I've seen that meme here and there around Twitter (one was about the Philly ENG situation and Mariko's translation was "The Anjin is upset about hockey") but it's kind of spot on. Her translations were definitely not precise going either way.
Online Series: Shogun (D+ and FX Feb 2024)
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I've seen that meme here and there around Twitter (one was about the Philly ENG situation and Mariko's translation was "The Anjin is upset about hockey") but it's kind of spot on. Her translations were definitely not precise going either way.
Rodgerwilco
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Been staying out of the thread to avoid spoilers, since I'm holding off on episode 9 until 10 comes out so I can have a double feature.
Really excited to see what Toranaga has up his sleeve.
Really excited to see what Toranaga has up his sleeve.
The Crypto Guy
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Gave it a chance, 2 eps in and I'm enjoying it. Though the names of the characters is still a bit confusing but I guess that gets easier over time.
It does. I found the names and relations of the characters to be a lot to keep track of in the first few episodes, too, but eventually realized that there's only a handful of principle characters that everyone talks about and I didn't really need to remember the rest. Even after 9 episodes, I can't tell you what some of the side characters' names are. For example, it beats me what the names of the priest and Ishido's wife are, but it's usually pretty clear when they're being talked about.
The Crypto Guy
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I googled a Shogun family tree with pics and names of the characters. Helped a lot and I don't think this has any Game of Thrones level family connection secrets so there's no danger of spoilers.
John Price
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that ending was POG
literally made my jaw drop as I saw it a few seconds ago. What a damn show.
Was talking with this earlier today with the boys and we thought they might have enough material for a season 2. Apparently it is several books so they can continue from there!
literally made my jaw drop as I saw it a few seconds ago. What a damn show.
Was talking with this earlier today with the boys and we thought they might have enough material for a season 2. Apparently it is several books so they can continue from there!
Who everyone is can be confusing but it makes sense over the time once you see them over and over
Not sure how everyone else will feel about the finale, but I thought it was beautifully done for the most part.
I think people will be upset that they didn't have some grandiose finale battle, just an implied one but I thought it worked better that way. I just felt like Toranaga's explanation of what was to come felt a little...it just felt like the writers couldn't hide the subtext that they didn't have the money to tell this ending the way they wanted and have some massive depiction of the big battle. It's not the worst thing in the world but one of my biggest pet peeves is when I can feel the echoes of a writer's room meeting come through in the script, whether it's thinly veiled emotional manipulation of the audience or a workaround budget restrictions like this. It's my only real complaint with the finale though. Most of the open threads were tied up really nicely other than Ochiba (her heel turn is not completely out of left field but it did feel sudden), Was not expecting Cosmo Jarvis to have his own emmy consideration episode but here we are. Think Sawai and Sanada have a legit shot and Jarvis might just be a nominee, but he was outstanding in just about every scene.
EDIT: Oh and I was completely wrong about the cannons lol.
EDIT: Oh and I was completely wrong about the cannons lol.
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Jovavic
Gaslight Object Project
I think the Heir is actually Toranaga's son so Ochiba holding back his forces makes sense and not out of left field. The few times the Heir and Toranaga had a scene together you can feel the tenderness a parent has for their child. Even in the last episode, as he's holding his newborn son, he mentions he has others.
Sad People
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Fantastic ending and thought it was a beautiful ending it tbh.
Only a couple things im confused about but
What was Toranaga testing Blackthorne at the end when he decided to burn his ship? What did he want to find it? Also If Blackthorne dropped Marikos cross necklace into the water how did he have it during the flashback scenes?
Only a couple things im confused about but
What was Toranaga testing Blackthorne at the end when he decided to burn his ship? What did he want to find it? Also If Blackthorne dropped Marikos cross necklace into the water how did he have it during the flashback scenes?
Idk I was a little underwhelmed with the last few episodes. The story is still good but I was hoping for all this lead up to lead up to somethin bigger. Like I get that Toranaga wins but I would've liked to see the battle and not just be told about it. I think Ishido realizing nobody is showing to support him and he's been played would've been a huge TV moment. Instead we just got told about it which was pretty disappointing to me. I get there may have been budget restrictions though.
I was one of the biggest supporters in this thread about how good the show's dialogue and plot was and I stand by that. But it really needed some action and more "payoff" at some point. If we get some insane samurai fights with even more emotion from the characters they've made us so invested in, I think this show would've been an all time great. Instead it's just very good for me. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in that after its start. But nonetheless still a very good show I'm obviously glad to have watched. They did a fantastic job with this one overall and I'm happy to have watched and gotten to discuss it with the posters here.
I was one of the biggest supporters in this thread about how good the show's dialogue and plot was and I stand by that. But it really needed some action and more "payoff" at some point. If we get some insane samurai fights with even more emotion from the characters they've made us so invested in, I think this show would've been an all time great. Instead it's just very good for me. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed in that after its start. But nonetheless still a very good show I'm obviously glad to have watched. They did a fantastic job with this one overall and I'm happy to have watched and gotten to discuss it with the posters here.
That's the one thing, on reflection I probably disliked about the episode.
I read it as Toranaga testing Blackthorne's loyalty, allegiance, and moral fiber. Like I get that Toranaga is distrusting of the Church and the Portuguese and he needed to see that Blackthorne is a foreigner who really could be trusted, and I get that Toranaga is not above expending human life to get what he wants, but there were easier ways to test the strength of Blackthorne's character that didn't have to involve killing innocents in the name of a ruse.
I'm not sure if that's straight from the book, but it feels like a misstep. I'm fine with Toranaga as an anti-hero, but being that wasteful and callous with the lives of his own loyal subjects is a step too far imo.
I'm not sure if that's straight from the book, but it feels like a misstep. I'm fine with Toranaga as an anti-hero, but being that wasteful and callous with the lives of his own loyal subjects is a step too far imo.
Not to detract from how you individually feel about the ending, just for me I kind of understood that the final battle was never really the point. I'm sure if they had more money they could have shown more like you said, but the most powerful moments have always been the losses of life of those loyal to Toranaga who give their lives to advance his goals and how that ripples and affects everyone, especially Toranaga. The finale is mournful almost from start to finish following Mariko's death. So, to me, the point of it all wasn't the final fight or the result, but the human cost it took Toranaga to get there with all the pain it caused so many.
I obviously would've loved to have seen more of the final battle too but if that's cut for the expense of the more emotional human moments, I was okay with it. I thought the fake out flash forwards with Blackthorne on his deathbed, clutching Mariko's rosary only to see that it was some fantasy he let go of, letting himself move on after Mariko's death (and accept his destiny in Japan) and having that punctuated by Fuji telling him that his should be the last hands to hold her. I know it's recency bias but I haven't seen such heartfelt and touching storytelling like that on TV in a long time. If I had to choose between that kind of storytelling and some big budget epic battle (that very easily could've been unremarkable even if we did get more of it), I'd happily take the former (though I would've been happier with both).
I obviously would've loved to have seen more of the final battle too but if that's cut for the expense of the more emotional human moments, I was okay with it. I thought the fake out flash forwards with Blackthorne on his deathbed, clutching Mariko's rosary only to see that it was some fantasy he let go of, letting himself move on after Mariko's death (and accept his destiny in Japan) and having that punctuated by Fuji telling him that his should be the last hands to hold her. I know it's recency bias but I haven't seen such heartfelt and touching storytelling like that on TV in a long time. If I had to choose between that kind of storytelling and some big budget epic battle (that very easily could've been unremarkable even if we did get more of it), I'd happily take the former (though I would've been happier with both).
Bounces R Way
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Just wasn't much of a resolution was it.
Yabushige I found really relatable for some reason. My favorite character in this series. Blackthorne both changing and not changing in his arc was well done, that kind of complexity is hard to pull off. I don't know if they do another season(I hope they do) but another season of narrative content for me that didn't quite stick the landing. Still solid in many aspects so I would recommend.
Yabushige I found really relatable for some reason. My favorite character in this series. Blackthorne both changing and not changing in his arc was well done, that kind of complexity is hard to pull off. I don't know if they do another season(I hope they do) but another season of narrative content for me that didn't quite stick the landing. Still solid in many aspects so I would recommend.
That wasn't the finale that I expected, either.
The whole season felt like it was building to a big conclusion... if not a battle, then at least a confrontation between Toranaga and Ishido. I understand if they didn't have the budget to do much, but the conflict could've still been resolved without breaking the bank by, for example, having Toranaga turn the council against Ishido in person or defeat him in a one-on-one duel. Either would've been more entertaining than wrapping everything up via exposition and leaving it to our imagination.
That said, it was a poignant finale and still better than just about any other episode of any other recent show. I still enjoyed it and appreciate it. It just wasn't very satisfying for a finale, especially for a mini-series with no plans for continuation.
That said, it was a poignant finale and still better than just about any other episode of any other recent show. I still enjoyed it and appreciate it. It just wasn't very satisfying for a finale, especially for a mini-series with no plans for continuation.
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I haven't read the book, but I did listen to a recap podcast and apparently the novel ends pretty much the same way. The exception is that instead of telling his plan to Yabushige, his plan is revealed in an inner monologue.
John Price
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Honestly, the way the series ended there is going to be another season
They cannot end a 10 episode miniseries like that, and the hype and fanfare is just too much
Too many unanswered questions they could easily flesh out into a season. Such as
They cannot end a 10 episode miniseries like that, and the hype and fanfare is just too much
Too many unanswered questions they could easily flesh out into a season. Such as
How did Blackthorn get home, how did he get those swords
The thing is Kings or Shoguns etc. have always been like this for centuries. They care not who gets hurt or killed if it further their goals.
I get that. It's more realistic but felt contradictory to him saying his plan was more peaceful.
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Seattle King
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They will have to make shit up if there is to be any more content from this show. Clavell's book ended here and there was no "sequel" in the usual sense. Clavell's Asian Saga isnt like Game of Thrones where its a series of direct linear stories. The other books are set in China and other places and in other time periods and more importantly, none of the characters from Shogun are in any of the other books. There could be an appetite for those other books to be made into shows based on the success of this one, but it wouldnt be a continuation of the current series.
Perhaps they will just say f*ck it lets make some yen here and cash in on the popularity by creating new storylines based on the true events of the early years of the Tokugawa Shogunate, there were plenty and you could write something good. In reality, the Taiko's son grew up eventually and some shit goes down.
There was a fair amount of diversion from the book towards the second half of the season so its possible they are not uncomfortable with some artistic license.
Perhaps they will just say f*ck it lets make some yen here and cash in on the popularity by creating new storylines based on the true events of the early years of the Tokugawa Shogunate, there were plenty and you could write something good. In reality, the Taiko's son grew up eventually and some shit goes down.
There was a fair amount of diversion from the book towards the second half of the season so its possible they are not uncomfortable with some artistic license.
I don't think there will be a new season cause it seems they have basically used the source material. Though I guess that doesn't completely rule it out, like The Leftovers
As for your unanswered question:
Do we know that Blackthorn actually went back home? I saw those scenes more of a dream rather than the future. I mean the episode was called 'A Dream of a Dream' And even if it was the future, you don't think he'd be able to go back home after building Toranaga a naval unit and win the war? And he has had swords all along.
Apparently, though lack of budget was one reason for the ending, the main one is that the creators wanted to stay true to the novel's narrative style. I wondered if they downplayed the resolution because the novel did, and it sounds like that's the case.
screenrant.com
That might also throw more cold water on the idea of a continuation, because if the writers chose not to show it because the novel didn't, then it doesn't seem like they'd be interested in showing it in a second season, either.
Why Shogun Episode 10 Ends Without Showing The Actual War Explained By Creators
Shogun episode 10 was the season finale.
screenrant.com
IF I recall the creators have said right from the start it would be a not so mini series. I guess enough money can get anything to change but I wonder if they would be able to keep the same tone etc. without any existing source material.Apparently, though lack of budget was one reason for the ending, the main one is that the writers wanted to stay true to the novel's narrative style. I wondered if they downplayed the final confrontation because the novel did, and it sounds like that's the case.
That might also throw more cold water on the idea of a continuation, because if the writers chose not to show it because the novel didn't, then it doesn't seem like they'd be interested in showing it in a second season, either.Why Shogun Episode 10 Ends Without Showing The Actual War Explained By Creators
Shogun episode 10 was the season finale.
With Shogun ending, if anyone is looking for another historical series to watch, I was reading today that Netflix just added all four seasons of Black Sails, the pirate drama which aired on Starz from 2014 to 2017. I was reminded of it at several points while watching Shogun, since both are set several hundred years ago, involve pirating and have an emphasis on realism. The main difference is that Shogun is an intimate character drama and Black Sails is more action/adventure like Treasure Island or Pirates of the Caribbean. So, it's different, but I really enjoyed it and recommend it, especially if you were hoping for more action in Shogun.
www.inverse.com
Netflix Just Quietly Added the Most Underrated Historical Epic of the Past Decade
Now that 'Shogun' is over, scratch your historical epic itch with 'Black Sails,' a wildly underrated drama that flew under the radar, but is now getting a second life on Netflix.
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