Value of: Shea Theodore

[Ledge And Dairy]

The only way that McCrimmon would take Marner is if he saw an opening to flip him to somebody else within 48 hours for an upgrade somewhere. But I very seriously doubt that Marner would ever wear a Knights uniform, even with substantial retention.

I feel like we are talking about 2 different teams GM's here. I'm talking about Kelly McCrimmon, the GM of the Vegas Golden Knights. A GM notoriously known for always getting the big name guy on the market no matter the cost. Who are you talking about?

 

[Blueston]

I... Uh... idk where to go from here. I thought I was gonna get made fun of. LOL

by your fellow blues fans? bc i'm not sure why we want a 29yo soon to be ufa with injury/availability concerns?

 

[lanceuppercut75]

I could see Florida wanting to add Theodore, but not having the assets.

Toronto? But it's probably not a smart move IMO. Their GM could disagree with me. Only makes sense if Marner is involved, or Marner returns assets from a third team which are then flipped to Vegas for Theodore. It's maybe too complicated.

I could definitely see Rangers wanting to move Trouba out and replace with Theodore. That would probably involve a third team though, as Vegas is looking to move a D out without bringing another back, and also Trouba can block a bunch of teams based on his NTC.

Dallas could make sense, except for the fact that all 4 of their top 4 D would be left handed. Not ideal at all. Outside of that, Dallas DOES want a high end right-side D, and all of Benn, Faksa, Dadonov, Lindell and Suter come off the books next summer when Theodore would get a raise. It's conceivable that Dallas adds Theodore now but ends up keeping him long-term. Like I said though, do they really want 4 left-handed top 4 D?

St Louis works, but only if they're moving Krug, Parayko, Faulk or Leddy out this summer. Otherwise, no chance in hell IMO.

Edmonton makes a lot of sense in theory, but they don't have the assets. They'd probably only have to dump Ceci somewhere to make it work, which seems very reasonable based on Ceci's cap hit and only 1 year of term.

I could see it being a good fit with the Kings (with no extension, as a 1 year rental), but they aren't a legit contender right now and probably shouldn't be paying assets for one year rentals just yet.

I think Seattle is a good fit, IF they think they can extend Theodore long-term. No reason for them to bring him in as a 1 year rental.

Vancouver is maybe a good fit? I've seen that some Vancouver fans think so. They have a lot of guys they want to keep, especially Zadorov and Joshua, and not enough cap to keep all of them and give Hronek a big raise, so maybe this is something they would look at if they end up trading Hronek out. That way, there might be enough money for Theodore, Zadorov and Joshua. Maybe Lindholm too but IDK.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Basically exactly what the Leafs need. Offensive puck moving top 4 D, has won a cup and has lots of playoff experience, and still has prime years left.

I would think the Leafs have almost nothing off the table to get this done. Leaf fans will hate it but Cowan should be available for this player.

What?

Rielly's puck-moving and and powerplay abiltiies are not elite, so yeah, ideally we would want to add another D like that at some point, but a high-end right handed D that can penalty kill and play good defense is definitely a bigger priority for Toronto than adding a puck-mover. Remember when Toronto had Rielly and Liles and no high end shutdown RHD? Even if Liles had been a better player than he was, it still wouldn't have been as useful as adding that RHD shutdown guy.

As for "nothing off the table to get this done" and "Cowan"... totally totally disagree. This is a 1 year contract and Theodore is UFA age. As Matthews, Nylander and Rielly age, we need to keep high quality young kids coming into the team and becoming core or "semi-core" players. That's what Boston does, and why they haven't had to tear it all down and rebuild. If you don't do that, you become the Sharks from a few years ago or Detroit from a decade ago. Assuming Cowan is a decent top 9 forward, keeping him is smarter for our cap in 25/26 and 26/27 as compared to Theodore.

 

[hamzarocks]

Three way trade:

To Leafs: Theodore +

To Seattle: Marner

To Knights: 1st + prospect

 

[bert]

I pretty clearly stated a 3rd team would probably need to retain. And no Theodore and Marner are relatively similar caliber players. Saying Theodore is flat out better is very anti-leafs of you

I have watched one player raise his game and thrive come playoff time, ive seen the other avoid contact, dodge blocking shots and consistently lower his game the bigger the moment. I cant unsee it.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Three way trade:

To Leafs: Theodore +

To Seattle: Marner

To Knights: 1st + prospect

Seattle's biggest needs are top pairing D (preferably RHD) or at least top 4 RHD, and true first line center. The thing they have the most of which they need the least is scoring wingers. Therefore, Marner going to Seattle without a winger being traded out (probably Bjorkstrand or maybe Schwartz or Burakovsky) is probably not going to work.

Maybe Leafs get Bjorkstrand and Theodore? And Dumoulin for cap reasons (1 year contract). Seattle gets Marner (who agrees to extend there). Vegas gets 8th overall, or instead 2025 SEA 1ST and a prospect. I don't know about exact trade value. I'm more looking at roster needs and cap costs.

I think Theodore wanting to extend in Toronto makes this deal more likely. Marner not wanting to extend in Seattle kills the deal. It's too much to give up for Seattle for 1 year of Marner, especially when they aren't a contender. An extended Marner MIGHT make sense... but then again, Seattle blowing those assets should probably look at a stud D or 1st line center, if they could find one available on the trade market.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

In the last 3 years Marner has twice been voted a 1st team all star. Literally the best at his position and a selke finalist.

98 pt pace.

Theodore is what a top 25-30 D.

They are no where near of same caliber.



???? Why??? He took Tatar. Max p. eichel.

None of these are power forwards or had any real history of playoff success. Eichel was a massive whiner (pre neck injury).

And we've all seen what happens to Marner every playoff season. Damaged goods.

Tatar and Pacioretty didn't last long because they were not playoff players. By contrast, Eichel proved last season to be a playoff monster and was in the hunt for the Conn Smythe.

If y'all think Marner is so good, keep him.

 

[cslebn]

What would the ask be for utah?

 

[VivaLasVegas]

I feel like we are talking about 2 different teams GM's here. I'm talking about Kelly McCrimmon, the GM of the Vegas Golden Knights. A GM notoriously known for always getting the big name guy on the market no matter the cost. Who are you talking about?

The McCrimmon who values playoff players more than just big names and who sends players who don't do well in the playoffs packing. Besides, Marner isn't that big of a name outside of Toronto, and whichever GM does land him will probably be laughed at as a sucker by the rest. We Vegas fans sure as hell don't want him.

 

[CanadienShark]

Seattle's biggest needs are top pairing D (preferably RHD) or at least top 4 RHD, and true first line center. The thing they have the most of which they need the least is scoring wingers. Therefore, Marner going to Seattle without a winger being traded out (probably Bjorkstrand or maybe Schwartz or Burakovsky) is probably not going to work.

Maybe Leafs get Bjorkstrand and Theodore? And Dumoulin for cap reasons (1 year contract). Seattle gets Marner (who agrees to extend there). Vegas gets 8th overall, or instead 2025 SEA 1ST and a prospect. I don't know about exact trade value. I'm more looking at roster needs and cap costs.

I think Theodore wanting to extend in Toronto makes this deal more likely. Marner not wanting to extend in Seattle kills the deal. It's too much to give up for Seattle for 1 year of Marner, especially when they aren't a contender. An extended Marner MIGHT make sense... but then again, Seattle blowing those assets should probably look at a stud D or 1st line center, if they could find one available on the trade market.

Damn that's an amazing offer... For Toronto.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

Damn that's an amazing offer... For Toronto.

I don't see what's so unfair about it.

9 years of Marner (I suppose it could be 6 or 7 or 8 in theory)
for
1 year of Theodore at cheap cap hit
2 years of Bjorkstrand (top 6 winger)
1 year of Dumoulin (bottom pair D)

There will be Bjorkstrand level wingers and Dumoulin level D available on July 1st for around those same cap hits. I'm not saying their value is nothing, but they don't have huge value or anything like that.

 

[CanadienShark]

I don't see what's so unfair about it.

9 years of Marner (I suppose it could be 6 or 7 or 8 in theory)
for
1 year of Theodore at cheap cap hit
2 years of Bjorkstrand (top 6 winger)
1 year of Dumoulin (bottom pair D)

There will be Bjorkstrand level wingers and Dumoulin level D available on July 1st for around those same cap hits. I'm not saying their value is nothing, but they don't have huge value or anything like that.

It drastically improves Toronto and doesn't make any sense whatsoever for Seattle. Maybe for Vegas it's alright, but I can't say for sure since I haven't looked too closely into their cap situation.

 

[lanceuppercut75]

It drastically improves Toronto and doesn't make any sense whatsoever for Seattle. Maybe for Vegas it's alright, but I can't say for sure since I haven't looked too closely into their cap situation.

Vegas is like Toronto in terms of cap... they're always close to the cap, and dumping cap anytime anywhere is great for them if they aren't paying assets to do so. The bigger issue with Vegas this summer is that they have 7 Dmen that are good enough that they should be playing every night. Makes sense to move one out for assets so the other 6 can play every game that they're healthy.

For reference: they had 6 every-night D, then went to 7 adding Hanifin, but will go back to 6 when Martinez becomes a UFA in July. However, Korczak is NHL ready and good, and also becomes waiver eligible this summer, bringing it from 6 back up to 7.

Hanifin - Pietrangelo
McNabb - Theodore
Hague - Whitecloud
( 8 ) - Korczak

Cap implications of trade = dump Theodore and his cap hit, take zero cap back in return, receive assets for Theodore

 

[HockeyVirus]

What?

Rielly's puck-moving and and powerplay abiltiies are not elite, so yeah, ideally we would want to add another D like that at some point, but a high-end right handed D that can penalty kill and play good defense is definitely a bigger priority for Toronto than adding a puck-mover. Remember when Toronto had Rielly and Liles and no high end shutdown RHD? Even if Liles had been a better player than he was, it still wouldn't have been as useful as adding that RHD shutdown guy.

As for "nothing off the table to get this done" and "Cowan"... totally totally disagree. This is a 1 year contract and Theodore is UFA age. As Matthews, Nylander and Rielly age, we need to keep high quality young kids coming into the team and becoming core or "semi-core" players. That's what Boston does, and why they haven't had to tear it all down and rebuild. If you don't do that, you become the Sharks from a few years ago or Detroit from a decade ago. Assuming Cowan is a decent top 9 forward, keeping him is smarter for our cap in 25/26 and 26/27 as compared to Theodore.

The Leafs have lots of defensive minded players. A shutdown D is an outdated need. They need offense from the blue line. They need puck movers. They already have McCabe, Benoit, and really who knows else who play that style but can't move the puck.

Obviously he would come with an extension.

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

Is Vegas exclusively trying to move his deal? Detroit is loaded at LD, so I could see something like Walman+Berggren+pick for Theodore+Roy/Barbashev/whatever forward is odd man out there

 

[The Duck Knight]

Is Vegas exclusively trying to move his deal? Detroit is loaded at LD, so I could see something like Walman+Berggren+pick for Theodore+Roy/Barbashev/whatever forward is odd man out there

Vegas doesn't even NEED to move Theodore. They can move Howden+Whitecloud and have enough to bring back the same roster essentially minus Stephenson. The idea behind a Theodore move would be to strengthen the top 6 and not have to pay Theodore's next deal. Can't see any reason they would move any forwards other than Howden or Kolesar.

And that offer isn't close. Without Theodore Vegas has 7 NHL D already signed next year.

 

[KasperTheGrittyGhost]

Vegas doesn't even NEED to move Theodore. They can move Howden+Whitecloud and have enough to bring back the same roster essentially minus Stephenson. The idea behind a Theodore move would be to strengthen the top 6 and not have to pay Theodore's next deal. Can't see any reason they would move any forwards other than Howden or Kolesar.

And that offer isn't close. Without Theodore Vegas has 7 NHL D already signed next year.

Bringing back the same roster doesn’t really sound like what McCrimmon and co are up to though, no?

 

[Hale The Villain]

Bringing back the same roster doesn’t really sound like what McCrimmon and co are up to though, no?

It's not the same roster. They have already added Hertl and Hanifin.

 

[The Duck Knight]

Bringing back the same roster doesn’t really sound like what McCrimmon and co are up to though, no?

Oh definitely not.

But that's why a Theodore trade for a top 6 RW makes sense. There aren't any dumps to make to free up cap. The options to change the roster are basically let Marchie walk and sign a replacement (Stamkos/Reinhart?) or sign Marchie/_____ and trade Theo for a forward.

 

[SirPaste]

Theodore for Buchnevich. Lots of Rumors that Vegas wanted Buch last trade deadline and Blues want a LHD to put with Parayko. Similar ages, similar cap hits. Blues retain on Buch to 5.2 Mil.


Ok, I'm ready to get yelled at. Sorry Vegas fans.

I like Theodore but this doesn't work for the same reason it doesn't make sense to re-sign Buch. His age doesn't really line up with our re-tool and will likely be demanding a huge contract that pays him late into his 30s that the Blues are just not in a position to hand out right now. So I think it makes sense to move Buch for either someone younger or prospects/picks.

 

[Americanadian]

To VGK: Marner (50% retained), Holmberg (or Dewar), Kurashev (-6.5M)
To TOR: Theodore, Roy, Hill (+1.4M)
To CHI: Minten, Howden, Brisson, 50% of Marner’s salary (+5.1M)

 

[Roomba With a Bauer]

From the Wings I would make a starting offer of 15OA , Berggren, 2nd and see what VGK would counter with.

I don't see VGK having cap flexibility to add to the top 6 and no one is going to take enough of Marner's salary to matter without a first being attached.

 

[hangman005]

I... Uh... idk where to go from here. I thought I was gonna get made fun of. LOL

Jump on a Southwest and we'll work out the details later

 

[blackjackmulligan]

If he is available, it has the Flyers written all over it.