Sheldon Keefe Discussion

[TheGoldenJet]

Keefe is entering his 5th year coaching the Marlies at the AHL level.

All AHL coaches have to balance team success with prospect development. How do you see Keefe in this regard?

I can’t give him credit for Sandin, because Sandin already looked incredibly composed (and earned high praise from Babcock) in the 2018 preseason, before Keefe got his hands on him.

Liljegren also looked terrific right after his draft before Keefe got his hands on him, when he outscored both Dahlin and Brannstrom (and a host of other prospects) at the 2017 summer showcase. This came on the heels of a strong playoffs in the Swedish U20. Since then, Keefe has managed to improve his defence, seemingly at the cost of giving him less offensive opportunities.

Can Keefe develop young talent like Liljegren? Is he willing to give Liljegren a shot on the first powerplay unit to grow his confidence and round out his game?

Will Keefe continue to find some team success with a strong Marlies roster? Let’s hear your thoughts.

Click to read more...

 

[kb]

Yes

 

[Mickey Marner]

Our player development has been outstanding. Hyman, Kapanen, Nylander, Brown, Dermott, Johnsson, Moore, Sandin, Liljegren, Gauthier etc. All spent at least a season with Keefe & the Marlies before graduating to the Leafs. That's a solid group, well above average. We used to hope Percy and Finn would turn out to be NHL'ers, now we graduate multiple prospects yearly. It's night & day.

 

[stickty111]

Keefe is entering his 5th year coaching the Marlies at the AHL level.

All AHL coaches have to balance team success with prospect development. How do you see Keefe in this regard?

I can’t give him credit for Sandin, because Sandin already looked incredibly composed (and earned high praise from Babcock) in the 2018 preseason, before Keefe got his hands on him.

Liljegren also looked terrific right after his draft before Keefe got his hands on him, when he outscored both Dahlin and Brannstrom (and a host of other prospects) at the 2017 summer showcase. This came on the heels of a strong playoffs in the Swedish U20. Since then, Keefe has managed to improve his defence, seemingly at the cost of giving him less offensive opportunities.

Can Keefe develop young talent like Liljegren? Is he willing to give Liljegren a shot on the first powerplay unit to grow his confidence and round out his game?

Will Keefe continue to find some team success with garong Marlies roster? Let’s hear your thoughts.

I don't agree Lilly looked good at the showcase. He got points but his game was exttemely erratic and sloppy. He has now become a very reliable defensive player, and took steps in his overall game that I was not expecting.
Keefe gets credit for that but I think Lilly as well. If you look at his build, he is a determined kid who wants to get better.
I think your not happy the way Lilly has been developed, and while I understand where your coming from, this season Lilly will likely be used to help his offense. I love Keefe but I will be the first one to criticize him if he puts Schmaltz and others over Lilly on the 1st PP.
To answer the rest of the questions. I think Keefe has done a solid job balancing out everything. He used youngsters like Hollowell, Duszak, and Lindgren in the playoffs.
Keefe has shown he can kids like Lilly. He sheltered him in his rookie season, and never scratched him even when he hit a wall in the 2nd half.
Last season, he gave him tough matchups and initially Lilly struggled, but Keefe never took it away from him, and Lilly became the teams's best defensive defenceman on the team. Keefe gets credit for that. His PP time got cut which was on purpose, but his even strength minutes stayed up. This is the season to develop his offensive game. Dermott was also developed by Keefe.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I don't see why 3 good preseason games means Keefe deserves zero credit for developing Sandin but ok. All in all I think he's done very well in balancing winning and development and seems to thrive at both

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Our player development has been outstanding. Hyman, Kapanen, Nylander, Brown, Dermott, Johnsson, Moore, Sandin, Liljegren, Gauthier etc. All spent at least a season with Keefe & the Marlies before graduating to the Leafs. That's a solid group, well above average. We used to hope Percy and Finn would turn out to be NHL'ers, now we graduate multiple prospects yearly. It's night & day.

This is the best answer. All you have to do is look at the Habs system and see the lack of NHL players they have developed over the years.

It's not all Keefe, the amount of money put into development has been huge in terms of doctors, specialized coaches (ex. Barb Underhill types), nutritionists, etc. have been just as valuable. Players have everything they need to be successful. They just need to use the resources available. But the job Keefe has done with the players on the ice has been outstanding.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Can Keefe develop young talent like Liljegren? Is he willing to give Liljegren a shot on the first powerplay unit to grow his confidence and round out his game?

If Keefe doesn't give Liljegren a shot on the first powerplay unit, are you willing to accept that it might be the right choice for his development despite your opinion?

 

[bentharbs]

Im also just waiting to see Sandin play this year in real NHL games before passing strong judgement. I think expectations are a bit too high on him right now.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

This is the best answer. All you have to do is look at the Habs system and see the lack of NHL players they have developed over the years.

It's not all Keefe, the amount of money put into development has been huge in terms of doctors, specialized coaches (ex. Barb Underhill types), nutritionists, etc. have been just as valuable. Players have everything they need to be successful. They just need to use the resources available. But the job Keefe has done with the players on the ice has been outstanding.

Agreed. You cant just give credit to the coach here. The Leafs system is as good as it gets. I'm also not taking anything away from Keefe because I think he's been a great coach. Can he develop players? It seems like he has already but that's not solely on him. All I know is the players that have come up from the Marlies dont look out of place.

 

[PromisedLand]

All the matters in the NHL is confidence to begin with. Confidence comes with wins. Wins come when you play good. You play good when systems allow you to play good.

Keefe has done a decent job IMO. Having a winning record has helped Marlies players confidence and that has shown in the pre-season.

Lily’s confidence might be a bit hurt as he has been pushed down the depth chart after acquisition of Barrie and Ceci.

Lily IMO is more skilled than Sandin: it’s just the confidence thing.

People only talk about plays that are exaggerated; Lily makes so many good subtle plays (like breakouts) it hardly gets noticed.

Lily will be fine and is going to be a top 4 D-man in the league for sure. Whether it is with the leafs or some other NHL team is to be seen

 

[Nineteen67]

Im also just waiting to see Sandin play this year in real NHL games before passing strong judgement. I think expectations are a bit too high on him right now.

Expectations schemexpectations........When he bowed up and pushed the winger out from in front of the net in the preseason game in Detroit he did something no Leafs defenceman did the entire season last year.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

He has done a fantastic job developing our players and that's why it's going to hurt when we lose him and I do think we lose him.

I think this team wins the cup this year and if that happens you came fire Babcock which leads to Keefe leaving for another opportunity which could REALLY hurt our player development.

 

[rumman]

He has done a fantastic job developing our players and that's why it's going to hurt when we lose him and I do think we lose him.

I think this team wins the cup this year and if that happens you came fire Babcock which leads to Keefe leaving for another opportunity which could REALLY hurt our player development.

I'm still not convinced Babcock is the right coach for this team, but thinking Keefe will successfully slide into the role is beyond optimistic imo. Plenty of examples of AHL coaches that couldn't make the jump and succeed with their first NHL team.

Having said that Keefe is the heir apparent, no doubt about that, at least he's the GM's guy, that's for sure.

 

[biotk]

Since then, Keefe has managed to improve his defence, seemingly at the cost of giving him less offensive opportunities.

Can Keefe develop young talent like Liljegren? Is he willing to give Liljegren a shot on the first powerplay unit to grow his confidence and round out his game?

I am not surprised that Liljegren's lackluster offensive output is being placed on Keefe, but it shouldn't be. Liljegren has been given every chance to succeed offensively. In his first year he was generally paired with Dermott. Dermott dominated offensively (although for the most part his most dominant stretch was when when Liljegren was off to the WJC). This season Liljegren was generally paired with Rosen. Rosen had a completely dominant season offensively. People claim that Liljegren was deployed in a defensive role. This is nonsense. LoVerde was the RHD who was deployed in the heaviest defensive situations both seasons.

Then of course there is the PP. Liljegren was gifted PP1 time during his first season (which the previous season had gone to Nielsen who put up much better numbers). At the start of his second season Liljegren again got PP1 time, but was replaced by better producers (Rosen and Sandin), however, he still got PP time in the second half when either Rosen or Sandin were out of the lineup - which was a lot.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I'm still not convinced Babcock is the right coach for this team, but thinking Keefe will successfully slide into the role is beyond optimistic imo. Plenty of examples of AHL coaches that couldn't make the jump and succeed with their first NHL team.

Having said that Keefe is the heir apparent, no doubt about that, at least he's the GM's guy, that's for sure.

But if I'm right the GM doesn't get his guy because if Babcock wins a cup he can't be fired

 

[ShaneFalco]

I don't see why 3 good preseason games means Keefe deserves zero credit for developing Sandin but ok. All in all I think he's done very well in balancing winning and development and seems to thrive at both

With a lineup that is constantly changing

 

[rumman]

But if I'm right the GM doesn't get his guy because if Babcock wins a cup he can't be fired

If Leafs won the cup Babcock would have been the right coach for this team, the rub comes if the Leafs have some playoff success but don't win the Cup does Babcock get axed then?

Keefe rightly won't wait forever to become a NHL coach, good possibility he becomes a NHL elsewhere.

Note: I'm neither pro or anti Babcock, I think he's a great coach, but might not be the guy for this team, guess we'll see if he approaches this season differently then last year?

 

[Mrs Garrett]

He should be our coach right now.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I don't agree Lilly looked good at the showcase. He got points but his game was exttemely erratic and sloppy. He has now become a very reliable defensive player, and took steps in his overall game that I was not expecting.
Keefe gets credit for that but I think Lilly as well. If you look at his build, he is a determined kid who wants to get better.
I think your not happy the way Lilly has been developed, and while I understand where your coming from, this season Lilly will likely be used to help his offense. I love Keefe but I will be the first one to criticize him if he puts Schmaltz and others over Lilly on the 1st PP.
To answer the rest of the questions. I think Keefe has done a solid job balancing out everything. He used youngsters like Hollowell, Duszak, and Lindgren in the playoffs.
Keefe has shown he can kids like Lilly. He sheltered him in his rookie season, and never scratched him even when he hit a wall in the 2nd half.
Last season, he gave him tough matchups and initially Lilly struggled, but Keefe never took it away from him, and Lilly became the teams's best defensive defenceman on the team. Keefe gets credit for that. His PP time got cut which was on purpose, but his even strength minutes stayed up. This is the season to develop his offensive game. Dermott was also developed by Keefe.

I think Babcock wants to get his hands on lilly this year and was the reason he is still up. Thats what i think so doesn’t mean its the case. I am watching the approach they use developing him further also.

I’m watching closely to see if lilly is having some fun because he really should be excited that he is with the Leafs. That should be enough to put a grin on your face right. He wasn’t very happy with his camp i understand but hopefully he stops putting all the pressure on himself and just enjoys this however long it lasts.

Babs likes him i think

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I am not surprised that Liljegren's lackluster offensive output is being placed on Keefe, but it shouldn't be. Liljegren has been given every chance to succeed offensively. In his first year he was generally paired with Dermott. Dermott dominated offensively (although for the most part his most dominant stretch was when when Liljegren was off to the WJC). This season Liljegren was generally paired with Rosen. Rosen had a completely dominant season offensively. People claim that Liljegren was deployed in a defensive role. This is nonsense. LoVerde was the RHD who was deployed in the heaviest defensive situations both seasons.

Then of course there is the PP. Liljegren was gifted PP1 time during his first season (which the previous season had gone to Nielsen who put up much better numbers). At the start of his second season Liljegren again got PP1 time, but was replaced by better producers (Rosen and Sandin), however, he still got PP time in the second half when either Rosen or Sandin were out of the lineup - which was a lot.

Going off memory doesn’t show numbers with regard to actual Ahl stats. Lilly hasn’t hit that balance point of the right amount of offense/ defense combined and at the right times. Watch the difference when it comes.

I believe it will come! I don’t know when, how could i its defense. I knew Rielly would come like he did last year. Some think it was a fluke in the media business. Last year is the Rielly we will see again.

Lilly can skate similarly to Rielly and I don’t disregard that. It’ll come

 

[WTFMAN99]

Babcock cannot afford a slow start.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Babcock cannot afford a slow start.

The leash isn't THAT short

 

[pulfordfan]

I think the leash is that short. I am a big babs supporter, but he could be out if he can't get at least a third round appearance in the playoffs this season, I still think he's a great coach but attitudes around here and what I hear and read about him in articles and sport shows, I'm starting to believe team has to do well or he's out. Sheldon with his relationship with Kyle would be the obvious replacement.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I think the leash is that short. I am a big babs supporter, but he could be out if he can't get at least a third round appearance in the playoffs this season, I still think he's a great coach but attitudes around here and what I hear and read about him in articles and sport shows, I'm starting to believe team has to do well or he's out. Sheldon with his relationship with Kyle would be the obvious replacement.

This.

Although if we start like 4-8 or something bad...the temperature turns up.

That being said, I don't think we start that badly. The new system in place during pre-season looks much better then option 1 being stretch pass. The forwards are also flying he zone less by the looks of it. Only noticed Johnsson and Nylander doing it still.

 

[Fogelhund]

Dubas tried to get rid of Babcock after last years playoff exit, but Shanahan vetoed?

Mike Babcock’s tenure nearly ended last spring. Another first-round exit will seal the deal | The Star

Babcock was nearly made to walk the plank after the Maple Leafs lost to the Bruins in the first round last spring. Sources say there was considerable disagreement in the Maple Leafs front office on the matter of the famously stubborn head coach’s continuing employment.

Still, no executive-coach alliance is eternal, and the message to Babcock was clear. Room for error is minimal. Even a slow start to the season could be enough to thrust Marlies coach Sheldon Keefe into the Maple Leafs gig.