Should the UFC replace Women's Featherweight with Women's Atomwweight?

[MMC]

Curious to hear people's thoughts on this

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[MMC]

Some context, these are the listed current women's FWs on wikipedia

 

[CDJ]

I’d say no to 105 and 145. Talent pool isn’t deep enough at 145. 105 is ONE and Rizin’s turf, I wouldn’t bother as I doubt it’s a moneymaker anyway

 

[16Skippy]

I said yes.

But honestly if they half ass it like they did with 145 there's no point.

 

[pistolpete11]

I say have both.

A couple of years ago, I would have said to have neither, but after seeing what's happened with men's FLW, who knows? Maybe the same thing could happen for WAW and WFW.

 

[m9]

I can assure you anyone who says "have both" doesn't watch the UFC prelim WMMA on a regular basis. The fight and talent level is absolutely awful and it will be even worse at 105/145 than it is at the current weight classes.

I'm not saying never - can always revisit in a few years - but not now.

I said yes.

But honestly if they half ass it like they did with 145 there's no point.

Disagree. How they did 145 is the only way to handle it if you include these divisions. Just keep 6-10 relevant fighters in the division. Every fight is a title fight or contender fight. If you aren't in the mix go fight in other organizations until you are.

 

[16Skippy]

I can assure you anyone who says "have both" doesn't watch the UFC prelim WMMA on a regular basis. The fight and talent level is absolutely awful and it will be even worse at 105/145 than it is at the current weight classes.

I'm not saying never - can always revisit in a few years - but not now.



Disagree. How they did 145 is the only way to handle it if you include these divisions. Just keep 6-10 relevant fighters in the division. Every fight is a title fight or contender fight. If you aren't in the mix go fight in other organizations until you are.

I think it’s ok to start like that but if they planned on keeping it around they should have started filling it out by now.

 

[pistolpete11]

I can assure you anyone who says "have both" doesn't watch the UFC prelim WMMA on a regular basis. The fight and talent level is absolutely awful and it will be even worse at 105/145 than it is at the current weight classes.

I'm not saying never - can always revisit in a few years - but not now.

That's what prelims are for. You can't just flip a switch and say "OK, we're going to have a good atomweight division now." You need to build it. The prelims (and early prelims) is the place to do it.

 

[m9]

That's what prelims are for. You can't just flip a switch and say "OK, we're going to have a good atomweight division now." You need to build it. The prelims (and early prelims) is the place to do it.

Invicta is the place to do it. The skill level of the 15th-40th fighters in these divisions is extremely low. Not UFC level.

 

[Taytro]

I think the 3 women's divisions is fine, especially since the UFC really doesn't prioritize the growth of the women's divisions. Adding another division would take the focus away from 3 other divisions that don't get enough focus anyway.

Featherweight is clearly done, no need to add another division until the UFC decides to put the effort into growing the women's game.

 

[pistolpete11]

Invicta is the place to do it. The skill level of the 15th-40th fighters in these divisions is extremely low. Not UFC level.

You don't need to carry 40 fighters right away. I don't know what they cut the men's FLW division down to when they revamped it, but follow a similar path. Go barebones, put all the non-title fights on the prelims, and slowly build it out.

I'm not suggesting it is going to be pretty. Every new division sucks for a while, but as history tells us, eventually they will have their moment in the sun. Since I've been following MMA, it's happened with WBW, WSW, MFLW, and I think we're starting to see WFLW come around, too. MBW and MFW (outside of Conor) were also kind of afterthoughts when I started watching and now they are arguably 2 of the best divisions in the UFC.

For atomweight, if she is willing and able to still get to 105, have Waterson go down. Even if she is just a can crusher for a while, people like her. And she's a UFC caliber fighter, so when she eventually loses, you know the girl that beat her is legit. She could be the Ronda, JJ, Valentina of atomweight.

For featherweight, I think you keep it around if for nothing else than to leave it open for a potential Nunes-Harrison fight.

 

[chicagoskycam]

I think the 3 women's divisions is fine, especially since the UFC really doesn't prioritize the growth of the women's divisions. Adding another division would take the focus away from 3 other divisions that don't get enough focus anyway.

Featherweight is clearly done, no need to add another division until the UFC decides to put the effort into growing the women's game.

Completely disagree with this portion

 

[Taytro]

Completely disagree with this portion

It's fine to disagree but I'll explain my opinion. UFC very rarely promotes the women to the same level that they promote the men, select few exceptions where the UFC had a star in mind and really gave them a push. They seem very willing to let a women's divisions die rather than bring in talent (that exist in other organizations) that would improve the existing divisions. UFC made featherweight just to have another star, Cyborg, since then they've virtually given up on the division entirely. If the UFC doesn't have a star in a women's division, then they don't seem to care about it. When Germaine won the title she didn't get a push, she got pushed out to make way for the UFCs star. When that didn't pan out, the division fizzled.

How can we justify a 5th women's divisions after seeing how they treated featherweight? If they weren't willing to bring in the talent to make 145 work, why should we believe they're willing to bring in the talent to make 105 work? Especially since UFC goes through fits of not liking the smaller divisions anyway (see Men's flyweight).

 

[m9]

It's fine to disagree but I'll explain my opinion. UFC very rarely promotes the women to the same level that they promote the men, select few exceptions where the UFC had a star in mind and really gave them a push. They seem very willing to let a women's divisions die rather than bring in talent (that exist in other organizations) that would improve the existing divisions. UFC made featherweight just to have another star, Cyborg, since then they've virtually given up on the division entirely. If the UFC doesn't have a star in a women's division, then they don't seem to care about it. When Germaine won the title she didn't get a push, she got pushed out to make way for the UFCs star. When that didn't pan out, the division fizzled.

How can we justify a 5th women's divisions after seeing how they treated featherweight? If they weren't willing to bring in the talent to make 145 work, why should we believe they're willing to bring in the talent to make 105 work? Especially since UFC goes through fits of not liking the smaller divisions anyway (see Men's flyweight).

First off I agree there should be no 105 division. I will say that it's unfair to say the UFC doesn't promote the women as well in general - they headline PPVs, co-headline huge PPVs, main event ESPN cards and have been all over TUF and other UFC promo stuff. They do a very good job with 115/125/135. Obviously 145lbs has generally been a flop.

 

[pistolpete11]

It's fine to disagree but I'll explain my opinion. UFC very rarely promotes the women to the same level that they promote the men, select few exceptions where the UFC had a star in mind and really gave them a push. They seem very willing to let a women's divisions die rather than bring in talent (that exist in other organizations) that would improve the existing divisions. UFC made featherweight just to have another star, Cyborg, since then they've virtually given up on the division entirely. If the UFC doesn't have a star in a women's division, then they don't seem to care about it. When Germaine won the title she didn't get a push, she got pushed out to make way for the UFCs star. When that didn't pan out, the division fizzled.

How can we justify a 5th women's divisions after seeing how they treated featherweight? If they weren't willing to bring in the talent to make 145 work, why should we believe they're willing to bring in the talent to make 105 work? Especially since UFC goes through fits of not liking the smaller divisions anyway (see Men's flyweight).

One of the reasons the UFC didn't push GDR is because she refused to fight Cyborg even though everybody knew they were opening the 145 division specifically for Cyborg. Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't hold a grudge forever and even ended up giving her another title shot at 135.

 

[Taytro]

First off I agree there should be no 105 division. I will say that it's unfair to say the UFC doesn't promote the women as well in general - they headline PPVs, co-headline huge PPVs, main event ESPN cards and have been all over TUF and other UFC promo stuff. They do a very good job with 115/125/135. Obviously 145lbs has generally been a flop.

I disagree, Valentina has been champ 4 years and always played second fiddle while male champions often headline PPVs if they hold the belt for a little while but thats not really my point. My point isn't even card placement but the general promotion of female fighters as a whole. The UFC has kind of stagnated on promoting the women, promotional events, scheduled air time, interviews, other opportunities, etc. often doesn't focus on the females as much as the males. The UFC has the platform and means to promote them to be stars but seems content to just let the chips fall where they may. Again just my take from what media I consume and what I see/hear. I don't see how another division is viable when I don't even hear about the existing divisions until like a week or two before a title fight.

 

[m9]

I disagree, Valentina has been champ 4 years and always played second fiddle while male champions often headline PPVs if they hold the belt for a little while but thats not really my point. My point isn't even card placement but the general promotion of female fighters as a whole. The UFC has kind of stagnated on promoting the women, promotional events, scheduled air time, interviews, other opportunities, etc. often doesn't focus on the females as much as the males. The UFC has the platform and means to promote them to be stars but seems content to just let the chips fall where they may. Again just my take from what media I consume and what I see/hear. I don't see how another division is viable when I don't even hear about the existing divisions until like a week or two before a title fight.

But this is the same BS we heard about Demitrious Johnson for years and how it's the UFC's fault he isn't a star. Rousey became a star. Nunes, Cyborg, Joanna, and Rose become some level of star. Meisha Tate, PVZ, and others have done well.

The reason Shevchenko isn't headlining PPVs is just fans aren't really compelled by her as of now. She has virtually no rivals, doesn't really finish fights and is from overseas. She seems nice and wins all of her fights. That's not really selling PPVs.

Your complaint is about how the UFC promotes in general, not how they promote WMMA fighters. If you are saying they do a bad job promoting their own fighters, then that's fine. But there's nothing to suggest that's a a WMMA thing.. it's exactly the same as they do for the men.

 

[chicagoskycam]

But this is the same BS we heard about Demitrious Johnson for years and how it's the UFC's fault he isn't a star. Rousey became a star. Nunes, Cyborg, Joanna, and Rose become some level of star. Meisha Tate, PVZ, and others have done well.

The reason Shevchenko isn't headlining PPVs is just fans aren't really compelled by her as of now. She has virtually no rivals, doesn't really finish fights and is from overseas. She seems nice and wins all of her fights. That's not really selling PPVs.

Your complaint is about how the UFC promotes in general, not how they promote WMMA fighters. If you are saying they do a bad job promoting their own fighters, then that's fine. But there's nothing to suggest that's a a WMMA thing.. it's exactly the same as they do for the men.

Not to mention Rose and Amanda have recently participated in ads with UFC partners. Valentina just isn't as marketable and you are correct, she does not have a good challenger in that division to headline a fight. As soon as Rousey took off I know Dana was drinking the koolaid. Do they market Usman that much outside of a headliner? The fact is other than Conor most people don't know who any of these fighters are.

They probably drop 145 lbs once Amanda is done, otherwise it's fun for her to run around with two belts.

 

[Taytro]

But this is the same BS we heard about Demitrious Johnson for years and how it's the UFC's fault he isn't a star. Rousey became a star. Nunes, Cyborg, Joanna, and Rose become some level of star. Meisha Tate, PVZ, and others have done well.

The reason Shevchenko isn't headlining PPVs is just fans aren't really compelled by her as of now. She has virtually no rivals, doesn't really finish fights and is from overseas. She seems nice and wins all of her fights. That's not really selling PPVs.

Your complaint is about how the UFC promotes in general, not how they promote WMMA fighters. If you are saying they do a bad job promoting their own fighters, then that's fine. But there's nothing to suggest that's a a WMMA thing.. it's exactly the same as they do for the men.

I disagree, I think UFC gives platforms to people who they think will become stars and I think those platforms are given disproportionately to male performers. And I did qualify my statement by saying, in the media I consume the promos, the air time, the interviews, etc. leans toward male athletes. Not just exclusively "stars" but in general the promotion I see is make dominated.

You saying they treat the women's divisions the same as the men's is untrue to me. They recruit skilled guys from other organizations for men's divisions, Chandler, Jiri, Gaethje, Askren, etc. But they can't seem to bring in any 145 pound women to build a division? They brought cyborg in 7 years ago and nothing since. This whole conversation is based on whether we think they should have a 105, and my opinion is, if they're not going to dedicate the effort to specifically build and promote the newer divisions that they already have (like w145), why would we think that they would put the effort in to build and promote w105?

 

[m9]

I disagree, I think UFC gives platforms to people who they think will become stars and I think those platforms are given disproportionately to male performers. And I did qualify my statement by saying, in the media I consume the promos, the air time, the interviews, etc. leans toward male athletes. Not just exclusively "stars" but in general the promotion I see is make dominated.

You saying they treat the women's divisions the same as the men's is untrue to me. They recruit skilled guys from other organizations for men's divisions, Chandler, Jiri, Gaethje, Askren, etc. But they can't seem to bring in any 145 pound women to build a division? They brought cyborg in 7 years ago and nothing since. This whole conversation is based on whether we think they should have a 105, and my opinion is, if they're not going to dedicate the effort to specifically build and promote the newer divisions that they already have (like w145), why would we think that they would put the effort in to build and promote w105?

We agree that they don't need 105 and 145. No arguments there. If you want to leave the conversation at that point then that makes sense. Of course there are more men in the media based purely on numbers as there are probably 5X as many men in the UFC than there are females. Given the amount of females in the UFC, they are represented fine.

145 has not developed because there are very few girls to fight there. Which girls would you like them to bring in? They brought in Cyborg, but they had their issues there and moved on. Kayla Harrison is the only potential name, and she can't even make 145lbs regularly. Do you expect the UFC to just wave a magic wand and 20 talented 145lb females appear? This would be a legit argument if other organizations had amazing 145lb divisions but they don't. It's a joke everywhere, there's almost no talent. That's not the UFC's fault.

 

[Taytro]

We agree that they don't need 105 and 145. No arguments there. If you want to leave the conversation at that point then that makes sense. Of course there are more men in the media based purely on numbers as there are probably 5X as many men in the UFC than there are females. Given the amount of females in the UFC, they are represented fine.

145 has not developed because there are very few girls to fight there. Which girls would you like them to bring in? They brought in Cyborg, but they had their issues there and moved on. Kayla Harrison is the only potential name, and she can't even make 145lbs regularly. Do you expect the UFC to just wave a magic wand and 20 talented 145lb females appear? This would be a legit argument if other organizations had amazing 145lb divisions but they don't. It's a joke everywhere, there's almost no talent. That's not the UFC's fault.

We can agree to disagree, we just have differing opinions and that's fine. I disagree that it's not the UFCs fault for creating a division then not being able to appropriately fill a roster for that division.

We can also get into equality vs equity especially if you're trying to make or develop a division(s). But at the end of the day, my opinion is just that of the media I consume I think the women fighters need more/better promotion than what they get now in order to be on par with the men's divisions. Your opinion is that they get enough, which is fine. Regardless, yeah, ditch 145 and no 105 yet, thanks.

 

[Elvis P]

Idk, but I know Ailin Perez can whip any man in this forum!

 

[SuperScript29]

Women's 115, 125, and 135 are the only legit divisions at this point. Don't bother with 105, and 145 is a shaky for me but I'm hesitant to drop it due to the potential of Kayla Harrison coming into the UFC, she's a big girl and will not make 135.

 

[norrisnick]

Women's 115, 125, and 135 are the only legit divisions at this point. Don't bother with 105, and 145 is a shaky for me but I'm hesitant to drop it due to the potential of Kayla Harrison coming into the UFC, she's a big girl and will not make 135.

Why not just pull a pride and adjust the weight classes to stack up the talent? They bumped up LW to 160 and skipped ww to go straight to middle weight at 185 and then LHW at 205 and HW at 206+

So for the ladies do 115, 130, 145. Done. If you are 112 and cutting to 105 just fight at 115. 147 trying to cut to 135 just fight at 145. And if some bigger women come in that are legit bangers have a LW division.

Too many divisions muddy things up and you avoid fights for too long because people are fighting in neighboring divisions even though they are the same size.