockey IQ. I was hoping he'd figure it out... but not looking good.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Smith has good skating skills with zero hockey IQ. I was hoping he'd figure it out... but not looking good.

Not everyone is Lidstrom. This board would absolutely tear players like Subban, Karlsson, Byfuglien, Green, Yandle etc. apart..

What Smith needs to do is step his offensive game up. I think defensively he's at a level where he's good enough. He's doing really well on the penalty kill, he's cut down on the big turnovers and missed assignments. He'll never be the #1 guy you send out to defend a lead, but I don't feel like he's a liability out there anymore. Hopefully he gets some PP time, but even without it I expect more offense. He's got good instincts and finds himself in scoring positions, but he can never finish on his opportunities.

 

[Dotter]

Not everyone is Lidstrom. This board would absolutely tear players like Subban, Karlsson, Byfuglien, Green, Yandle etc. apart..

What Smith needs to do is step his offensive game up. I think defensively he's at a level where he's good enough. He's doing really well on the penalty kill, he's cut down on the big turnovers and missed assignments. He'll never be the #1 guy you send out to defend a lead, but I don't feel like he's a liability out there anymore. Hopefully he gets some PP time, but even without it I expect more offense. He's got good instincts and finds himself in scoring positions, but he can never finish on his opportunities.

PP time won't fix him. And his brainfarts will cost too many breakaways and likely tons of shorthanded goals against. He can't be trusted.

He's already a liability everytime he handles the puck. What he needs to ramp up the physical play and make opposition players constantly look over their shoulders. He can be a physical player if he wants to.

 

[sakei]

6 pts, +4 in the first 18 games of the season.

What's the deal?

I thought he had turned a corner considering the last part of last season and the beginning of this season.

I know December was a rough month for the entire team but Smith seems a little unfocused these days.

For reference, since Nov 30:
Ericsson: 2pts, -3
Quincey: 3pts, +5
Kronwall: 7pts, even
DeKeyser: 6pts, +3
Ouellet: 0pts, even
Kindl: 3pts, -5

quincey has the best +/- over this stretch, what a time to be alive..

 

[8snake]

Nope, I would like to see it again.

With that said and I am a very big Smith defender he needs to be better. Even I am joining Frk It in terms of the if we are never going to let him be what he is and never figure out his role he should probably be dealt. Hello my second favorite team in the league.

If Babcock does come to terms, Smith should be shipped this summer.

He does have a chance if they keep him with Ouellet to find some stability, but he is a large part of this bumpy last month and not in a good way.

So you blame Babcock for the player Smith has (or hasn't) become? It's Babcock's fault Smith has shown little to no offensive ability or skill since he's been a Red Wing? This "Let him be who he is" excuse is so ridiculous and such a cop-out that it's hard to believe this many years in to Smith's career it's still a defense of him on this board.

 

[YostisHome]

Ericsson has been been going on almost a year now.... its more than just a month thing. He was bad heading into the Olympics last year, doubled down once he got back and hasn't done much this season to change that sentiment...

 

[Shadywing19]

Meh, I expect more out of Ericsson than I do smith. To me ericssons been worse and more of a disappointment. From what I've noticed, for every bone headed play smith makes. He creates a chance in the o zone. I don't know if he sucks, or is snake bitten. But from what I can see jumps into the rush and creates a lot more offensive chances than any other d man not named kronwall. Just needs too convert more. The no pp time is baffling. Don't get it. Playing most of the year with kindl and lashoff also isn't goin to make him look good or help with his confidence. It is only hurting him. Babcock is an incredible coach. Best in the world. But the way Brendan smith has been handling on the red wings really has me shaking me head. Play a guy to his strengths. Plain and simple. Putting smith in a defensive role and getting downon him when he doesn't succeed is like putting lashoff on the pp and wondering why he isn't getting points. Makes. No. Sense. Until he's used in his proper role. and still failing. I'll have his back haha

Edit. Anyone have stats on which defensive pairs play with which lines the most? From where I'm sitting. Smith gets very little time on ice with our top two lines. Spend most of his time on pk and even strength with the bottom 2 lines. He obviously isn't goin to get a lot of offensive production playing most of his minutes on the point with glendenings line out there!

Double edit. If smiths playin with dk on the second pair, or Kronner on the first. With regular even strength time with the top two lines. Also getting steady PP time. He's a 30-40pt defensman. With a +5 ish is my guess. I have no doubt about it.

 

[Obe2kenobe]

Smith has good skating skills with zero hockey IQ. I was hoping he'd figure it out... but not looking good.

Zero hockey IQ? Exaggerate much? Ericsson has been much worse this year. I would have thought he would have produced more offensively this year. I still have some confidence he will. But it's waning.

 

[SoupGuru]

Meh, I expect more out of Ericsson than I do smith. To me ericssons been worse and more of a disappointment. From what I've noticed, for every bone headed play smith makes. He creates a chance in the o zone. I don't know if he sucks, or is snake bitten. But from what I can see jumps into the rush and creates a lot more offensive chances than any other d man not named kronwall. Just needs too convert more. The no pp time is baffling. Don't get it. Playing most of the year with kindl and lashoff also isn't goin to make him look good or help with his confidence. It is only hurting him. Babcock is an incredible coach. Best in the world. But the way Brendan smith has been handling on the red wings really has me shaking me head. Play a guy to his strengths. Plain and simple. Putting smith in a defensive role and getting downon him when he doesn't succeed is like putting lashoff on the pp and wondering why he isn't getting points. Makes. No. Sense. Until he's used in his proper role. and still failing. I'll have his back haha

Edit. Anyone have stats on which defensive pairs play with which lines the most? From where I'm sitting. Smith gets very little time on ice with our top two lines. Spend most of his time on pk and even strength with the bottom 2 lines. He obviously isn't goin to get a lot of offensive production playing most of his minutes on the point with glendenings line out there!

Double edit. If smiths playin with dk on the second pair, or Kronner on the first. With regular even strength time with the top two lines. Also getting steady PP time. He's a 30-40pt defensman. With a +5 ish is my guess. I have no doubt about it.

Kindl has played 6 fewer games than Smith and has two more points and a slightly better plus/minus. Lashoff and Ouellet have the second and third best plus/minus of the defenseman. Lashoff actually has a better points/60 overall than Smith. Ouellet's is similar. Kindl's points/60 blows Smith's away.

I just don't buy the "it's his partner" argument.