Should winning a cup matter in player rankings?

[Rapsfan]

In the NBA, winning the title to a superstar means A LOT to their career. What about in the NHL? Should we ever use cup wins as an argument for ranking superstars?

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[amnesiac]

for one, depends if they make a big difference or not. But you cant compare player winning pre-expansion to today.

Did Kevin Lowe deserve to be a HOFer because he has 6 Cups? Probably not.

Is it Marcel Dionne's fault he played for a crappy Kings team for most of his career and never won? No.

Is it Joe Thornton's fault his team never won in a 26+ team cap era league? also no.

Was Patrick Roy one of the greatest goalies ever based on his playoff performances (3 Smythes)? Yes absolutely.

 

[Voight]

No. Its not basketball where one or two good players can bring you to the finals and win. Sometimes great players just dont have great teams around them, Marcel Dionne being a good example.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

NHL is not the NBA. In the NBA, a star player plays at least 40/48 minutes in playoff games, sometimes even the full game depending on the situation. So they are impacting basically the entire game. In the NHL, star forwards top out at ~22mins a game in the playoffs. That's 40mins when they aren't on the ice. NBA you can load up on stars and win with no depth, but that will never work in the NHL. That's why rings matter more to an NBA players legacy. In the NHL they shouldn't really matter but there are still some who foolishly use them in individual player comparisons.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Depends on the context of how winning Cups is being used to determine rankings.

If one player is clearly superior to another player, but the inferior player won more Cups, then Cup wins shouldn't be a factor at all.

Also, depends how much that player contributed to the team winning a Cup. Being a passenger on a team that happens to win 3 or 4 Cups doesn't trump being the main reason a team wins 1 Cup.

 

[JaegerDice]

Of course they matter. But really only for star players.

That is, the best players, the pillars of a team's core, the guys playing the key positions (1C, 1D, 1G, sometimes 1W). These are the players and positions that will ultimately be the most responsible for whether a team reaches the summit, or fails to. They are the players that take up the biggest chunks of the cap, play the most minutes, play the most important minutes, and are ultimately counted on to perform best when the quality and intensity of competition is highest.

It doesn't matter much for support players or guys who bounce around to different teams, and play 8 minutes a night on the 4th line. Good for them that they won a cup (maybe even several), but they aren't the guys teams build around in pursuit of cups.

 

[983 others]

If the player I’m arguing for has won, then yes it matters a lot.

If they haven’t won, then no, it’s a team sport and all that.

 

[DueDiligence]

Only if they were instrumental in the win. Just being a part isn't good enough.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

It's fair to use as a tie breaker when comparing 2 players with similar resumes.

Assuming the player in question was a key contributor and not just a passenger

 

[The Macho King]

It's fair to use as a tie breaker when comparing 2 players with similar resumes.

Assuming the player in question was a key contributor and not just a passenger

This. Stamkos' reputation for being bad in the playoffs did not magically change with a Cup.

 

[Nasti]

It matters only if you’re a star player who played on a good team.

Example 1: Joe Thornton played his entire career on cup contenders. Not winning should be a mark against him.

Example 2: Marcel Dionne played his entire career on crap teams. Not winning should not be a mark against him.

Example 3: Chris Kunitz won four cups and was an average player. He got lucky.

 

[majormajor]

Did the player step up and help the team win those cups? Did they play especially well in the playoffs? That would certainly make a big difference.

Just being on cup winners is worthless from my perspective of player value. They actually have to make a difference in winning it.

This. Stamkos' reputation for being bad in the playoffs did not magically change with a Cup.

Stamkos is a good example - I don't elevate him one iota for being a two-time cup winner.

 

[Paul4587]

Depends entirely on the context.

 

[Shinjuku Calling]

obviously

 

[jetsforever]

Just ask HHOF-lock Pat Maroon

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

It kind of matters, but winning/losing has to be put in its context.

For example, I don’t think less of the Sedins or Bure just because they’ve never won.

These players came very close to winning it, close enough that any random lucky event could’ve altered the course of history in their favor.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Selänne would be viewed differently without a cup. They do matter.

 

[wetcoast]

Winning a SC or not is not a big deal for me, individual performance still can be constructively evaluated but in reality we all know that the majority of people place an emphasis on winning.

Rightly or wrongly, that's the reality of it.

 

[Pyrophorus]

The Pocket Rocket won the most. Habs fans say that he wasn't really all that, more of a passenger.
There is also Mike Keane and Brian Skrudland-I'm not sure if they were the Coleman and Goodrow of their day?

 

[Juxta Position]

No. Its not basketball where one or two good players can bring you to the finals and win. Sometimes great players just dont have great teams around them, Marcel Dionne being a good example.

Agreed. Dale Hawerchuk being another.

 

[Varan]

Just imagine OV without a championship

 

[garbageteam]

It adds something for sure but not huge. Certainly some 4th line 10 point forward with 3 cups is not a better player than a perennial ppg player with zero cups

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

I have never viewed a player in a different light after they have won a Cup. I have no idea why a player ranking would change because of a team trophy.

 

[T REX]

Absolutely yes...especially when comparing 2 guys with similar stats.

Cups matter.

I can't believe this poll.