Shea Weber's Cap recapture

[Curufinwe]

I think maybe Nashville got assurances from Weber he wouldn't retire. Even so I 'm shocked they took the risk, but you guys got the better, younger player.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

There has to be something that we don't know about to protect the Preds from a 12 to 24 million cap hit like that. The NHL will not let that happen, it will decimate the franchise for a decade at least.

 

[Byrddog]

There has to be something that we don't know about to protect the Preds from a 12 to 24 million cap hit like that. The NHL will not let that happen, it will decimate the franchise for a decade at least.

The rule was put into to the CBA because of the Weber offer sheet and a few others that signed the front loaded deals just before the lockout. There is nothing at this time can be done. But even if he was a Pred at retirement we still accrued the cap advantage in the early years and there is impact. Its the contract structure. Poile should have never matched the offer, but he did. Now We have to ride it out. It may cost us in the end still but we gfot Webers best years and now we are going to get the best years of PK.

 

[Natey]

Habs fan dropping in.

First, enjoy PK! He's enigmatic, but really freaking good.

I think I calculated the recapture penalties right - here's what I have;

If Shea Weber retires;

2016-2017 (31): 2,457,200 per for 10 years
2017-2018 (32): 2,730,222 per for 9 years
2018-2019 (33): 3,071,500 per for 8 years
2019-2020 (34): 3,510,286 per for 7 years
2020-2021 (35): 4,095,333 per for 6 years
2021-2022 (36): 4,914,400 per for 5 years
2022-2023 (37): 6,143,000 per for 4 years
2023-2024 (38): 8,190,667 per for 3 years
2024-2025 (39): 12,286,000 per for 2 years
2025-2026 (40): 24,572,000 per for 1 year

 

[nine_inch_fang]

The rule was put into to the CBA because of the Weber offer sheet and a few others that signed the front loaded deals just before the lockout. There is nothing at this time can be done. But even if he was a Pred at retirement we still accrued the cap advantage in the early years and there is impact. Its the contract structure. Poile should have never matched the offer, but he did. Now We have to ride it out. It may cost us in the end still but we gfot Webers best years and now we are going to get the best years of PK.

I know the whats and whys but there is no way the NHL will penalize 24 million in one year. It's not in the interests of the league or the spirit of the rule. There has to be a way to pay that down.

 

[Legionnaire11]

I know the whats and whys but there is no way the NHL will penalize 24 million in one year. It's not in the interests of the league or the spirit of the rule. There has to be a way to pay that down.

I don't think so either, after Bettman and the league have fought for the franchise to succeed in Nashville, they're going to let it go down in flames for matching an offer sheet that happened before the rule was even put in place? They'd find some sort of agreement.

 

[LCPreds]

Yeah they would definitely come up with something. Agree to put Weber on the books for however long and pay out his contract or something. A big franchise tried to bully us and we stood up to them. I just don't see the league lettings us get bent in 10 years. It could literally kill off a franchise.

With that said, if Weber has to retire due to injury, or arthritis, or any condition other than 'no longer desire to play the game', does that change anything?

 

[adsfan]

Yeah they would definitely come up with something. Agree to put Weber on the books for however long and pay out his contract or something. A big franchise tried to bully us and we stood up to them. I just don't see the league lettings us get bent in 10 years. It could literally kill off a franchise.

With that said, if Weber has to retire due to injury, or arthritis, or any condition other than 'no longer desire to play the game', does that change anything?

What will the Cap be in 2025 or 2026? 24M might not look so bad if the Cap is $170M.

This will get worked out. What happens if Shea is traded again?

Is Nashville off the hook and Montreal on it?

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

What will the Cap be in 2025 or 2026? 24M might not look so bad if the Cap is $170M.

This will get worked out. What happens if Shea is traded again?

Is Nashville off the hook and Montreal on it?

He could get traded 10 times, we would be on the hook for the amount of cap advantage derived (~$24M). Either Poile is assuming Weber does not retire early and goes the Pronger route, or has info we're not privy to, he's too prudent a GM to not have this well accounted for..

 

[nine_inch_fang]

You own whatever advantage you gained....meaning paid more than cap hit.


But I don't know that the recapture structure/time line is clear for a traded player. In my estimation the Preds should start paying the cap penalty hit now.

 

[Soundgarden]

What will the Cap be in 2025 or 2026? 24M might not look so bad if the Cap is $170M.

This will get worked out. What happens if Shea is traded again?

Is Nashville off the hook and Montreal on it?

That's what I was thinking, it's a long way away a lot could happen, let's just hope the cap goes up. I somehow doubt we'll be on the hook if he retires the last year, but knowing our crap luck I shouldn't say anything.

 

[Viqsi]

Habs fan dropping in.

First, enjoy PK! He's enigmatic, but really freaking good.

I think I calculated the recapture penalties right - here's what I have;

If Shea Weber retires;

2016-2017 (31): 2,457,200 per for 10 years
2017-2018 (32): 2,730,222 per for 9 years
2018-2019 (33): 3,071,500 per for 8 years
2019-2020 (34): 3,510,286 per for 7 years
2020-2021 (35): 4,095,333 per for 6 years
2021-2022 (36): 4,914,400 per for 5 years
2022-2023 (37): 6,143,000 per for 4 years
2023-2024 (38): 8,190,667 per for 3 years
2024-2025 (39): 12,286,000 per for 2 years
2025-2026 (40): 24,572,000 per for 1 year

Yep, you've got it right. My table had the total recapture amount off by a year. (In my defense, capfriendly and generalfanager were both down so I was having to work from a combination of memory and a spreadsheet I got from BFC that I misread. )


EDIT: The table is now corrected.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

You own whatever advantage you gained....meaning paid more than cap hit.


But I don't know that the recapture structure/time line is clear for a traded player. In my estimation the Preds should start paying the cap penalty hit now.

It all operates the same regardless. If Weber retires before his contract is complete, we will have a cap penalty applied at a rate which is the cap advantage we derived (~24M) divided by the number of years left on the contract.

I am increasingly convinced that a player is unlikely to forego any money, regardless of feeling jilted by a former team, so that $1M per season there at the end will probably keep Weber at least in LTIR status.

 

[Armourboy]

Or Poile could be banking that the issue goes away with the new CBA. But he has to know something or has been reassured by the NHL about something.

 

[Viqsi]

I guess it may be easiest for me to put it this way:

I have been vehemently against trading Weber (EDIT: or exposing him in the expansion draft) because of the cap recapture penalty issue combined with the blueline depth issue. Indeed, there was only one player I would consider as being possibly able to make up for those worries.

That one player is, in point of fact, the guy we just got for him.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

I truly can't imagine the NHL enforcing a 24M cap penalty.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Yeah I wouldn't worry about it. Cap could be $100 M by then first of all for all we know and also, the NHL goes back and changes rules all the time. They make compromises, remember that time they took away NJ's 1st round pick but then gave it back as a 30th pick? There's better business related examples but the league isn't like some harsh bureaucracy, it's a sports league that often makes **** up as it goes along and realizes that its past rule was flawed.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

I truly can't imagine the NHL enforcing a 24M cap penalty.

Especially since we aren't the ones who structured the contract that way.

 

[Top 6 Spaling]

Especially since we aren't the ones who structured the contract that way.

Not to mention I'm sure we would have HAPPILY had a 14M cap hit and paid him only 7.9M...

 

[PredsV82]

You own whatever advantage you gained....meaning paid more than cap hit.


But I don't know that the recapture structure/time line is clear for a traded player. In my estimation the Preds should start paying the cap penalty hit now.

I don't think they can pay a cap penalty that might or might not happen in advance, but an argument could be made that even with the cap advantage the Preds were still significantly below the cap for several of those seasons, thus the "advantage" was not realized.

If Im the Preds and Im faced with this I at least ask that the amount the Preds were under the total cap for each of those years be subtracted from the total recapture penalty... i.e. if we were 4 million below the cap during one of those years, we get 4 million credit

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Not to sound dismissive and arrogant, but I have a hard time being concerned about something 10 years away.

We just got PK. I'm pretty damn pumped.

 

[Soundgarden]

Not to sound dismissive and arrogant, but I have a hard time being concerned about something 10 years away.

We just got PK. I'm pretty damn pumped.

Yup, the future is now. I want to go all in now.

 

[Byrddog]

What will the Cap be in 2025 or 2026? 24M might not look so bad if the Cap is $170M.

This will get worked out. What happens if Shea is traded again?

Is Nashville off the hook and Montreal on it?

Good Gawd I hope this is really a comical post. That would mean in the next 9 years the cap increases over 10 mil per year. Hell there are already articles indicating the cap could fall to 67 mil next season. If the loonie does in fact hit .59 like is being projected this years cap situation is going to look like fantasy land.

 

[Drake744]

Not to sound dismissive and arrogant, but I have a hard time being concerned about something 10 years away.

We just got PK. I'm pretty damn pumped.

Yes. Live for the now. Enjoy what you can see in front of you and not be afraid of the hypothetical more years down the road than we could ever predict.

 

[Enoch]

I still have major major doubts about the recapture penalty. First, Weber has to retire and not get injured. Second, the league would have to feel comfortable enforcing a rule that:
A) Was written after this contract was signed (and the league approved)
B) written with The idea that a team is circumventing the cap, which in the Predators situation they were ...
C) Not attempting to circumvent the cap, just match an offer to keep their player and finally (which was designed as a poison pill for us with the upfront money).
D) I a curious how much true cap benefit we received as we never were a cap team ... And rarely close.

The league has been doing solids for teams all over the place. The Kovalchuk situation is crazy. How Mike Richards and the Kings situation played out is against the spirit of the CBA. Pronger is still on IR and working for the league ...

The rule, by letter, applies, but I am skeptical that it will ever apply in this situation