Should the Flyers trade their two 2nds to move up?

[briererocks]

Last year, the Flyers traded their 29th pick and their 60th pick to grab konency with the 24th pick. In retrospect, the trade looks very smart.

If you look at past drafts, the chances of hitting with a second while not negligible are pretty small. Also, I am not too impressed by kunin, rubtsov or Jones. I think keller, jost, brown, nylander, are clearly in a different class.

I think trading the 18th 42 and 52 for a top 12 pick to grab a nylander, brown or keller would be very appealing. I would also throw in a third if necessary. The top picks are much more valuable than later picks.

Agree?

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[jabba2]

If they think they can grab a cant miss player that their confident in? Then sure.

 

[DrinkFightFlyers]

Really depends on who is available. Can't fairly answer the question today. If someone good is available, then yes. I wouldn't do it just to get a first rounder.

 

[briererocks]

Really depends on who is available. Can't fairly answer the question today. If someone good is available, then yes. I wouldn't do it just to get a first rounder.

I would.do it to grab one of keller, jost, brown or nylander. Obviously the top forwards- matthrws laine pulj dubouos and tkauck will go before then. .

 

[GKJ]

I get the percentages, and typically I'm all about them. But I trust the scouts and organization and hold them to a standard to use our 2nd rounds picks wisely. The obviously don't all pan out, but it's not their fault other teams draft poorly. Good teams have personnel who do an adequate job. I want to be one of them. They're still a valuable asset, and even more so when you use them poorly.

 

[briererocks]

I get the percentages, and typically I'm all about them. But I trust the scouts and organization and hold them to a standard to use our 2nd rounds picks wisely. The obviously don't all pan out, but it's not their fault other teams draft poorly. Good teams have personnel who do an adequate job. I want to be one of them. They're still a valuable asset, and even more so when you use them poorly.

I think its important to be humble and realize you are not going to dratstically outperform your competitors.

For a team drafting a defenseman, gettting the Flyers 18th and two 2nd round picks may make alot of sense. They can still get Bean and possibly Fabbro who they might be equally high on and add two additional assets. For the Flyers who want to draft a forward, adding Keller or Nylander or Brown versus Rubtsov, Kunin or Jones would be a huge improvement.

 

[Striiker]

The only real answer to this question is: it depends.

It depends on who's available late in the first.

It depends on who wants to move back.

It depends on how much our scouts like the second round talents.

This isn't something that can be answered until we get late into the first round.

 

[Winston Wolf]

I'd rather try to get Anaheim's 24th and 30th for the 18th and something small. I'd love to trade up and get Brown or Keller, but 2 2nds isn't getting it done for a pick with those guys still on the board.

I'd still like to see if Hextall could get Edmonton and Vancouver to bid against each other for Simmonds, but I don't think he has any plans of trading him.

 

[briererocks]

I'd rather try to get Anaheim's 24th and 30th for the 18th and something small. I'd love to trade up and get Brown or Keller, but 2 2nds isn't getting it done for a pick with those guys still on the board.

I'd still like to see if Hextall could get Edmonton and Vancouver to bid against each other for Simmonds, but I don't think he has any plans of trading him.

Two 2nds might not get it done, but it might. Imagine you are Colorado and you are high on Bean and Fabbro who have yet to be picked. You might gamble that one of them will still be there at 18. Similarly, if Ottawa is high on McLeod and a defensman they might trade down. Last year the Flyers moved up 5 spots (from 29 to 24) by trading the 60th. It is possible that two seconds allows them to move up 8 or 7 spots. If they have to throw in an additional 3rd or Hagg I would be ok with that.

 

[Grare]

That's a tough question, we seem to have the ammo to move up for a top 10 pick, with the direction the Flyers seem to be going, it may be awhile to have that opportunity again

 

[Winston Wolf]

Two 2nds might not get it done, but it might. Imagine you are Colorado and you are high on Bean and Fabbro who have yet to be picked. You might gamble that one of them will still be there at 18. Similarly, if Ottawa is high on McLeod and a defensman they might trade down. Last year the Flyers moved up 5 spots (from 29 to 24) by trading the 60th. It is possible that two seconds allows them to move up 8 or 7 spots. If they have to throw in an additional 3rd or Hagg I would be ok with that.

It's certainly possible. I just think to get into those tier of players (Jost, Brown, Keller, etc.) you're probably going to have to trade more than it might be worth. But yeah, anything can happen.

 

[briererocks]

It's certainly possible. I just think to get into those tier of players (Jost, Brown, Keller, etc.) you're probably going to have to trade more than it might be worth. But yeah, anything can happen.

The Flyers finally have some non-essential prospects, such as Hagg and Friedman etc.., that they can use to sweeten the pot without really hurting themselves. I would like to see it, but if they cannot I would like to see them move back and maybe add another 2nd.

 

[Tripod]

I see no reason to move back. The tier seems to drop around 22. Stay at 18. Then use other assets to move from 48 upward to go after another guy you want.walk away with 2 legit top 6 players.

If we keep our 1st, 2nds, and 2 3rds, I would then try and get creative with our other picks. Like trade our 4th...for a 4th next year and a 5th/6th this year.

Yes if drops you down this year, but it starts the building of next years draft too. Then do the same thing with one of our 5th if possible. On draft day, people will overrate a pick if there is a guy we want. Take advantage of that by adding extra picks to next year.

And note...I am only talking about doing it 2 times...which would give us 10 picks starting next year already.

 

[GKJ]

I think its important to be humble and realize you are not going to dratstically outperform your competitors.

It's not about drastically outperforming competitors. Some of them already suck. Some of them don't. It doesn't mean every pick, but the standards shouldn't change because a pick is 44th instead of 24th.

 

[Tripod]

After seeing Bobby Macs list of who could be there when we pick in the 2nd round, I wouldn't bother.

If we could get Pu and Dahlen with our 2nds instead of moving up and getting only one of Benson/Kyrou/Dube, we are much better off IMO.

 

[Hiesenberg]

2nds are pretty valuable in the the cap era. Keep them. Just keep stacking prospects.

 

[briererocks]

2nds are pretty valuable in the the cap era. Keep them. Just keep stacking prospects.

If you look at the chance of success it is very small especially for forwards. In the second round you can get a good defensman who is undersized but has potential. Forwards are much easier to project and rarely does a good forward last until the second round. It happens, e.g. Krejci and Bergeron, but is relatively uncommon. I think even more so recently as drafting has improved.

 

[Hiesenberg]

Yes, the chances are small, but if you draft more, you give yourself more opportunities. I've seen plenty of kids picked in the 20s that fail, I've seen them in the teens fail. Just because you draft higher means you automatically got a winner.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Wouldn't mind using one of the picks in 2 or 3 on Day, could be a real steal if he ever gets it all together.

 

[Rebels57]

If you look at the chance of success it is very small especially for forwards. In the second round you can get a good defensman who is undersized but has potential. Forwards are much easier to project and rarely does a good forward last until the second round. It happens, e.g. Krejci and Bergeron, but is relatively uncommon. I think even more so recently as drafting has improved.

Brandon Saad
Boone Jenner
Tomas Jurco
Victor Rask
Matt Nieto
Nikita Kucherov

All drafted in the 2nd round in 2011

The one thing about 2nd rounders is that they are usually 1-2 years further away than 1st rounders. They are longer term projects but provide excellent depth to good teams.

 

[briererocks]

Brandon Saad
Boone Jenner
Tomas Jurco
Victor Rask
Matt Nieto
Nikita Kucherov

All drafted in the 2nd round in 2011

The one thing about 2nd rounders is that they are usually 1-2 years further away than 1st rounders. They are longer term projects but provide excellent depth to good teams.

I'm guessing you cherry picked 2011. Two good players and some bottom six players. Most years there are not that many good players. also, saad was in begining of second round not towards the middle or late in the round.

 

[sa cyred]

Don't know where the not likeing Kunin is coming from. All scouting reports say he has the ability to be a very good top 6 forward. Top end offensive skill. Plays wing and center. Ton of heart and leadership abilities. Carried his college team as a freshman.

What more can you ask for?

 

[Jack de la Hoya]

I think I'd rather package the 2nds or a 2nd and a 3rd to move up for someone like Dahlen in the 2nd round. The Flyers should get a good player at 18. I don't think there's a ton of reason to move up 4-5 spots.

I see no reason to move back. The tier seems to drop around 22. Stay at 18. Then use other assets to move from 48 upward to go after another guy you want.walk away with 2 legit top 6 players.

If we keep our 1st, 2nds, and 23rd, I would then try and get creative with our other picks. Like trade our 4th...for a 4th next year and a 5th/6th this year.

Yes if drops you down this year, but it starts the building of next years draft too. Then do the same thing with one of our 5th if possible. On draft day, people will overrate a pick if there is a guy we want. Take advantage of that by adding extra picks to next year.

And note...I am only talking about doing it 2 times...which would give us 10 picks starting next year already.

Yeah, I should have read further in the thread... This.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I don't think you're really going to find many partners to tango with in that range. There's a good drop off from there to #18 & this isn't exactly a deep draft so the extra picks might not be enticing enough either for a team to drop back.

 

[Rebels57]

I'm guessing you cherry picked 2011. Two good players and some bottom six players. Most years there are not that many good players. also, saad was in begining of second round not towards the middle or late in the round.

No. I started there because 2012-2015 is too recent to assess.

Saad and Kucherov are not just good players. They are 1st liners. Boone Jenner just had 30 plus goals. Hes the closest player to Simmonds and Lucic in the league. Rask has been a pleasant surprise for Carolina. Nieto and Jurco are good depth players.

2010 the Kings landed Tyler Toffoli in the 2nd

2009 the Avs found Ryan O'Reilly

2008 the Rangers got Derek Stepan

Just sayin..theres a few forwards that are 2nd round gems every year