Confirmed with Link: Nashville buys out Turris

[ViktorBaeArvidsson]

2017-18 - GP: 65 / G: 13 / A: 29 / P: 42
2018-19 - GP: 55 / G: 7 / A: 16 / P: 23
2019-20 - GP: 62 / G: 9 / A: 22 / P: 31

I mean this guy is Captain Invisible, anytime I watch a game I never notice him out there, and we’re paying him 6 million dollars for the next 4 years. It looked like a solid signing at the moment, but he has fallen off a cliff. I really don’t think we can move him for anything unless some team really likes him somehow and is willing to take on his deal, but man. I just think we should buy him out, 2 years of mediocre 3rd line numbers for 6 mil, yeah no thanks.

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[GoldOnGold]

I honestly think we could trade him for something, but it would probably involve taking another bad contract back. Abdelkader is barely an NHL player, but he would probably be possible and we'd save 1 year and almost 2 million per year. Matheson could also be possible, but his contract is 2 years longer and only a little only a million less.

I think some team in need of a 2C (Minnesota/Detroit/Florida/Rangers) will be willing to take a flyer on him.

 

[drwpreds]

2017-18 - GP: 65 / G: 13 / A: 29 / P: 42
2018-19 - GP: 55 / G: 7 / A: 16 / P: 23
2019-20 - GP: 62 / G: 9 / A: 22 / P: 31

I mean this guy is Captain Invisible, anytime I watch a game I never notice him out there, and we’re paying him 6 million dollars for the next 4 years. It looked like a solid signing at the moment, but he has fallen off a cliff. I really don’t think we can move him for anything unless some team really likes him somehow and is willing to take on his deal, but man. I just think we should buy him out, 2 years of mediocre 3rd line numbers for 6 mil, yeah no thanks.

Looking at those numbers just boggles the mind- 29 goals in 3 seasons.....

 

[BigFatCat999]

31 thoughts covered this 2 million for 8 years

 

[Armourboy]

31 thoughts covered this 2 million for 8 years

I'd rather try and retain that 2 million and shorten up the number of years, even if that means taking someone back for a year or two.

 

[Armourboy]

Looking at those numbers just boggles the mind- 29 goals in 3 seasons.....

In his defense, we know he was beat up pretty bad in that 2nd season. He also spent an enormous amount of time in Lavi's doghouse this season as well.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Turris just needs a return to his comfortable niche on a consistent line. There's no physical decline with him, he has all the same tools he had in his first year with us, and as in his more productive seasons in Ottawa. But what he lacks is the same icetime and utilization. He's not going to get Mark Stone as a winger ever again, but even just Fiala and Smith worked well enough for him to get into the 50-pt range. As long as you gift him that opportunity and don't mix it up too much and he gets to touch some PP ice, I think he would produce.

We're just not in a position anymore to bestow those sorts of gifts on him. We signed Duchene, and that instantly turned Turris into a nomad in our lineup, and he can't seem to handle any other role. He's not like a Jarnkrok who can just bounce around from line to line and still seem to find a way to chip in.

But I don't think an 8-year cap penalty is anything that Poile will EVER sign up for. So forget the buyout. He'll either find a swap of misfit toys that sees Turris traded elsewhere, or we'll just hold onto Turris and keep mixing him up until something new comes up.

Forget Abdelkader in a trade... Detroit may have a use for Turris, but the guys they tend to offer are Abdelkader and Nielsen and those players are finished. Even Turris as a nomadic square peg on our team is better than they are. Detroit would have to come up with something different.

Buffalo is another potential destination. The deal Scoresberg suggested around Colin Miller sounds reasonable for us. I was ok with Turris ($1.125M retained) + 3rd for Miller.

Edmonton is looking for a #3C. I don't have high confidence that Turris would flourish in that role. But for them if they just dump off James Neal's contract, it's not really any difference to them, and they get a center, and we get a winger, and maybe either of us would luck out and get a contribution at those two positions we need more.

So I think there are some trade angles anyway that Poile should be pursuing. And he should be willing to consider at least a little bit of balancing cap retention --- that might give us a little dead cap, but only for 4 years, not 8. I don't think we should be in buyout territory for Turris yet. And I don't think we should be at the point of taking completely "finished" contracts on players like Abdelkader who we can't even hope for a contribution from. Trading Turris to Detroit with $2M retained for just a 4th round pick, say, is better than those kinds of deals.

 

[Kat Predator]

I have to question management's decision making on this issue. Bluntly, it's simply an oddly built roster as the results demonstrated.

Turris and Duchene are like photocopies of the same player: a borderline 1-/2+C player. On a team with the talent, depth, and luck to put a consistently solid second line on the ice night after night, these guys can produce and clearly make a GM think they are a solid 1-/2+C deserving of a large chunk of the cap. They'll even be able to move up to the 1C and give the team something, even if that something is not quite enough over time. They are going to struggle when their wings are revolving doors and/or they are bounced up and down the lineup or back and forth from center to wing, as has been the case with both of them except for the "golden era" when Turris first arrived here and was super glued between Fiala and Smith. And their size/physicality and grit combined with the hefty contract make them poor investments as a bottom six center, where a cheaper, younger, more imposing player is better suited.

In a 31 team league and a sport where injuries are frequent, putting together a high-end second line that is on the ice night after night is a rarity. And that draws into question the entire approach, especially when throwing $14M of cap at the position.

 

[Byrddog]

"On March 20, the New York Post's Larry Brooks reported the league informed the NHL Players' Association that revenue losses for this season could reach as high as $1 billion. That would significantly affect the salary cap for 2020-21." These numbers in march did not bake in the proposed start of next season fanless. Most teams including Nashville can not afford a Turris type Buyout.

"The Nashville Predators attempted to trade away struggling center Kyle Turris last summer, but couldn't find any takers for his hefty contract paying out $6 million annually to the end of 2023-24. A penalty-free buyout for a club carrying over $72 million in cap payroll would give them some welcome breathing room."
The league was considering compliance buyouts in March as well but they did not end up in the contract. They are still considering them but the same issue exisits. Even though the buyout would relieve the Cap issues that 14 of the 22 Cap team suffer from it would place a financial burden on most of the teams in real dollars. Turris situation for example the real dollar impact of buying him out today is 16 mil according to Puckpedia. To replace that warm body will cost 2 mil per year so that is another 8 mil for a total real dollar cost of 24 mil to the team. Any cost savings from his remaining contract would be eaten up by his replacement. So the question is can a 2 mil guy be found that is an improvement? Now some may argue that it makes room for a ELC and thats true but The real 16 mil is still out the door and I doubt the owners would buy in to that.

 

[lstcyr]

Thought/question. If we trade Turris and retain $2 million per year (just an example) and the team he goes to decides to buy him out the year after, leaving three years on his contract, how does our $2 million retention work? Would it be:
other team buys him out and cap costs $3 million per year for 6 years and we pay $2 million cash (or is it retained cost against salary cap) to other team for three years. Or something else?

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Thought/question. If we trade Turris and retain $2 million per year (just an example) and the team he goes to decides to buy him out the year after, leaving three years on his contract, how does our $2 million retention work? Would it be:
other team buys him out and cap costs $3 million per year for 6 years and we pay $2 million cash (or is it retained cost against salary cap) to other team for three years. Or something else?

I believe that any changes to the player's circumstance has no change on the cap hit/obligation to the retaining team. If the new team buys him out, the buyout amount and cap hit is calculated off the non-retained salary amount. Can't find a source that addresses this, but it falls in line with other salary retention scenarios (e.g. player assigned to the AHL, etc...).

I'd probably want to see a fresh season with Hynes (who seems to like Turris much more than Lavy did) before going the retention route. It's possible Seattle could surprise us and take a flyer on him in the expansion draft and with Bonino only under contract for 1 more season, the excess center depth isn't the worst thing. I'm not sure we do anything with the $4M saved from trading him with retention anyway with the Weber recapture now starting to lurk (at the least not on any long-term big contracts).

 

[BigFatCat999]

Currently there is a trade thread for Turris for Zuccarello. Other than Zucc's NMC, I think it's a winner

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Currently there is a trade thread for Turris for Zuccarello. Other than Zucc's NMC, I think it's a winner

That's not an insignificant "other than." We'd have to protect him in the expansion draft which means exposing either Arvy or one of the d-men.

 

[BigFatCat999]

That's not an insignificant "other than." We'd have to protect him in the expansion draft which means exposing either Arvy or one of the d-men.

Then we are back to the buyout situation but instead of 2 mil 8 years it become 2 mil 6 years

 

[Predsanddead24]

That's not an insignificant "other than." We'd have to protect him in the expansion draft which means exposing either Arvy or one of the d-men.

I thought we could refuse to honor the NMC after a trade. I believe we did that during the Subban trade but could be mistaken.

I bet if we do that trade Turris is going to team back up with Fiala and make us look like fools since that's how all our recent trades seem to go.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I thought we could refuse to honor the NMC after a trade. I believe we did that during the Subban trade but could be mistaken.

I bet if we do that trade Turris is going to team back up with Fiala and make us look like fools since that's how all our recent trades seem to go.

I'd need to look it up to be sure but Subban's NTC had not kicked in yet, thus we had the ability to honor it or not. Same thing with Richards and Carter both being traded from the Flyers. I think once it kicks in it has to be honored.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

I thought we could refuse to honor the NMC after a trade. I believe we did that during the Subban trade but could be mistaken.

I bet if we do that trade Turris is going to team back up with Fiala and make us look like fools since that's how all our recent trades seem to go.

Decent chance of it happening anyway. He spent one season nursing multiple injuries (and still playing, contrary to his "soft" label) and last season doghoused by Lavy. He goes somewhere that will give him a defined middle 6 role and PP time and not jerk him around, he'll bounce back.

 

[GoldOnGold]

I thought we could refuse to honor the NMC after a trade. I believe we did that during the Subban trade but could be mistaken.

I bet if we do that trade Turris is going to team back up with Fiala and make us look like fools since that's how all our recent trades seem to go.

They removed the ability to not honor NMCs and NTCs in the most recent CBA agreement.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

Then we are back to the buyout situation but instead of 2 mil 8 years it become 2 mil 6 years

Considering the overall mess this whole team was this past season, it feels unnecessary to saddle ourselves with the dead cap space unless we need it to add a big contract and before the expansion draft. Turris' value probably doesn't go much lower than it does currently, so we know we have the retention or buyout options (with one less year) if things don't improve. At the very least holding on to Turris a bit longer isn't forcing us to expose a more valuable player.

 

[BigFatCat999]

Considering the overall mess this whole team was this past season, it feels unnecessary to saddle ourselves with the dead cap space unless we need it to add a big contract and before the expansion draft. Turris' value probably doesn't go much lower than it does currently, so we know we have the retention or buyout options (with one less year) if things don't improve. At the very least holding on to Turris a bit longer isn't forcing us to expose a more valuable player.

To be honest. I'd rather go with a youth movement, pump and dump Turris at the x-draft, and sacrifice a 1st for Turris' ejection. Tomassino and Tolvanen might both be ready, JUST as two spots open up. I am suggesting patience and see if an opportunity pops up. We know MN and DET want a 2C. Who else is out there?

 

[adsfan]

I brought up dumping Turris in another thread, but people thought it would cost too much. Nashville would probably be better off hanging on to him for another season or two. Expansion draft sounds good if Seattle would take him.

BFC: I don't get the part about sacrificing a #1. Do you mean that the Preds would have to give up a #1 pick to get rid of Turris?

I would never trade Turris to the Wild.

Detroit I could live with since they are not in the Preds division anymore.

 

[Armourboy]

No way in heck I'd give up a #1 to move Turris. Our farm system isn't deep enough to be moving #1's any time soon.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

To be honest. I'd rather go with a youth movement, pump and dump Turris at the x-draft, and sacrifice a 1st for Turris' ejection. Tomassino and Tolvanen might both be ready, JUST as two spots open up. I am suggesting patience and see if an opportunity pops up. We know MN and DET want a 2C. Who else is out there?

We can't be sacrificing 1st rounders if we are going with a youth movement.

I'm honestly not that opposed to keepint Turris and instead trading Johansen.

You free up more money. You will get more value back. You will probably suck more (higher picks) and you could build up Turris' value a bit to make sure he is taken in the expansion draft.

I know, crazy idea, but we gotta start thinking outside the box I fear.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I don't really think moving Johansen is particularly crazy and was a pretty mainstream opinion here when the season paused. The JOFA performing well in the Coyotes series kind of gave us a reminder of what Johansen playing well looks like and seemed to move the target off his back a little.

Personally, I'd rather see more of a youth movement retool rather than a rebuild which I think moving Johansen would be more of the latter. I would still definitely listen on any potential trades for him or really anyone on the roster.

 

[Byrddog]

You know as much as this team needs a shake up and to rebuild as we look at the roster and the Cap situation one thing we have overlooked. Poile and his stubbornness to rebuild. Here is one option that he may have in his squirrely head. He has roughly 9 mil in cap right now. He has one forward line that is productive. He has two centers for that second line that need talent around them to be productive neither of which do well on the wing. Here is one option that we have not considered. Trade Josi that pushes his spending ability to 18 mil Fabbro steps up. He can then go after Taylor Hall who would fit with either of the 2C's Hall would cost about 4 mil leaving him 14 he re signs Smith for the 3rd line at 3 mil he is down to 11 mil. He uses one of the kids or both rotating on the 2nd line until one is the clear winner signs a proven NHL goalie say Lehner to a 5 x 4 rides Rinne and Lehner unless Pekka retires then Ingram is ready to come up the next year. he now has 6 mil to get a top 4 guy and he goes to the draft with his usual defense first mentality back reloads D talent there in the first two rounds then picks forwards.

I have wanted a rebuild for a while but im not sure Poile will do it. This just smells like something he will do.