Should the Canucks trade Tanev?

[elitepete]

He's Chris Tanev.

He's not Drew Doughty.

You have to temper expectations on what he is, and not forget who he's playing for - he's playing for a poor organization, and that will naturally hurt a player's value the longer he remains on a struggling team.

For a team that is hurting for top-end talent, as long as the return is reasonable, then you move him. Holding onto him doesn't benefit you at all.

So because our team sucks, we should trade him for less than what he is worth to our team?

Lol, got it.

 

[elitepete]

He's Chris Tanev.

He's not Drew Doughty.

You have to temper expectations on what he is, and not forget who he's playing for - he's playing for a poor organization, and that will naturally hurt a player's value the longer he remains on a struggling team.

For a team that is hurting for top-end talent, as long as the return is reasonable, then you move him. Holding onto him doesn't benefit you at all.

We need top end talent, and can trade Tanev for it? But you just said we should temper our expectations when it comes to a Tanev trade. So how are we going to trade Tanev for top end talent?

 

[CanaFan]

Justin Schultz
Martin Marincin
Jeff Petry

By 'ruined' - players who showed substantial initial promise, were rushed into playing top-pairing shutdown minutes because there was nobody else available, got destroyed and completely lost their confidence, and were eventually dumped by the organization for nothing. And then recovered to an extent in better organizations. Klefbom was going that direction as well until they picked up Larsson for him to play with.

The value that Tanev could provide as a partner to a developing Juolevi - as an example - is immense.

Who sheltered Provorov in Philadelphia?

 

[Nick Lang]

If we can get good value out of him we should trade him. He is probably our most valuable trading chip.

 

[Tak7]

We need top end talent, and can trade Tanev for it? But you just said we should temper our expectations when it comes to a Tanev trade. So how are we going to trade Tanev for top end talent?

Picks and prospects.

Higher draft pick due to tearing down the roster.

 

[Tak7]

So because our team sucks, we should trade him for less than what he is worth to our team?

Lol, got it.

He's not worth anything to this team other than his trade value lol - it's a 27th overall hockey team.

 

[vancityluongo]

Who sheltered Provorov in Philadelphia?

Who in our prospect pool on D is even remotely close to the prospect Provorov was/is?

 

[VanCity Millionaires]

Schultz is perfect example of a player getting ruined by playing top pairing minutes when he wasn’t ready to. He’s lucky he got traded to a team that is good a developing d, and has been able to salvage a respectable career.

Petry is another player that I think would have ended up much better if he started out being sheltered on a deeper d core.

Jordan Oesterle playing well on Chicago now.

There are others that I can’t think of right now.

But who said that any picks or prospects we get are going to be playing top pairing minutes?? That is what we have Edler, Hutton, Stecher, Biega, etc. for. I don't see any advocating to give Juolevi 20 min a night next year. The argument just doesn't hold up. We are not the Oilers, there is a lot of mature leaders on this team, and even our young players (ala Boeser and Horvat) have shown maturity beyond their young ages. We are not dealing with coke-head Taylor Hall and party-boy Justin Schultz!

Do I need to go on? The time is now to cash in on Tanev. It is poor asset managment to hold on to an aging core, until they have no more value. Is this no what we have all been clamouring for for the last 3-4 years? Now that we're facing it head on some of you seem to be getting cold feet; the exact thing most of us having been accusing Benning of.

 

[krutovsdonut]

He's not worth anything to this team other than his trade value lol - it's a 27th overall hockey team.

tanev has a lot of value to this team right now. he stabilizes the blue line, which greatly assists the development of younger players. if the team regroups once horvat returns that benefit will be more obvious.

trading tanev would be a sacrifice and a big risk. the only reason i would consider it is the fear tanev will not be tanev shortly.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Yes, it is a consideration. To a point. It cannot dominate the decision considering the first 10 years of Tanev’s playing years are spent and the remaining 10 years (if he even has that) will likely be at a lower level of play (with a higher $ hit) than he is today. It would be easy to argue that >50% of Tanev’s career value is already spent. Yet to a playoff team, his immediate value (this year and next 1-2 years) is still quite high. Beyond that it drops off sharply.

And considering his current value, we should be able to get one or two B-value assets in return. These assets will have close to a 50/50 chance to succeed/bust similar to a kid like Dahlen or a draft pick like McCann/Boeser.

So you are weighing the value of this player’s longer remaining career, cheaper cost, and better alignment with this team’s competitive window with the risk of busting.

All needs to be considered but in the end I think it clearly ends up in favour of trading rather than retaining. Esp if you factor in that Tanev becomes a UFA in the summer of 2020. If we aren’t a competitive team by then he may leave and then none of these additional years, mentorship, etc will be obtained.

I'm honestly very torn on trading Tanev. It's very 50/50 for me in terms of how it could pan out. There's a solid argument to both sides in keeping or trading him.

Like if we are a contender (or at least a playoff threat) when he's 32/33 years old, he's still a valuable asset for us to compete. I presume he's a relatively effective player until he's 33, and a capable top 4/luxurious bottom pairing dman until he's 35/36.

It very well could end up like the Bouwmeester trade where Calgary was left with nothing.

If he does want to leave when he becomes a UFA, absolutely trade him. But that remains to be seen, so it's all speculation.

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

Not this season. I want to see Tanev paired with Juolevi next season. Next seasons deadline makes more sense to me.

 

[elitepete]

But who said that any picks or prospects we get are going to be playing top pairing minutes?? That is what we have Edler, Hutton, Stecher, Biega, etc. for. I don't see any advocating to give Juolevi 20 min a night next year. The argument just doesn't hold up. We are not the Oilers, there is a lot of mature leaders on this team, and even our young players (ala Boeser and Horvat) have shown maturity beyond their young ages. We are not dealing with coke-head Taylor Hall and party-boy Justin Schultz!

Do I need to go on? The time is now to cash in on Tanev. It is poor asset managment to hold on to an aging core, until they have no more value. Is this no what we have all been clamouring for for the last 3-4 years? Now that we're facing it head on some of you seem to be getting cold feet; the exact thing most of us having been accusing Benning of.

None of those guys can play top pairing minutes lol we suck when they play top pairing minutes

 

[elitepete]

He's not worth anything to this team other than his trade value lol - it's a 27th overall hockey team.

Wrong. Already answered this nonsense approach previously.

 

[CanaFan]

None of those guys can play top pairing minutes lol we suck when they play top pairing minutes

We also suck when Tanev and Edler play top pairing minutes. Or have you missed the past 2 1/2 seasons?

 

[elitepete]

We also suck when Tanev and Edler play top pairing minutes. Or have you missed the past 2 1/2 seasons?

Are we Edmonton 2009-2015 level, Colorado 2017 level, or Arizona 2018 level bad? Not even close.

 

[CanaFan]

I'm honestly very torn on trading Tanev. It's very 50/50 for me in terms of how it could pan out. There's a solid argument to both sides in keeping or trading him.

Like if we are a contender (or at least a playoff threat) when he's 32/33 years old, he's still a valuable asset for us to compete. I presume he's a relatively effective player until he's 33, and a capable top 4/luxurious bottom pairing dman until he's 35/36.

It very well could end up like the Bouwmeester trade where Calgary was left with nothing.

If he does want to leave when he becomes a UFA, absolutely trade him. But that remains to be seen, so it's all speculation.

The problem is you may not know that until the moment he signs with another team on July 1. You may have every intention to sign him and he may have every intention to listen but there’s a 4 month gap between the TDL and July 1. It’s difficult in practice to do what you are saying.

 

[CanaFan]

Are we Edmonton 2009-2015 level, Colorado 2017 level, or Arizona 2018 level bad? Not even close.

Does it matter?

2017 Colorado is now 2018 Colorado who, if you’ve noticed, are way ahead of us in the standings.

Who cares if you are 50 pts bad or 60 pts bad? They are both the same, outside of lottery considerations.

 

[elitepete]

2017 Colorado is now 2018 Colorado who, if you’ve noticed, are way ahead of us in the standings.

What guarantee is there that we would turn it around within one year like the Avs instead of being a laughingstock for a decade like the oilers?

Who cares if you are 50 pts bad or 60 pts bad? They are both the same, outside of lottery considerations.

Is this a joke? Of course it matters. Do I have to list all the Oilers players who’s development went off the rails?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

The problem is you may not know that until the moment he signs with another team on July 1. You may have every intention to sign him and he may have every intention to listen but there’s a 4 month gap between the TDL and July 1. It’s difficult in practice to do what you are saying.

Not necessarily. You still have months prior to the TDL to negotiate an extension.

 

[CanaFan]

Not necessarily. You still have months prior to the TDL to negotiate an extension.

Yes but what if he doesn’t sign? Players can want to resign but still wait until July 1 to see what all their options are. Are you saying you’d trade him on Feb 28 if he hasn’t signed an extension already? If so then sure, but a) You’ve decreases your chances to resign him on July 1 while also b) Decreasing his value to that of a pure playoff rental.

Seems to me it would be more prudent to make a move earlier in the season or even in his contract to either maximize your certainty that he will resign or to maximize his trade value. Waiting until the last minute risks a Hamhuis 2.0 situation.

 

[CanaFan]

What guarantee is there that we would turn it around within one year like the Avs instead of being a laughingstock for a decade like the oilers?



Is this a joke? Of course it matters. Do I have to list all the Oilers players who’s development went off the rails?

How about you do it with Colorado players that went off the rails following their disasterous 2017 season. Since you listed them as an example, I assume this is a fair request. Who got ruined as a result of their 48 pt season vs our 69 pt season?

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Yes but what if he doesn’t sign? Players can want to resign but still wait until July 1 to see what all their options are. Are you saying you’d trade him on Feb 28 if he hasn’t signed an extension already? If so then sure, but a) You’ve decreases your chances to resign him on July 1 while also b) Decreasing his value to that of a pure playoff rental.

Seems to me it would be more prudent to make a move earlier in the season or even in his contract to either maximize your certainty that he will resign or to maximize his trade value. Waiting until the last minute risks a Hamhuis 2.0 situation.

You're acting like you can't gauge a player's interests in re-signing during negotiations. Deal him if he seems like he's hesitant to re-sign/wants too much money/doesn't want to be a part of the team. Pretty straight forward.

 

[CanaFan]

You're acting like you can't gauge a player's interests in re-signing during negotiations. Deal him if he seems like he's hesitant to re-sign/wants too much money/doesn't want to be a part of the team. Pretty straight forward.

That’s what they tried to do with Hamhuis.

 

[elitepete]

How about you do it with Colorado players that went off the rails following their disasterous 2017 season. Since you listed them as an example, I assume this is a fair request. Who got ruined as a result of their 48 pt season vs our 69 pt season?

They only went through that for 1 yeat, so they got lucky.

Plus Duchene asked for a trade...

 

[CanaFan]

They only went through that for 1 yeat, so they got lucky.

Plus Duchene asked for a trade...

Or competent management?

You said the difference in “badness” between being the Canucks and teams like Colorado was large, yet Colorado bounced back with no ill effects.

How does this jive with your earlier assertion? We can all agree that being run like the Oilers is not ideal, however the Oilers problems and mistakes were numerous and well beyond simply not having a Tanev to shelter their D. It also involved coaching instability, poor drafting, focus on forwards to the detriment of D, unstable goaltending, and an inability to attract and sign UFAs.

It’s incorrect to conflate the outcome of all of those problems with only the question at hand (trading Tanev) so let’s look at a team that didn’t have so many issues to cloud things. Colorado fits the bill. Or we could use Arizona, who actually have a Tanev in OEL but are also mired at the bottom of the league. What do these two teams tell us about whether we should trade Tanev or not?