Post-Game Talk: Shotdown: Detroit 5 - Jets 1

[Holden Caulfield]

Makes sense and Beyak mentioned it as well on the broadcast. Which sort of leads me to the question, if PoMo knows what Beyak knows (or even if he doesn't, he would have an idea pretty soon in the 1st), that the Wings are going to bring an aggressive fore-check and try to take away the boards, why didn't the Jets change the breakout strategy? (or did they and I missed it?)

I don't have the X's and O's knowledge of many here, but wouldn't there have been an alternative? Maybe some shorter passes to the centre (or wing) in the middle of the ice if they are taking away the boards? Beyak kept mentioning how the Wings were taking away the boards and it seems like we kept trying to go there anyway.

I'm definitely of the camp of already moving on from this game, but this is more from a strategy perspective type question.

I only caught bits and pieces of game last night, but I'll try to answer.

What is sounds like your describring is a very standard 1-2-2 forecheck. F1 attacks the defenseman hard with an angle to force him up the strong side to the boards. The idea is to take away the puck with F2 who has locked down the defensemen's only option at the halfwall. F3 is supporting in the high slot and if done right will be eliminating center option if F1 and/or F2 have not managed to create a turnover.

The basic counter to a 1-2-2 attack is to change sides. Whether that be with d to d pass behind the net or a reverse to quickly flip the ice on the attacking team. This should allow the breakout to materialize. Another strategy that is pretty effective is the high flip out to the neutral zone and letting the weak side winger skate under it. Establishing that early in particular can back off the defense allowing more room to beat forecheck with simply quick passing. One strategy that can be effective is simply outskating it. By this I mean if the defenseman can outskate F1 (or if F1 angles poorly) the can start to skate with it. This leaves F2 and F3 in an impossible situation where they have to break off their positioning to attack the puck carrier leaving their man for an open pass or allow the defenseman to simply skate it out.

Just of note, pretty much every NHL team uses a 1-2-2 or some version of it (the Jets included). It's fairly standard play. Teams know how to counter it. What Beyak was likely highlighting that the Wings were doing a real good job at staying disciplined on the wall (F2). F2 is a critical player because all players at every level have trouble staying disciplined on that wall. All of them want to jump down into the play, which allows the opposing team an easy breakout.

 

[Garbox]

only way roslovic shld come up is if hes playing center to perrault and armia. never any where on the 4th thats not how u groom talent.
not sure roslovic can handle 3c defensive duties atm
has armia ever played center in his career ?

No he hasn't. There was a discussion about it at some point of his Liiga career in Finnish board. Someone there said that he has played center and I was in with the discussion. But my teammate (floorball) was a friend of Joel and he had seen that discussion. Told me that Armia has never played center. Don't know if he could though, especially now that he's a two way monster.

In a way it does. For a closed minded static coach it does make a lot of sense. But it is still crazy that with all that material TOI is not more evenly spread, when the 1st line is doing absolutely nothing. If Maurice thinks that it just has to be the 1st line to carry this team, why not move Perreault up to that line when we desperately need the goals?

But he did. There were less than 10 minutes left and 3 or 4 goals behind at that point though. But he did. Connor played with Hendricks and Armia. And they played surprisingly lot considering the "chase".

...
And special thanks to whoever called this Finns against Swedes match. You sure called it.

They must be seriously fixated on Swedes in Detroid . For sure they had Lidström and prime Zetterberg (and I think there were more Swedes back then too), so I guess it's understandable. And of course it was our beloved neighbours that had to take this game from us

 

[Ducky10]

Other than Chiarot, all the Jets defensemen are more than capable of beating F1 in the 1-2-2 forecheck by outskating him, particularly if the pursuit angle is outside in. If they do happen to face an inside out angle (which funnels them into the trap), the opposite side D needs to be in position for a reversal, or the first forward coming down low to accomplish much the same but usually on the same side of the ice. Ultimately it's to force the opposing F2 or F3 to switch or back off, opening up either a passing option or a skating lane.

This is where the Jets miss Enstrom, he is very good at beating the F1 on a 1-2-2, as well as effectively reversing the puck with deception. But yeah......he's small .

The Jets just weren't making good reads and weren't in good places, they were sloppy.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Makes sense and Beyak mentioned it as well on the broadcast. Which sort of leads me to the question, if PoMo knows what Beyak knows (or even if he doesn't, he would have an idea pretty soon in the 1st), that the Wings are going to bring an aggressive fore-check and try to take away the boards, why didn't the Jets change the breakout strategy? (or did they and I missed it?)

I don't have the X's and O's knowledge of many here, but wouldn't there have been an alternative? Maybe some shorter passes to the centre (or wing) in the middle of the ice if they are taking away the boards? Beyak kept mentioning how the Wings were taking away the boards and it seems like we kept trying to go there anyway.

I'm definitely of the camp of already moving on from this game, but this is more from a strategy perspective type question.

I've put the loss behind me, we aren't going to win them all.

BUT, I would say an end to the slow lackadaisical skate to retrieve a puck dumped into our end would be a very good start.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Other than Chiarot, all the Jets defensemen are more than capable of beating F1 on the forecheck by outskating him, particularly if the pursuit angle is outside in. If they do happen to face an inside out angle (which funnels them into the trap), the opposite side D needs to be in position for a reversal, or the first forward coming down low to accomplish much the same but usually on the same side of the ice. Ultimately it's to force the opposing F2 or F3 to switch or back off, opening up either a passing option or a skating lane.

This is where the Jets miss Enstrom, he is very good at beating the F1 on a 1-2-2, as well as effectively reversing the puck with deception. But yeah......he's small .

The Jets just weren't making good reads and weren't in good places, they were sloppy.

Agreed. This is why Chiarot ends up with so many icings, he struggles mightily in escapability and puck movement.

This is also why I think Tanev is vastly overrated. Tanev really struggles in two aspects that make him not an NHL level player, IMO. He struggles on the breakout with puck movement (wingers need ability to quickly give and go on strong side of wall) and as I highlighted during the GDT thread, he is brutal on his angles attacking on the forecheck (his speed makes him often F1 and he attacks directly allowing easy breakouts). Combine that with his lack of talent, the speed is not enough. I know he has played better, but Jets can be better without him.

 

[Huffer]

I only caught bits and pieces of game last night, but I'll try to answer.

What is sounds like your describring is a very standard 1-2-2 forecheck. F1 attacks the defenseman hard with an angle to force him up the strong side to the boards. The idea is to take away the puck with F2 who has locked down the defensemen's only option at the halfwall. F3 is supporting in the high slot and if done right will be eliminating center option if F1 and/or F2 have not managed to create a turnover.

The basic counter to a 1-2-2 attack is to change sides. Whether that be with d to d pass behind the net or a reverse to quickly flip the ice on the attacking team. This should allow the breakout to materialize. Another strategy that is pretty effective is the high flip out to the neutral zone and letting the weak side winger skate under it. Establishing that early in particular can back off the defense allowing more room to beat forecheck with simply quick passing. One strategy that can be effective is simply outskating it. By this I mean if the defenseman can outskate F1 (or if F1 angles poorly) the can start to skate with it. This leaves F2 and F3 in an impossible situation where they have to break off their positioning to attack the puck carrier leaving their man for an open pass or allow the defenseman to simply skate it out.

Just of note, pretty much every NHL team uses a 1-2-2 or some version of it (the Jets included). It's fairly standard play. Teams know how to counter it. What Beyak was likely highlighting that the Wings were doing a real good job at staying disciplined on the wall (F2). F2 is a critical player because all players at every level have trouble staying disciplined on that wall. All of them want to jump down into the play, which allows the opposing team an easy breakout.

Good Summary Holden. I guess what was frustrating was that it didn't seem "to me anyway" that the Jets were doing much to counter. Looked like a lot of pounding your head into a wall.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

Late to the dance here as I had late night sports myself last night.
I didn't even read this thread at all yet, so I'm flying blind here.

Posting the next day makes it easier to not be all doom and gloom.

I'll maintain the mantra that as long as they play well in Florida and get points then I'm not too worried about the results of this game.

Our vets really let us down this game.
Myers double delay of game penalties for 5 on 3 situations of course.
Wheeler's bumble for the break away give away.
I live my man MP but he was largely responsible for the pressure that led to the 3rd goal.
The puck was heading into our end.
Perreault was the nearest by far but he turned away to let the defenseman retrieve it. Unfortunately that delay allowed the Wings to get on us and force the turn. Not that long later their player is laying on Hellebuyck and we are down 3-1.
Bad call aside had MP just gotten the puck himself it's very unlikely that goal ever happens.

I think we had enough momentum and pressure to take that game back but the above mistakes meant it wasn't our day.

I liked that Connor in his limited minutes on the 4th didn't look invisible.

Give Hellebuyck a rest.
Play Comrie... the boys will go to the wall for the rookie!!!

 

[10Ducky10]

That's a heck of a lineup if you figure that Roslovic can handle first line center.

Lines aren't necessarily in order.

 

[LowLefty]

I'm just saying it is coaches job to be prepared for any specific game. If you win means everything went according to the plan. Having same plan for every game doesn't make you a good coach. Approaching every opponent considering other factors makes you a better coach, ability to react, change the plan, shake things up and control your roster makes you an excellent coach. PoMo didn't react, didn't try to shake things up or motivate his players, he doesn't really control the VETS on this team that makes him an average coach at best. Why should I give him credit? If he at least tried something I would have different opinion on him

What does coaching have to do with players playing like garbage - Because he didn't prepare them but did for the games they won?
Team has played very well for most games - they didn't for this one - that happens.

Why would you assume he has the same plan for every game? Because they lost?
What should he have done with the dozen players that were off? Make them better on the spot? Rip into them on the bench after the season they have had up to this point?
Why is he average - are you basing that on this seasons record? One game? Or are you pulling out last season for another review?
No one gets a pass on this game but to call out the coach because the team played poorly and lost the game, is a joke.

 

[204hockey]

Source ?

Chaturbate

 

[Eyeseeing]

Chaturbate

Website
Gummy bears

 

[204hockey]

No he hasn't. There was a discussion about it at some point of his Liiga career in Finnish board. Someone there said that he has played center and I was in with the discussion. But my teammate (floorball) was a friend of Joel and he had seen that discussion. Told me that Armia has never played center. Don't know if he could though, especially now that he's a two way monster.



But he did. There were less than 10 minutes left and 3 or 4 goals behind at that point though. But he did. Connor played with Hendricks and Armia. And they played surprisingly lot considering the "chase".



They must be seriously fixated on Swedes in Detroid . For sure they had Lidström and prime Zetterberg (and I think there were more Swedes back then too), so I guess it's understandable. And of course it was our beloved neighbours that had to take this game from us

They shld try him next year imagine
Laine armia vesalainen

 

[KingBogo]

What does coaching have to do with players playing like garbage - Because he didn't prepare them but did for the games they won?
Team has played very well for most games - they didn't for this one - that happens.

Why would you assume he has the same plan for every game? Because they lost?
What should he have done with the dozen players that were off? Make them better on the spot? Rip into them on the bench after the season they have had up to this point?
Why is he average - are you basing that on this seasons record? One game? Or are you pulling out last season for another review?
No one gets a pass on this game but to call out the coach because the team played poorly and lost the game, is a joke.

Agreed. Every single team has bad games throughout the season. A single game is such a small sample size representing that anything is possible in the short term. Which ever team wins the cup, you could go back and point to 5-10 games throughout the season where they were terrible. And most likely 1-2 games where they stunk out the joint during their playoff run. It is being able to avoid prolonged downturns that is important. I expect the Jets to bounce back strong tomorrow.

 

[KingBogo]

Well, there's the loss you've been waiting for. Now it's time to fix the top 2 lines, PoMo.

I wasn't waiting for a loss, and I doubt the lines get switched up. Mo gushes about Wheeler and Scheifele together, and I'm guessing Laine isn't getting moved to LW. To make the 1st line as effective as possible I'd like to see MP on it, but he is probably kept on the 4th to spread out the offense.

 

[ocdaddy]

Because he didn't score any until now?

Im saying its crazy to think Maurice did NOT have him on the PP1 unit in the beginning of the season.

 

[KingBogo]

So the Jets' play last night can be excused due to lack of practice time? This team is just far too accepting of sub-par efforts. They don't yet have the cred in my eyes to just brush these off with an oh well, on to the next game. It's only going to get harder from here as we get into serious battling for position. If this team can't put in the work needed every night, our climb to the top will switch to...

The Jets have responded well to bad games all season and have avoided losing streaks. Which suggests they haven't been accepting of sub par efforts. And I'm curious why you believe they have brushed it off with an "oh well on to the next game", without even seeing how they respond in the next game?

 

[FFHockey]

No, the Jets were not good last night outside of Kulikov and the Lowry line, it was more of a team effort in this loss. Crap happens, can't win them all, and they never will. (even though I want them to!)

On to the next game; the boys will be fine, they seem to respond well to garbage games...here's hoping for another great response tomorrow!

Will be watching intently tomorrow, as will be missing the Saturday showdown to head west to take in a Wheaties game. Hopefully the Jets and Lightning still slugging it out atop the league when they show up here end of January.

Go Jets Go!

 

[Eyeseeing]

No, the Jets were not good last night outside of Kulikov and the Lowry line, it was more of a team effort in this loss. Crap happens, can't win them all, and they never will. (even though I want them to!)

On to the next game; the boys will be fine, they seem to respond well to garbage games...here's hoping for another great response tomorrow!

Will be watching intently tomorrow, as will be missing the Saturday showdown to head west to take in a Wheaties game. Hopefully the Jets and Lightning still slugging it out atop the league when they show up here end of January.

Go Jets Go!

I agree with your post.
I have NEVER liked the slow process as we squandered at least 2 seasons however the current regime is on notice.
I am enjoying this season a lot

 

[nobody important]

I only caught bits and pieces of game last night, but I'll try to answer.

What is sounds like your describring is a very standard 1-2-2 forecheck. F1 attacks the defenseman hard with an angle to force him up the strong side to the boards. The idea is to take away the puck with F2 who has locked down the defensemen's only option at the halfwall. F3 is supporting in the high slot and if done right will be eliminating center option if F1 and/or F2 have not managed to create a turnover.

The basic counter to a 1-2-2 attack is to change sides. Whether that be with d to d pass behind the net or a reverse to quickly flip the ice on the attacking team. This should allow the breakout to materialize. Another strategy that is pretty effective is the high flip out to the neutral zone and letting the weak side winger skate under it. Establishing that early in particular can back off the defense allowing more room to beat forecheck with simply quick passing. One strategy that can be effective is simply outskating it. By this I mean if the defenseman can outskate F1 (or if F1 angles poorly) the can start to skate with it. This leaves F2 and F3 in an impossible situation where they have to break off their positioning to attack the puck carrier leaving their man for an open pass or allow the defenseman to simply skate it out.

Just of note, pretty much every NHL team uses a 1-2-2 or some version of it (the Jets included). It's fairly standard play. Teams know how to counter it. What Beyak was likely highlighting that the Wings were doing a real good job at staying disciplined on the wall (F2). F2 is a critical player because all players at every level have trouble staying disciplined on that wall. All of them want to jump down into the play, which allows the opposing team an easy breakout.

Hockey's a simple game.

Get the puck out of your end.

Hit anybody trying to bring it back in.

Give Laine the puck to score.

Any questions?

 

[Male75FromFinland]

Wings got two goal buffer first period and build win from that. Later in third when Jets tried to get back Wings where able to add that buffer with Booth goal.