Patches has been to the playoffs four times. Two out of four were productive. Skinner having no playoff experience absolutely plays into his evaluation. Silfverberg's ability to shut down elite players is more than just having the best defensive game out of the three. He has 39 points in his last 44 playoff games. He has been a reliable performer in the post season over the years on both ends of the ice. Teams typically bring in rentals for the playoffs or in the hope to sign that player long term. Even if those other two players were coveted more than Silfverberg, which I doubt, there are 16 teams headed to the playoffs and all of them will be looking for upgrades. That there are two other competitors on the market doesn't drag down Silfverberg's price at all.
Value of: Silfverberg to EDM
- Thread starter 780il
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Patches has been to the playoffs four times. Two out of four were productive. Skinner having no playoff experience absolutely plays into his evaluation. Silfverberg's ability to shut down elite players is more than just having the best defensive game out of the three. He has 39 points in his last 44 playoff games. He has been a reliable performer in the post season over the years on both ends of the ice. Teams typically bring in rentals for the playoffs or in the hope to sign that player long term. Even if those other two players were coveted more than Silfverberg, which I doubt, there are 16 teams headed to the playoffs and all of them will be looking for upgrades. That there are two other competitors on the market doesn't drag down Silfverberg's price at all.
Vipers31
Advanced Stagnostic
That's not very interesting, to be honest. I'd rather just keep him and see where the season takes us before I trade him for these pieces now.
That's true but Kane got Cond 1st, Cond 4th, and a prospect and the condition on the 1st was only if he resigns. As a rental it was a 2nd.
Vanek didn't even pull close to a 1st. He returned Jokinen and Motte.
Silf's defensive game makes him more valuable than the extra ~10 points those guys offer so I think a 1st is a realistic valuation.
Vipers31
Advanced Stagnostic
Vanek is basically the polar opposite of Silf, especially to GMs looking to acquire a player mainly for a playoff run.
Agreed on the bottom line of something around a 1st, though, I'd guess.
duxfan1101
Registered User
I think we can both agree Silf is quite a bit more valuable than current Vanek. The Kane return was definitely lower than I expected, but it's also important to note the many questions surrounding the guy's personality/discipline.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
There are 227 players who’ve played over 20 playoff games the last 4 years. Silfverberg is 12th in PPG.
Ducks DVM
sowcufucakky
Silf has been to the playoffs 7 times. 3 (or arguably 4 if you count 2 in 4gp) were productive. What's your point? If we were at the TDL and the teams are looking specifically for playoff performance then sure, the playoff record might hold more weight but we're not at the TDL. We're in the offseason. The cost of the player is going to depend on the needs of the buyer and the availability of other viable options reduces the price. That's basic supply & demand. If the team is shopping for additional scoring (like the Ducks), he's the least valuable of the three but if they're looking for a defensive F then he's far and away the most valuable.
I'm not denying Silf's ability to perform in the playoffs or his defensive prowess. I would love to keep Silf because I think his contract is probably going to be cheaper than what I value him. I'm just being realistic and saying that I think a 1st is fair value in the current market.
I'm not debating either of those statements. That being said, a 1st is quite a bit more valuable than Jokinen+Motte.
I think all this back and forth is giving people the wrong impression of what I think about Silf. He's actually one of my favorite players on the team because he is literally a swiss army knife. If he was given more than 2-3 games to gel w/ a real scoring line, I don't even think his value is anywhere close to what it is right now.
Ultimately, all I'm saying is if Silf pulls 1st+ I'll be happy and if we can find the right buyer, I have no doubt he gets that return. But if he only pulls a 1st, I wouldn't be upset because I genuinely think that's what his market value is right now for teams who don't put a priority on his defensive game. All of this assuming that he's available in the first place lol.
yababy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2015
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Except that Bruins pick was 26th overall. Oilers, having not improved the roster from last year, is going to be somewhere between 8-12. Oilers won't be giving up anymore high draft picks
anezthes
Registered User
- Mar 20, 2014
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First round pick and then some.
Awful.
Rather have Silfverberg.
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The Duck Knight
Henry, you're our only hope!
The entire reason the Ducks would entertain moving Silf is they can't afford to pay him. Simmonds will cost even more.
duxfan1101
Registered User
I didn't realize you were specifically talking about the Oilers' 1st, your comment made it seem like nobody would pay a 1st for him.
Spazkat
Registered User
- Feb 19, 2015
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What are you talking about? Yes, Kassian was a 1st round pick... in 2009. You're talking about his production in the O like anything that happened 9 years ago in juniors is in any way relevant to now.
Are you trying to say that since Kassian didn't pan out 8 years ago that it means somehow Jones won't now because they had similar stats or something? Whatever the projections were for Kassian way back when, he obviously didn't reach them. I'm failing to see how that has a thing to do with Jones and what he will develop into.
Trading a prospect that might not reach expectations for an older player you're sure will never reach them seems like bad math.
WhatTheDuck
9 - 20 - 8
Value wise I don't see why the Ducks add a 2nd. Simmonds puts up more points, Silfverberg is one of the best defensive players at their position. If their was mutual interest in the deal it would be closer to a straight 1for1.
However the fit just isn't their for the Ducks. For as long we're in contention this year, it makes sense to hold on to Silfverberg. If that changes mid season then we're likely moving him for a rental type return.
There's some question whether we can or should squeeze in a long term extension for Silf. Taking on an older player who would likely demand more due to inflated stats, and yet another veteran long term well into their 30s, is something the Ducks definitely should not get into.
I like Simmonds but it's just not the time to bring in another expensive veteran forward.
yababy
Registered User
- Jun 26, 2015
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No no, a competitive team would value Silf highly, but the Oilers are a far cry from being a piece or 2 away from contending for the Cup
I'm not saying Jones = Kassian. I'm just saying that they have very similar projections, weaknesses, and junior-level production so theres a risk that Jones could end up being Kassian. When dealing prospects, you always have to consider the risk. The problem that I see when dealing with prospects is that people always value them at whatever their peak potential is without also factoring in the risk of "busting"
All that being said, apparently I'm overvaluing Kassian/Caggiula. When I watched them play against the Ducks, Caggiula seemed to flash potential and they both seemed like players I could count on for 20-30 points so I viewed them as 4th liners w/ 3rd line upside, (potentially 2nd for Caggiula depending on his development). If our 4th liners are putting up 20-30 points, I think that would be a huge upgrade over what we were working with last year.
The basis for my argument was that a 3rd+(lower end) middle 6 F+bottom 6 F is pretty close value for a projected middle-6 F prospect. It sounds like the general consensus is that they're just 4th line plugs. I see them as having more value than that but if that's really all they are worth then I take back what I said about it being fair price.
If those 2 pieces were a #1D and a 50-point forward, I could see EDM being contenders. The problem is acquiring that without losing important roster players.
780il
edm
We could have both of those in Yamo and Bouchard but time will tell. Pulju is also another guy I think may break out this year if the new coaching staff doesn't f*** around with him like last year.
I will say, the Oilers have to have been the biggest source of mismanaged talent in the NHL in the past 20 years. Please don't take this as me taking a shot at EDM because I'm not. I just feel a lot of sympathy for the fanbase having to watch terrible trades and squandered talent for as long as they have.
Of course all that sympathy evaporates once the playoffs starts but still...
Flyerfan52
Registered User
Heck, if the Ducks should stumble & look like they'll miss the playoffs Siflverberg would merit a late 1st as a pure rental from a contender.
& of course that late 1st could range anywhere from 17th to 31st.
Likely moot as I doubt Anaheim falls that far but more a statement that people are seriously under estimating the guy.
780il
edm
Thanks for recognizing the struggle we all face as Oilers fans lol - the shitty management. Everytime that it seems like we are done with bad management, another group comes in and f***s things up. Chia was handed a future dynasty 1 or 2 dmen away from cup contention and he squandered all his assets and loaded up on shitty UFA signings. Ffs.
Basically my exact valuation of him in my first post down to the stipulation of him being a pure rental at the time of trade lol.
Not sure why fans post these type of trades . If we had Slifverberg would we trade him for whats amounts to 2nd tier assets and and a cap dump . Yes Kassian is an overpaid 4th liner
