Should team accomplishments ever be considered when inducting a player into the HHOF?

[BayStreetBully]

Yet the grind line was a huge part of that teams success in the playoffs. You need those kinds of players for a cup run. You could say Yzerman doesn't have 3 cups and the legacy as a leader that he has without the TEAM that surrounded him.

My point is the Stanley cup takes more of a team effort than people want to believe. A single individual doesn't hold more value than the many other factors that are needed.

I'd argue it's easier to replace McCarty than it is to replace Yzerman or a Fedorov. Yzerman needs a key contributor on the grind line to win his cup, but it didn't necessarily have to be McCarty. It can't be just anyone, but it didn't have to necessarily be McCarty.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Team accomplishments are also used against a player. "He played on a stacked team...so"

 

[gorangers0525]

Playoff success should play a role, but only if you contributed to that success....and many who do still don't touch a cup.


Short answer, no.

 

[cowboy82nd]

The short answer ... NO!!!!! The long answer, the HHOF is an individual award and team accomplishments or lack of team accomplishments shouldn't help or hinder the individual.

 

[likid]

Just curious. How do you see Kopitar regarding HHOF?

Two times SC, in both runs best scorer in PO, in both runs he was close to Conn-Smythe, nine years in a row best scorer of Kings, but on the other hand not much individual awards.

Could a fact, that he is comming from such non-traditional hockey country, play a role here?

 

[BayStreetBully]

Just curious. How do you see Kopitar regarding HHOF?

Two times SC, in both runs best scorer in PO, in both runs he was close to Conn-Smythe, nine years in a row best scorer of Kings, but on the other hand not much individual awards.

Could a fact, that he is comming from such non-traditional hockey country, play a role here?

I think he's already earned his spot in the Hall of Fame. The fact that he brought the cup to LA makes him an even bigger deal too. He's done enough to get in, no matter what country he's from. But it's a great hockey accomplishment for Slovenia.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Having a cup or two should not push a player without an individual resume befitting of the Hall into it.

And not having any cups at all should not push a player with an individual resume befitting of the Hall out of it.

I disagree. I look at Andreychuk for example. IMO, he's a HOF'er no matter what, but since he also captained a team to a SC while still scoring 640 goals makes him a no brainer imo.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Every case deserves its own scrutiny. There's no real template for the HHOF outside of clearly obvious achievements.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

It does and it will.

When say Jonathan Toews makes it his near entire case will be due to his team accomplishments as opposed to his results as an individual.

 

[GreatGonzo]

I'd argue it's easier to replace McCarty than it is to replace Yzerman or a Fedorov. Yzerman needs a key contributor on the grind line to win his cup, but it didn't necessarily have to be McCarty. It can't be just anyone, but it didn't have to necessarily be McCarty.

That's fair. The grind line as a unit worked well, not just McCarthy was there, but he was a huge physical and intimidating presence that was well valued for the the wings.

Team accomplishments are also used against a player. "He played on a stacked team...so"

Depends on the player. We saw what players like Yzerman did without the cups and without a great supporting cast around him. He was one of the best offensive players during the Gretzky/Lemieux era.

Many of the players who won multiple cups would be HOFers if they never would have.

I disagree. I look at Andreychuk for example. IMO, he's a HOF'er no matter what, but since he also captained a team to a SC while still scoring 640 goals makes him a no brainer imo.

Andreychuk would be a weak induction regardless. He was never a top player during his playing years, never "elite" actually. He had longevity but for a good 10 years, he compiled a good amount of his points due to that. He was a good player and good goal scorer, but was never good enough to be considered one of the best

Being the captain of a Stanley cup winning team is nice and all, but he's the perfect example as to why it's flawed using that as HOF credentials.

 

[SladeWilson23]

Andreychuk would be a weak induction regardless. He was never a top player during his playing years, never "elite" actually. He had longevity but for a good 10 years, he compiled a good amount of his points due to that. He was a good player and good goal scorer, but was never good enough to be considered one of the best

Being the captain of a Stanley cup winning team is nice and all, but he's the perfect example as to why it's flawed using that as HOF credentials.

All I'm saying is that 640 goals alone is enough to make him a HOF'er. The fact he did captain a team to a Cup puts him over the top, at least for me.

 

[GreatGonzo]

All I'm saying is that 640 goals alone is enough to make him a HOF'er. The fact he did captain a team to a Cup puts him over the top, at least for me.

It's a very impressive accomplishment. But his career screams "compiler."

Again, captaining a team to a cup isn't a HOF feature...i know for many it's like a requirement, but captaincy isn't something you can measure or an actual skill. No one can say that the lightning wouldn't have won the cup if he wasn't captain.

He may get in, but it will be on a weak year where there aren't to many strong candidates.

 

[MXD]

Just curious. How do you see Kopitar regarding HHOF?

Two times SC, in both runs best scorer in PO, in both runs he was close to Conn-Smythe, nine years in a row best scorer of Kings, but on the other hand not much individual awards.

Could a fact, that he is comming from such non-traditional hockey country, play a role here?

Kopitar is one of these players where the team award could imply that he is a better player than his purely individual achievements indicate.

This said, the playoff scoring stats help him, and there's more than quite a few people who think Williams shouldn't have won the Smythe to begin with.

His case his distinguished from Rick MacLeish (not in the HHOf, let his team in scoring for both Cup wins) in that Kopitar is clearly the best forward on his team, and probably the 2nd best player. Something that couldn't be said of MacLeish.