News Article: SI: Toronto among 3 other cities due for expansion teams in 2017

[Mess]

I don't think Kitchener/Waterloo would be where they could place a team because of the territorial rights Bufflo would have and the same holds true for Hamilton, I'm not sure of the parameters involved but I would think 100 to 150 miles would be a fair guess.

I think this is why they chose Markham as the place to build an arena and maybe start a new team, they would not infringe on either Buffalo or Ottawa

Buffalo is in a different country and Hamilton doesn't have an NHL team so I don't see the territory rights as big of an issue personally.

Kitchener/Waterloo earlier proposals was mostly about the Leafs.

Isn't that Markham Arena idea on the downswing of struggling to move ahead with construction?

NHL arena in Markham 'dead' as of July 1 - YorkRegion.com

 

[Budsfan]

Buffalo is in a different country and Hamilton doesn't have an NHL team so I don't see the territory rights as big of an issue personally.

Kitchener/Waterloo earlier proposals was mostly about the Leafs.

Isn't that Markham Arena idea on the downswing of struggling to move ahead with construction?

NHL arena in Markham 'dead' as of July 1 - YorkRegion.com

Well I don't think Buffalo being in the US makes any difference, they definitely draw a large percentage of their gate monies from those areas and to interfere with that dynamic it would hurt the Buffalo franchise and I'm sure Bettman or the League doesn't want anymore teams on Life Support.

The Markham Arena Project was not going to be supported by the tax payers and so if a facility is constructed there, it would be by the private sector but Bell or Rogers would have no trouble coming up with the money and I think if one or the other of them sold their MLSE shares there would be plenty of cash to build one.

 

[mehavecable]

I see a day when Rogers owns one of the T.O. teams and Bell owns the other...

I also see a natural split where the Leafs are the old, traditional downtown team... And the new franchise as the young, northern "905-region" team. Call them the Toronto Lynx or the Mohawks something that represents the history of Toronto or Ontario.

Stick an arena at 400/hwy 7 area, fully accessible from most of the GTA by highway... (Hell, doesn't the new subway expansion head that way, too).

All this makes sense to my simple mind.

M.

 

[Woodman19]

Buffalo is in a different country and Hamilton doesn't have an NHL team so I don't see the territory rights as big of an issue personally.

Kitchener/Waterloo earlier proposals was mostly about the Leafs.

Isn't that Markham Arena idea on the downswing of struggling to move ahead with construction?

NHL arena in Markham 'dead' as of July 1 - YorkRegion.com

Many of the issues would go away if they got the green light on getting an NHL team. The private sector and likely public sector would be more willing to invest in the arena if they were assured an NHL team.

 

[Woodman19]

I see a day when Rogers owns one of the T.O. teams and Bell owns the other...

I also see a natural split where the Leafs are the old, traditional downtown team... And the new franchise as the young, northern "905-region" team. Call them the Toronto Lynx or the Mohawks something that represents the history of Toronto or Ontario.

Stick an arena at 400/hwy 7 area, fully accessible from most of the GTA by highway... (Hell, doesn't the new subway expansion head that way, too).

All this makes sense to my simple mind.

M.

It really does make sense, I suspect that Bell and Rogers will agree to a deal where Bell gives Rogers the rest of its share of the Leafs in exchange for the royalty fee that they would normally get for encroaching on their territory and Rogers walks away with full control of the Leafs and get the added benefit of earning the TV revenue off the new team anyways while Bell gets a team and can presumably negotiate some content for TV to keep TSN alive.

 

[The Legend]

Or it doesn't make financial sense because there's way too much competition for the entertainment dollar?

What competition is there for the demographics that usually would go to a hockey game? I can think of UFC/boxing only...

Most importantly, what competition is there for the dollars that casinos/corporations would spend?

 

[Stephen]

I think a split between Bell and Rogers makes sense, but I don't see how one would be willing to concede the downtown union station market for some rinky dink 905 option and the expense of having to build a new arena... who wants to willingly own the second rate team?

I don't buy the whole "stick the team beside a highway" kind of thing, because when you look at most successful rinks in this league, they are located right at transit hubs. ACC, Bell Centre, Madison Square Garden, TD Banknorth, etc.

I see one of them walking away from MLSE, but they stay in the ACC as an equal tenant, a la Lakers vs Clippers.

 

[Mess]

Many of the issues would go away if they got the green light on getting an NHL team. The private sector and likely public sector would be more willing to invest in the arena if they were assured an NHL team.

Well that Markham Area proposal was certainly impressive.

 

[Woodman19]

I think a split between Bell and Rogers makes sense, but I don't see how one would be willing to concede the downtown union station market for some rinky dink 905 option and the expense of having to build a new arena... who wants to willingly own the second rate team?

I don't buy the whole "stick the team beside a highway" kind of thing, because when you look at most successful rinks in this league, they are located right at transit hubs. ACC, Bell Centre, Madison Square Garden, TD Banknorth, etc.

I see one of them walking away from MLSE, but they stay in the ACC as an equal tenant, a la Lakers vs Clippers.

Well considering that Bell is now shut out from the NHL on TV, being able to get a good deal to broadcast some content is probably of vital importance to them so if they gave up their share of the Leafs and in return got the full schedule of games from the new team to put on TV (with a royalty fee) to Rogers, it might make sense for both sides.

 

[Budsfan]

I think a split between Bell and Rogers makes sense, but I don't see how one would be willing to concede the downtown union station market for some rinky dink 905 option and the expense of having to build a new arena... who wants to willingly own the second rate team?

I don't buy the whole "stick the team beside a highway" kind of thing, because when you look at most successful rinks in this league, they are located right at transit hubs. ACC, Bell Centre, Madison Square Garden, TD Banknorth, etc.

I see one of them walking away from MLSE, but they stay in the ACC as an equal tenant, a la Lakers vs Clippers.

Frankly it's all about money and as you know the Leafs were never that great a team, at least in recent years, so getting a new franchise in the GTA that may take some years to become a similar team, really is irrelevent as long as the money rolls in and as someone said, TSN could get the rights for them and then it would set up a TSN and RSN head to head viewer war and add more fuel to the fire and incidently more money to the league and to the two franchises.

 

[egd27]

What competition is there for the demographics that usually would go to a hockey game? I can think of UFC/boxing only...

Most importantly, what competition is there for the dollars that casinos/corporations would spend?

Are you suggesting that the casinos would buy up tickets that they would then hand out to their best customers?

I doubt there are too many visiting "high rollers" that are all that excited about going to a hockey game on their Vegas vacation.

 

[Woodman19]

Are you suggesting that the casinos would buy up tickets that they would then hand out to their best customers?

I doubt there are too many visiting "high rollers" that are all that excited about going to a hockey game on their Vegas vacation.

I hope people realise that the Metro city of Las Vegas is approximately 2 Million people. The city is as much pure gambling as Canada is pure Maple Syrup, in that I mean that there is more to a city then 1 and only 1 form of entertainment.

 

[RealityBytes]

I think a split between Bell and Rogers makes sense, but I don't see how one would be willing to concede the downtown union station market for some rinky dink 905 option and the expense of having to build a new arena... who wants to willingly own the second rate team?

I don't buy the whole "stick the team beside a highway" kind of thing, because when you look at most successful rinks in this league, they are located right at transit hubs. ACC, Bell Centre, Madison Square Garden, TD Banknorth, etc.

I see one of them walking away from MLSE, but they stay in the ACC as an equal tenant, a la Lakers vs Clippers.

How do they do that? The ACC is owned by MLSE. The owner that stays and still has part of MLSE would be crazy to give it up. Beside, how do you schedule another hockey team when beside the Leafs, the MLSE Raptors are also playing there in the same season and time periods. Is the new hockey team to get Tuesday afternoons? Sorry, but they won't fit in and would have to get a new arena.

Rogers won't be leaving, they are set with their new contract. Aside from that, the part of Bell that owns part of MLSE is the Bell pension fund and not BCE. They had to be an arms length company from Bell to get that ownership since Bell owns part of the Montreal Canadiens and would violate NHL ownership rules if they had directly acquired what is know as the Bell part of MLSE.

It is doubtful a company like the Bell pension fund would enter into a high risk purchase of an expansion team that has no arena, no set fan base, and would have to pay a penalty to the Leafs for invading their market. Pension funds do not operate that way. As well, before Bell, other than the pension fund group, can acquire a new team, they would have to sell their stake in the Habs.

Last, this expansion rumour was just a tweet by sports writer Howard Bloom of SportsBizNews that suggested the NHL will expand. It has been denied by the NHL as soon as it was released including full descriptions of the denial in the newspapers.

Its all just blab, nothing more.

 

[Jack Bauer]

Last, this expansion rumour was just a tweet by a sports writer. It has been denied by the NHL as soon as it was released including full descriptions of the denial in the newspapers.

Its all just blab, nothing more.

That's how EVERY rumor is communicated these days so saying it's 'just a tweet' doesn't hold much weight.

From what I understand it came from multiple writers and was immediately denied.

This exact same situation played out 1 week ago and within 48 hours of the denial it ended up that the original reporter was in fact correct so to say the league denied it so there's nothing to it is a very naive conclusion at this time.

 

[RealityBytes]

That's how EVERY rumor is communicated these days so saying it's 'just a tweet' doesn't hold much weight.

From what I understand it came from multiple writers and was immediately denied.

No, it was not multiple writers ... it was just a tweet by Howard Bloom of SportsBizNews that suggested the NHL will expand.

Any others were just responding to Bloom's "suggestion" tweet, not from a credible source.

Beside, with the trouble some NHL teams have now, movement is more likely than expansion. If there was any expansion, it would be two teams at most and not one to Toronto.

This exact same situation played out 1 week ago and within 48 hours of the denial it ended up that the original reporter was in fact correct so to say the league denied it so there's nothing to it is a very naive conclusion at this time.

What exactly was that situation? What did the NHL release and was denied? You certainly can't call the Leiweke leaving MSLE as the same, TL could have changed his mind in 24 hours after a conflict with MLSE.

 

[egd27]

I hope people realise that the Metro city of Las Vegas is approximately 2 Million people. The city is as much pure gambling as Canada is pure Maple Syrup, in that I mean that there is more to a city then 1 and only 1 form of entertainment.

Actually Clark County is approx 2M people. Clark County is comprised of five incorporated cities (Boulder, Henderson, Las Vegas, Mesquite and North Las Vegas) and encompasses approx 8,000 sq miles.

The city of Las Vegas is around 600K

But either way, what is it about the area that suggest hockey would be successful?

Is it the median household income of around $45K?

Is it the all residents that grew up playing and loving hockey?

Is it the 30% Latino population?

Is it Gary Bettman's track record of successful expansions and relocations? (Nashville, Atlanta, Columbus, Phoenix, Carolina)

All I'm saying is there are reasons beyond the "gambling fear" that no major sports league has put a team in Vegas, and I don't think the NHL is the right league to be the trail blazer.

 

[The Legend]

Are you suggesting that the casinos would buy up tickets that they would then hand out to their best customers?

I doubt there are too many visiting "high rollers" that are all that excited about going to a hockey game on their Vegas vacation.

Yes I am completely suggesting that. Fairly sure that if whales are ok with going to concerts and cirque du soleil shows, they'd be fine with hockey as well. Especially if they can bet on it....

 

[Cor]

Denials mean nothing now a days.

Heck, Tim Leiweke denied he was leaving, and within 24 hours, it was announced

 

[Stephen]

How do they do that? The ACC is owned by MLSE. The owner that stays and still has part of MLSE would be crazy to give it up. Beside, how do you schedule another hockey team when beside the Leafs, the MLSE Raptors are also playing there in the same season and time periods. Is the new hockey team to get Tuesday afternoons? Sorry, but they won't fit in and would have to get a new arena.

Rogers won't be leaving, they are set with their new contract. Aside from that, the part of Bell that owns part of MLSE is the Bell pension fund and not BCE. They had to be an arms length company from Bell to get that ownership since Bell owns part of the Montreal Canadiens and would violate NHL ownership rules if they had directly acquired what is know as the Bell part of MLSE.

It is doubtful a company like the Bell pension fund would enter into a high risk purchase of an expansion team that has no arena, no set fan base, and would have to pay a penalty to the Leafs for invading their market. Pension funds do not operate that way. As well, before Bell, other than the pension fund group, can acquire a new team, they would have to sell their stake in the Habs.

Last, this expansion rumour was just a tweet by sports writer Howard Bloom of SportsBizNews that suggested the NHL will expand. It has been denied by the NHL as soon as it was released including full descriptions of the denial in the newspapers.

Its all just blab, nothing more.

The ACC could host two hockey teams and a basketball team just like the Staples Center hosts the Lakers, Clippers and Kings. The WHA was a fierce rival of the NHL, yet the Toronto Toros rented out the ice at Maple Leaf Gardens for their home games. And if MLSE charges rent and takes in a slice of the expansion team, why wouldn't they make it work? Profit even when the Leafs aren't playing? Sure!

Solves the problem of another arena being built in the city which would challenge the ACC for concert bookings.

 

[Bps21*]

i really have to wonder the wisdom (truly) of having another team here. I don't think it will be the same as having like Buffalo-NYR-NYI-NJD in the same general area

Yeah...buffalo is nowhere near those other places. You could drive from Toronto to buffalo three times before you'd get from buffalo to NYC. Buy a map.

And Hamilton has been discussed over and over and it always ends with the same discussion...it is within 50 miles of BOTH buffalo and Toronto and both teams can block a team going there

 

[TheThrill81*]

Denials mean nothing now a days.

Heck, Tim Leiweke denied he was leaving, and within 24 hours, it was announced

He denied reports that he was leaving right away. He's leaving next year, at the end of his contract. There is a difference.

 

[RealityBytes]

The ACC could host two hockey teams and a basketball team just like the Staples Center hosts the Lakers, Clippers and Kings. The WHA was a fierce rival of the NHL, yet the Toronto Toros rented out the ice at Maple Leaf Gardens for their home games. And if MLSE charges rent and takes in a slice of the expansion team, why wouldn't they make it work? Profit even when the Leafs aren't playing? Sure!

Solves the problem of another arena being built in the city which would challenge the ACC for concert bookings.

Well on the one point, yeah, I'll concede. The Staples Center is doing it with three basketball teams and a hockey team. They also host the WNBA LA Sparks. So I guess if they could stuff it in, others could as well. Somebody has to be getting crappy playing times though. Not good for prime time broadcasting.

Don't forget when the Toros were playing in MLG, it was Howard Ballard the ultimate cheapskate owner then who was there to grab every penny he could.

Not sure by what you mean "takes in a slice of the expansion team", MLSE could not hold more than a small percentage of another NHL team else they violate NHL owner rules.

 

[Budsfan]

DeCock: Hurricanes' struggles once again make them target for rumors

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/08/28/4103635_decock-hurricanes-struggles-once.html?&rh=1

Thursday morning on his radio show, Dan Patrick claimed that “a financial person who’s involved in this” told him the NHL would have a team in Las Vegas by 2016. He further claimed the Carolina Hurricanes were one of two teams that could move there.

“I guess he’s asking an exorbitant price for his team,” Patrick said, after initially identifying Hurricanes owner Peter Karmanos as the owner of the Nashville Predators. “That’s also a possibility from what I’m told. They could relocate as well.”

Patrick is probably right about the first part. Expansion, to Las Vegas and beyond, appears inevitable. As for the second, just consider this kind of talk the price of five straight seasons without a playoff appearance. As ticket sales and corporate sponsorships dwindle, as Karmanos sells off chunks of the team to local investors, these kinds of rumors will only intensify.

 

[Stephen]

Well on the one point, yeah, I'll concede. The Staples Center is doing it with three basketball teams and a hockey team. They also host the WNBA LA Sparks. So I guess if they could stuff it in, others could as well. Somebody has to be getting crappy playing times though. Not good for prime time broadcasting.

Don't forget when the Toros were playing in MLG, it was Howard Ballard the ultimate cheapskate owner then who was there to grab every penny he could.

Not sure by what you mean "takes in a slice of the expansion team", MLSE could not hold more than a small percentage of another NHL team else they violate NHL owner rules.

I just mean that if the other NHL club is actually playing at the ACC, as the owners, the Toronto Maple Leafs would naturally charge them some form of rent. I think the LA Clippers rent the Staples Center from AEG, the parent company that owns the Kings.

 

[Menzinger]

DeCock: Hurricanes' struggles once again make them target for rumors

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/08/28/4103635_decock-hurricanes-struggles-once.html?&rh=1

The Hurricanes wouldn't be moving anytime soon: they're averaging around 16k per game in attendance. Lots of other teams will move before them.