Player Discussion Shea Weber Part II *Mod Warning posts 142, 200, 386 & 526*

[Fazkovsky]

One factor that we forgot with Weber is that with the success that he has and popularity it will convince free agents and teams of other players that it is possible to be successful in Montreal and it<s a good place to play.

Yes, we signed Radulov but we did out of the KHL.

For example, if we trade for Edler, some fans will be saying that he wont waive for Montreal. Well, first of all nobody knows that for sure yet and when a player like Edler sees how Weber is performing, he will be a lot more convinced now. because players may be scared of the coach's system, the media and ,etc.

Subban was developped within the organization and KOvalev well was Kovalev. Cammaleri, gionta , gomez dont count to me as LEGIT superstars. Carey pRice was developed within the organization.

ANyone else think this is a bigger plus than we thought?

 

[Newhabfan]

I love what I'm seeing with Weber but I'm waiting to see how he (and the team) will do after 2-3 losses. And in the playoffs. That's when we'll know for sure.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

How many times does it need to be repeated. Many of the the fans who didn't like the trade when it went down said they weren't pissed at Weber the player. Sure a few might've directed it towards Weber but most seemed like they were pissed at the arrogant GM and coach instead.

They likely felt Subban was traded because the GM and coach didn't like him or felt that the GM chose his friend the coach over his fan favorite star player. Habs management had to expect some serious backlash for trading Subban and they got it.

Why some here keep labeling people who didn't like the trade Weber haters is beyond me. Most Hab fans knew exactly who Weber was and how good he was but again most of the anger over the trade was directed MB and MT's way and not towards Weber the player.

There weren't exactly Weber haters but they were people who thought that we really got gypped and that MB was banking almost wholly on intangibles. And we were getting a player who was not useless but on a worrying decline. Plenty of people said that and that can't be taken back

OK, so you like Weber's first 8 games. We all do.

We'll also likely enjoy his next 2 or 3 years, after that, who knows.

We all knew Weber would be good now. That 4 year age difference argument was not about the immediate future, so Weber doing well was not unexpected.

The trade puts the team in a win-now frame and that's what they're doing, despite the fact that we're only 8 games in. If the team doesn't make it this year or next, it won't be on Weber, but on continuing unaddressed weaknesses at the center position, the addition of a first pairing PMD and the lunacy of continuing to trust Therrien.

To be fair it's hard as hell to get a top 6 C. From what I've seen I don't think it's a case of MB not seeing the team's deficiencies. Who do we give up to get one? I do agree we need one though. Hoping there's someone available at the deadline. MB has made some really good deadline deals.

It's fair to say Sergachev is probably a year away so I think it's a safe gamble to bank on one of the most talented D prospects around rather than making a deal for someone and creating a hole elsewhere imo.

MT does a lot of infuriating things but personally if you put together a Cup roster I don't see why we couldn't win with him behind the bench. it's not like we exactly have had a Cup calibre team these last 4 years. We've had modest playoff success at a level that was pretty comparable to the rosters we've had. I'm not a huge fan but I don't really know if he's a handicap on this team. Would we do better with a Hitch or a Q or a Babcock? Probably but I really don't know how much. I don't think better coaching would've gotten us past the Rags.

 

[Runner77]

To be fair it's hard as hell to get a top 6 C. From what I've seen I don't think it's a case of MB not seeing the team's deficiencies. Who do we give up to get one? I do agree we need one though. Hoping there's someone available at the deadline. MB has made some really good deadline deals.

It's fair to say Sergachev is probably a year away so I think it's a safe gamble to bank on one of the most talented D prospects around rather than making a deal for someone and creating a hole elsewhere imo.

MT does a lot of infuriating things but personally if you put together a Cup roster I don't see why we couldn't win with him behind the bench. it's not like we exactly have had a Cup calibre team these last 4 years. We've had modest playoff success at a level that was pretty comparable to the rosters we've had. I'm not a huge fan but I don't really know if he's a handicap on this team. Would we do better with a Hitch or a Q or a Babcock? Probably but I really don't know how much. I don't think better coaching would've gotten us past the Rags.

I don't disagree with most of the points made except the one where this team will win with Therrien. Not sold on that at all. He gets easily derailed and irrational when dealing with adversity, especially in the playoffs where several coaches have played with his head and caused a systems failure. I don't think he's the guy for the job right now, but would welcome being proven wrong.

As for Weber .... well, this is a Weber thread and he's looking great so far.

 

[aresknights]

I'm not sure why you guys were so rough on Weber when the deal originally went down..

In my opinion the guys a beast.


He's a monster hitter. Excellent size. Plays the game the 'right' way. Puts up points. One of the hardest shot's in the league. Good in his own zone and very good transitionally.

He's a top 3 dman in the league. Maybe no.2 behind Karlsson. why would you guys be surprised that he's doing so well so far?

Well the #s suggested.... But they were looked at without context.
The Olympic team staff new nothing.
His peers opinions didnt count for squat.
The eye test didnt matter.
He had a rough 2 game PO stretch (as did his whole team)
Nashville never make a conf final ( in a much tougher/deeper conf)
.........

Looking back it was fumny to read and I would respond occassionaly but those set on the trade is bad now or will be in 2/3 years dug in and used all the above to try n justify their point.
Time will tell n Im sure Weber is the better fit for the team ( as a player, teammate, contract, leader....) now, in 2 yrs and in 5yrs

 

[aresknights]

I loved the trade from Day 1. It was almost like Christmas when you open the package and see that you got what you wanted instead of the usual pair of socks. . I kept telling myself...the Habs just got Shea Weber. Was a great day for me and still loving it every game that I watch.

Ditto

 

[Habby Gilmore]

^^ I'm in that group too, I've wanted Weber on our team since before the 2010 Olympics. I couldn't believe we had finally got him when I heard the news that day!! I never understood the hate for the trade at all??

 

[Toene]

I would guess that you're half right. They didn't know him when the trade went through so they made all those dire predictions. Now that they have gotten to know him they can't admit they were wrong. But trust me they know or else we wouldn't constantly hear the same two refrains over and over again:

1) It's too early to tell it's only _____(fill in the number) games
2) A trade like this can only be evaluated 4-5 years from now. In other words when everyone has forgotten what everybody claimed.

To be fair Weber right now is playing miles better than what he showed since 2-3 years. Not even the people happy with the trade could've predicted he would have that kind of start.

Now it must be euphoriant for you to act all proud and stuff but you're denying that people raised valid concern about his play, and you dismissing it as "they never watched him" is, without disrespect, so puerile. You act as if you know better than other posters and it just isnt true. Some posters had greatly build arguments supported by stats and the eye-test. What is going on right now is not habitual and could not have been predicted. But most importantly MOST posters against the trade said they would have to wait to see him play before judging. You strawmanning the situation to paint the people against the trade like they are stupid or "haters" or w/e is a bit arrogant, honestly. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here. You think you are the only one who had seen Weber play before the trade lol?

(mod)

 

[HabsQC]

 

[Scintillating10]

Price's career save percentage .920. This year playing behind Weber .954. Montoya's career save percentage .909, this season behind Weber .955.

Rinne's career save percentage .917. This season without Weber .906.

 

[bigd]

Price's career save percentage .920. This year playing behind Weber .954. Montoya's career save percentage .909, this season behind Weber .955.

Rinne's career save percentage .917. This season without Weber .906.

But PK is sooo much more fun to watch, even if in a losing atmosphere.

 

[Perrah]

Price's career save percentage .920. This year playing behind Weber .954. Montoya's career save percentage .909, this season behind Weber .955.

Rinne's career save percentage .917. This season without Weber .906.

Rinne's was .908 last year with Weber. Nice try though.

 

[Habs Icing]

Rinne's was .908 last year with Weber. Nice try though.

Firstly he said career numbers

Secondly Rinnie's numbers last year were almost identical to his numbers this year yet one of the reasons many of you are giving as Nashville's bad start is Rinnie's play. How can that be? He played at the same level last year and the preds went to the 2nd round.

 

[themilosh]

Rinne's was .908 last year with Weber. Nice try though.

He cited : "Career avg sv%".not just last year. Weber is doing to the Habs what Chara did to the Bruins. throw in Price, send DD to wherever and we have as much a shot at the Cup as anyone in the fav bucket.

 

[Perrah]

Firstly he said career numbers

Secondly Rinnie's numbers last year were almost identical to his numbers this year yet one of the reasons many of you are giving as Nashville's bad start is Rinnie's play. How can that be? He played at the same level last year and the preds went to the 2nd round.

He cited : "Career avg sv%".not just last year. Weber is doing to the Habs what Chara did to the Bruins. throw in Price, send DD to wherever and we have as much a shot at the Cup as anyone in the fav bucket.

Firstly, secondly, and thirdly they cited those numbers like Rinnes play has changed from last year which Rinne had a .908 sv%. It shows the 0.906 has nothing to do with missing Weber. Par for the course though, Im perceived as a trade hater so all the crew comes to the rescue of a terrible post that shows absolutely nothing, because ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hes one of the good guys.

 

[loudi94]

Firstly, secondly, and thirdly they cited those numbers like Rinnes play has changed from last year which Rinne had a .908 sv%. It shows the 0.906 has nothing to do with missing Weber. Par for the course though, Im perceived as a trade hater so all the crew comes to the rescue of a terrible post that shows absolutely nothing, because ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hes one of the good guys.

Is it possible that the quality of shots allowed (not really measurable) is a factor in the perception that Rinne is struggling? I haven't seen Price/Montoya have to make too many 2nd and 3rd saves with Weber et al. on the ice. I don't watch Nasville play when they wear those yellow atrocities so I am only wildly speculating.

 

[Grant McCagg]

Well the #s suggested.... But they were looked at without context.
The Olympic team staff new nothing.
His peers opinions didnt count for squat.
The eye test didnt matter.
He had a rough 2 game PO stretch (as did his whole team)
Nashville never make a conf final ( in a much tougher/deeper conf)
.........

Looking back it was fumny to read and I would respond occassionaly but those set on the trade is bad now or will be in 2/3 years dug in and used all the above to try n justify their point.
Time will tell n Im sure Weber is the better fit for the team ( as a player, teammate, contract, leader....) now, in 2 yrs and in 5yrs

I was roasted on twitter and lost at least 100 followers for simply stating that Weber is a beast and I liked the trade. The advanced stats gang in particular went out of their way to inform me and anyone else that defended the trade that we were nuts.

Weber was washed up because he was -5 in his last playoff game. By 32 he would be sent to the minors.

Price is in his prime..the prime time to win is over the next five years..while IMO Weber..just like Bourque, Lidstrom, MacInnis, Howe, Leetch, Chara, Chelios, Blake and dozens of other elite dmen before him..will still be a superior defencemen who is nowhere close to being on the decline. His shot, size, strength grit, smarts and character aren't going to disappear.

 

[Perrah]

Is it possible that the quality of shots allowed (not really measurable) is a factor in the perception that Rinne is struggling? I haven't seen Price/Montoya have to make too many 2nd and 3rd saves with Weber et al. on the ice. I don't watch Nasville play when they wear those yellow atrocities so I am only wildly speculating.

Sure anything is possible but quoting sv pct this year vs career avg for 2 goalies is terrible way to try and show Webers great effect. Especially when one is past their prime and the other in the midst of it. Last year after 5 games Price had a .957 sv pct. So perhaps someone can clue me into what that great stat quoting was all about, other than a bad attempt to make something out of nothing.

 

[Bergevillain]

Price's career save percentage .920. This year playing behind Weber .954. Montoya's career save percentage .909, this season behind Weber .955.

Rinne's career save percentage .917. This season without Weber .906.

Price has 400~ career games in the regular season alone, and 5 games playing with Weber.

That's all I have to say about this ridiculous stat. (mod)

 

[LaP]

Firstly he said career numbers

Secondly Rinnie's numbers last year were almost identical to his numbers this year yet one of the reasons many of you are giving as Nashville's bad start is Rinnie's play. How can that be? He played at the same level last year and the preds went to the 2nd round.

Career doesn't matters when it comes to 33 years old vet. What matters is what they did last year.

BTW anyone who think Price will be able to sustain a .950+ saves % for a whole season is smoking some seriously good stuff. If he does he'll become a legend and 30 years for now nobody will say Price had a legendary year because of Weber people will just say Price is a legend, Price is god.

 

[Adriatic]

I was roasted on twitter and lost at least 100 followers for simply stating that Weber is a beast and I liked the trade. The advanced stats gang in particular went out of their way to inform me and anyone else that defended the trade that we were nuts.

Lolol they are like a cult, like Scientologists walking around with their pamphlets looking for converts, except instead of pamphlets it's corsi and advance stats sheets. I think they don't even watch games.

 

[LaP]

Sure anything is possible but quoting sv pct this year vs career avg for 2 goalies is terrible way to try and show Webers great effect. Especially when one is past their prime and the other in the midst of it. Last year after 5 games Price had a .957 sv pct. So perhaps someone can clue me into what that great stat quoting was all about, other than a bad attempt to make something out of nothing.

What is even more terrible is one of the goalies is 33 years old and has been crap the whole previous season. The other is 29, in his prime and posted a .933/.934 saves % the previous 2 seasons. Of course Price's numbers right now will be over his career average. He is in his prime and his career average count his bad seasons when he was very young and has yet to count all his prime years. In the case of Rinne it looks like he might be past his prime (might be just a bad sequence). Of course his number this year (and last year) will be under his career average as this average count all his prime years.

It's the same for about every players in the league history. Season average of a player in his prime is over his career average. Season average of a player past his prime is under his career average. Sky is blue. News at 11.

 

[Deebs]

 

[Whitesnake]

Wow. Congrats Shea. Awesome October month indeed!

 

[Newhabfan]

To quote him when he learned he had the "Molson cup" for october: "Good thing that Carey was absent for while, otherwise..."

This was named the "Carey Price cup" for a while. However, it seems to me that some of his "stars" were obtained in games where Price was present ? He only had to do his magic in the Leafs game, which is a positive thing.