Should the NHL draft add Competitive Balance Rounds?

[JianYang]

It's hard to fix poorly managed franchises.

If you win the right lottery, you can succeed in spite of management.

Edmonton is a pretty good example. Sure, they have withered away alot of valuable time, but mcdavid has basically propelled that team to an elevated status despite themselves. They are still not as good as they should be at this point, but they are must see TV, and there is an aura of excitement around them.

 

[MikeyMike01]

i dont like the idea of it.

sounds corruptible. who decides the 'star player' status.

It is based on salary.

 

[crazy8888]

Watching the NFL draft now, it's interesting to see how many bonus picks there are tacked on to the end of each round. It is done in baseball as well.

For those who don't know, between the 1st and 2nd round, or 2nd or 3rd round, etc, some leagues decide to give certain teams additional picks in order to improve competition. These picks are typically awarded to bad teams as compensation for low payroll, a star player leaving via UFA, or just general sucking or unfortunate events.

The NFL is weird and has a ton of ways for teams to earn extra draft picks, and I don't think we should go that far, but maybe it would make sense if Calgary got an extra pick at the end of the 1st or 2nd round for when Gaudreau walked.

This would be very counterproductive to the whole tanking issue that gets talked about here quiet often. Thanks though, i did now know other leagues do this.

 

[dirtydanglez]

It is based on salary.

not a bad way to do it. is it based on a set number or percentage?

 

[Prairie Habs]

This seems like a GMs wet dream where they are rewarded for doing nothing.

You are a bubble team and have to make a decision on trading your good pending UFA or trying to make the playoffs? just do nothing to try and squeak in then get a pick for him after.

You are a rebuilding team and have a tonne of cap space you could utilize? Just leave it and get some draft picks.

You lose a guy in FA and need to figure out a way to replace him? You only get the draft pick if you don't replace him, so just do nothing and get the pick.

The only thing I can say in its favour is maybe it would increase player movement through FA if GMs knew they were getting something back rather than 90%+ of the best UFAs just re-signing like now. But it could also reduce player movement in situations like Klingberg and ANA. They could just keep him and lose him in FA while probably getting a better pick than the 4th they ended up with.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Watching the NFL draft now, it's interesting to see how many bonus picks there are tacked on to the end of each round. It is done in baseball as well.

For those who don't know, between the 1st and 2nd round, or 2nd or 3rd round, etc, some leagues decide to give certain teams additional picks in order to improve competition. These picks are typically awarded to bad teams as compensation for low payroll, a star player leaving via UFA, or just general sucking or unfortunate events.

The NFL is weird and has a ton of ways for teams to earn extra draft picks, and I don't think we should go that far, but maybe it would make sense if Calgary got an extra pick at the end of the 1st or 2nd round for when Gaudreau walked.

the nhl had that until the GMS found a loop hole

NYR traded Brian Leetch to the oilers for Jussie Markkanen--Oilers got a 2nd rounder I think or believe--time has played with my memory. Leetch signed back with the NYR but the oilers got a pick as compensation

Difference between the NHL GM and ALL other leagues? NHL gms spend a lot of time looking for loop holes cause the NHL wont step in when they do.

Other leagues will step in when a team is up to no good--cap fines and stripping of top picks

NHL only steps in when either other teams getting really pissy or the media goes nuts

NO other league would allow the cap crap that they NHL does

 

[Brodeur]

not a bad way to do it. is it based on a set number or percentage?

The NHL never did release the formula on how they determined compensatory picks from 1995-2004. Bobby Holik and Bill Guerin both signed 5 year, 45 million dollar deals in the summer of 2002. New Jersey received the 42nd pick in 2003 as compensation while Boston got the 45th pick. After digging it up, it looks like Holik's deal was slightly frontloaded so that might explain why the Devils got the higher pick.

Not sure the NHLPA would be too anxious to add more draft picks as they already reduced the draft from nine rounds to seven in 2005. Unlike the NFL where the guys are competing for roster spots immediately, most non-blue chip hockey prospects are going to take 3+ years before they're thinking about making the big club.

I'd argue with another poster all the time in that he was certain there was more glory/pride in being a 9th round pick rather than an undrafted free agent. My argument was that the undrafted free agent got to choose his team/path whereas the options for the 9th rounder were limited.

The formula could get messy in the cap era. In the old system, I'm not sure Calgary would get a compensatory pick for Gaudreau since they signed Kadri. And then some trades would get more complicated because of the implied compensatory pick. New Jersey gave up Sheldon Souray and a 2nd for Vladimir Malakhov but they figured Malakhov would also net a compensatory 3rd when he left via free agency. Baseball ended up not giving compensatory picks to deadline acquisitions in recent memory.

 

[Brodeur]

the nhl had that until the GMS found a loop hole

Nashville had drafted a couple impending UFAs in the 1998 Expansion Draft with the intention of losing them for the compensatory picks. Sharks GM Dean Lombardi (a former lawyer) was the first to really abuse it. He acquired Theo Fleury's rights at the 2002 Draft for practically nothing. The Rangers were planning on being active in free agency so they knew they wouldn't get a compensatory pick for Fleury. Meanwhile San Jose had long been interested in Fleury, so people thought they just wanted a couple extra days to negotiate with him. But San Jose just wanted to lose Fleury for a pick (ended up being a 2003 3rd).

The market for those sort of trades changed overnight. But in the pre-cap world there were basically the rich teams and the poor teams (who couldn't afford big name UFAs).

 

[Ted Hoffman]

i dont like the idea of it.

sounds corruptible. who decides the 'star player' status.

It is based on salary.

This idea [any idea proposed that jumps off the OP's idea, where picks are based on salary] keeps getting worse as it goes along.

 

[MikeyMike01]

not a bad way to do it. is it based on a set number or percentage?

It’s complicated

https://overthecap.com/compensatory-formula

 

[3074326]

The NFL also gives compensatory picks to teams that develop minority coaches who then take other jobs in the NFL.

Can't wait to see how HFBoards responds to that information.

 

[Jacob582]

I'm very much against this idea, unless I get to decide who gets the extra picks.

It will be based on personal whim rather than reason or a set of rules.

 

[mouser]

The only one I’ve ever been in favor of is the college fa one. Which today is if you’ve made an offer to a 1st rd pick and they’ve declined when they either sign as a fa or return to the draft your given a 2nd rd pick of the same value I.e. 15th pick = 15th in the 2nd.

I’d like to see something similar for lower round picks where it’s the same. Allows teams to recoup draft capital from players choosing UFA after working with them for multiple years.

The current rule does not require teams to make an offer to college players. Teams can receive a compensation pick even if the player wants to sign.

 

[Kent Nilsson]

This thread has some very interesting posts.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

The NFL also gives compensatory picks to teams that develop minority coaches who then take other jobs in the NFL.

Can't wait to see how HFBoards responds to that information.

I left that out intentionally, but that rule among others are implied in my initial post.

The biggest critique I see here, is that the NHL had compensatory picks before and the system was exploited. To me - that seems like a relatively easy fix, fix the loophole. You don't hear about corruption regarding compensatory picks in other leagues.

I really appreciated reading @Jumptheshark post in this thread, he brings up a good point.

My biggest issue is that it would give to much power to Bettman to hand out picks willy nilly, but I think that could be well addressed with the proper rule.

I'm not really for or against it, but it is fun to think about. Would be extreme, but they could discourage tanking by giving the Cup Finals teams an extra pick, the possibilities are endless.

 

[Colezuki]

The current rule does not require teams to make an offer to college players. Teams can receive a compensation pick even if the player wants to sign.

I think I assumed it required an offer to be made at some point but fair point still standa

 

[Djp]

Watching the NFL draft now, it's interesting to see how many bonus picks there are tacked on to the end of each round. It is done in baseball as well.

For those who don't know, between the 1st and 2nd round, or 2nd or 3rd round, etc, some leagues decide to give certain teams additional picks in order to improve competition. These picks are typically awarded to bad teams as compensation for low payroll, a star player leaving via UFA, or just general sucking or unfortunate events.

The NFL is weird and has a ton of ways for teams to earn extra draft picks, and I don't think we should go that far, but maybe it would make sense if Calgary got an extra pick at the end of the 1st or 2nd round for when Gaudreau walked.

The comp picks have to do with net loss in the prior years free agency and who you lost vs signed. It’s closely tied to lost draft picked players you developed is also a factor.

it’s not about giving poor teams extra picks.
baseballin their draft also have compensatory picks tied to lost free agents and unsigned draft picks. In baseball, unlike hockey, if an 18 yr old is drafted and opts for college instead of signing the team don’t retain rights but actually lose rights. The player doesn’t re-enter the draft for 3 yrs. If redrafted out of college I think the teams retain their rights if they are between JR and SR year and return to college

also football has many more positions to draft from and niche fir players based on the system.

a 3-4 defense doesn’t draft the same players as a 4-4 defense. Teams that use certain run blocking schemes are designed around certain running styles thst not every running back fits. At RB and WR you have different role players thst team draft players for roles. A team want a receiver with speed, obp e with size/ height who can jump, and one with quickness.its rare to have one player have it all. Similsr with running backs….one with speed, one with power, one good at blocking , one good at short yardage and one that’s a good catcher of passes.

E ause of this you can get impact players much deeper in the draft than in hockey. with many players that fir certain systems but look awful in other systems.

 

[tp71]

Bring back the waiver draft!

 

[Djp]

There's already getting to pick earlier in rounds than better teams. That's enough. There's a limit to how far we can go to make everyone equal.

Compensatory picks were a bane because players' rights were getting swapped purely to gain compensatory picks, which meant more players were getting drafted and their rights held by teams instead of them "timing out" from being drafted and being able to sign as undrafted free agents. The draft is recognized as being important to the overall health of the league, which is why the players will accept it, but more picks were being created out of purely paper transactions where both teams got something (trading team got a low pick, the acquiring team got a compensatory pick) and the player got nothing.


If other ideas that have been lobbed in recent weeks are any indication, more fun for fans and some misguided notion of fairness.

Baseball changed compensatory rules whereUFAs walking awaypy gave back comp picks. Turn they changed it to be the team had to have him on their roster before that season by a certain date. This changed the UFA rental market in terms of compensation.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Get rid of the draft and the cap. Let teams sign prospects.

 

[Djp]

I left that out intentionally, but that rule among others are implied in my initial post.

The biggest critique I see here, is that the NHL had compensatory picks before and the system was exploited. To me - that seems like a relatively easy fix, fix the loophole. You don't hear about corruption regarding compensatory picks in other leagues.

I really appreciated reading @Jumptheshark post in this thread, he brings up a good point.

My biggest issue is that it would give to much power to Bettman to hand out picks willy nilly, but I think that could be well addressed with the proper rule.

I'm not really for or against it, but it is fun to think about. Would be extreme, but they could discourage tanking by giving the Cup Finals teams an extra pick, the possibilities are endless.

Right now the nfl draft compensatory system is still a black box.

 

[Kobe Armstrong]

The comp picks have to do with net loss in the prior years free agency and who you lost vs signed. It’s closely tied to lost draft picked players you developed is also a factor.

it’s not about giving poor teams extra picks.
baseballin their draft also have compensatory picks tied to lost free agents and unsigned draft picks. In baseball, unlike hockey, if an 18 yr old is drafted and opts for college instead of signing the team don’t retain rights but actually lose rights. The player doesn’t re-enter the draft for 3 yrs. If redrafted out of college I think the teams retain their rights if they are between JR and SR year and return to college

also football has many more positions to draft from and niche fir players based on the system.

a 3-4 defense doesn’t draft the same players as a 4-4 defense. Teams that use certain run blocking schemes are designed around certain running styles thst not every running back fits. At RB and WR you have different role players thst team draft players for roles. A team want a receiver with speed, obp e with size/ height who can jump, and one with quickness.its rare to have one player have it all. Similsr with running backs….one with speed, one with power, one good at blocking , one good at short yardage and one that’s a good catcher of passes.

E ause of this you can get impact players much deeper in the draft than in hockey. with many players that fir certain systems but look awful in other systems.

Appreciate the reply but you are wrong about baseball. It is designed to give small market/low revenue teams a leg up in a league without a salary cap. Here is the rule:

"The 10 lowest-revenue clubs and the clubs from the 10 smallest markets are eligible to receive a Competitive Balance pick (fewer than 20 clubs are in the mix each year, as some clubs qualify under both criteria). All eligible teams are assigned a pick, either in Competitive Balance Round A or Round B. Round A falls between the first and second rounds of the Rule 4 draft, while Round B comes between the second and third."

Also to the bolded and what follows - I am well aware of that, but it doesn't have any relevance to whether or not the NHL should add compensatory picks.

 

[Djp]

Appreciate the reply but you are wrong about baseball. It is designed to give small market/low revenue teams a leg up in a league without a salary cap. Here is the rule:

"The 10 lowest-revenue clubs and the clubs from the 10 smallest markets are eligible to receive a Competitive Balance pick (fewer than 20 clubs are in the mix each year, as some clubs qualify under both criteria). All eligible teams are assigned a pick, either in Competitive Balance Round A or Round B. Round A falls between the first and second rounds of the Rule 4 draft, while Round B comes between the second and third."

Also to the bolded and what follows - I am well aware of that, but it doesn't have any relevance to whether or not the NHL should add compensatory picks.

nfl and nhl have fixed team caps across the league. Baseball has a loose cap. Those exceeding a threshold pay a penalty.

baseball is also exempt from many business rules other leagues must follow. Yes a big factor is the cheaper own just looking at profit vs team winning. In the nhl most teams don’t turn a profit unless they get playoff games. There is an incentive for a team to get better if they want to make money.

as an aside….under expansion im all foe expansion teams start drafting player 2 yrs before they start here they get 2 picks per round. Thrn a year before it’s one pick per round.thrn when they start up they can field an AHL team. Other option is in expansion draft like if you were adding 2 teams they would each pick 16 players from other 32 teams and each get a prospect/ draft rights from picked players by each of the 33 teams. Then they have a 16 team nhl roster and 32 players in a prospect pool Where some are tweezers, some are AHL players, and others are designed to be future year prosp3cts.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Only thing that would make sense would be a compensatory pick if a player refused to sign with the team that drafted them. I think that would be reasonable.

Now most of the good ones can end up getting traded for some kind of return anyways (Fox, Vesey, Portillo, Thrun, etc.), so probably not that big of a deal, but if you can't find a taker and the guy just walks because he didn't want to sign with you? Kind of sucks.

 

[SwedishFire]

Watching the NFL draft now, it's interesting to see how many bonus picks there are tacked on to the end of each round. It is done in baseball as well.

For those who don't know, between the 1st and 2nd round, or 2nd or 3rd round, etc, some leagues decide to give certain teams additional picks in order to improve competition. These picks are typically awarded to bad teams as compensation for low payroll, a star player leaving via UFA, or just general sucking or unfortunate events.

The NFL is weird and has a ton of ways for teams to earn extra draft picks, and I don't think we should go that far, but maybe it would make sense if Calgary got an extra pick at the end of the 1st or 2nd round for when Gaudreau walked.

Yes. At the end pf 2nd round.