Sharks fire David Quinn

[StreetHawk]

It's not like he's any good, but what did they really expect with that roster?

Main thing is...i can't imagine promising, high quality up and coming coaches (or even veteran retreads) are going to be lining up around the block to take that job in his place. Especially not when apparently you might even get fired for tanking out with a tank built kind of embarrassing roster. Like...it looks like basically career suicide.

I agree. Plus Grier hired Quinn and typically we only see GMs get to hire 2 HC unless they are able to achieve a goal. For Grier that would be from rebuilding to making the PO. And he's already used his after year 2. So, how much time is the new HC going to get? Cause SJ seems like 3-4 more years of being in the bottom 5-7 ahead of them. Hard pressed for the next HC to get SJ to turn the corner in that time frame to warrant another contract from the team.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

So then what about any of that is something where his judgment warrants scrutiny? He took a chance on a person in Russia with experience in scouting and front office work and fired him because he wasn't doing what he was being asked. Yeah, he was a little more public about it than you expect over a scout but a new GM using something like this as a way to assert himself is also not unheard of.

His judgement warrants scrutiny simply by being a GM, especially a new one who has just hired and fired his first coach. He recently fired someone else very publicly, which is neither good or bad but uncommon nevertheless. My comment really doesnt go beyond that.

 

[SharksCyclops]

I'm not surprised at the terrible takes most people have given, HF typically proves themselves wrong after the initial dust settles. I get it's black and white for most of you when a team tanks, but there are shades of grey when you factor in personal and professional development for a young team. Losing by 1 or 2 goals isn't the same as losing by 9.

Funny thing too, most of you would hop on a thread and condemn the Sharks for giving up 10 goals and then the same lot of you are saying "a loss is a loss so what difference does a different coach make?", y'all just complain to complain, very little critical thinking with you talking heads.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

His judgement warrants scrutiny simply by being a GM, especially a new one who has just hired and fired his first coach. He recently fired someone else very publicly, which is neither good or bad but uncommon nevertheless. My comment really doesnt go beyond that.

Yes but that isn't actually saying anything. You're saying he warrants scrutiny but aren't really scrutinizing it in any real manner. That's why I was curious. Part of scrutinizing anything involves some sort of observation or examination not just merely mentioning that something happened.

 

[pcruz]

"We're consciously going to lose as many games as possible and go Scorched Earth in order to give us the best odds at the 1st overall pick"


"I can't believe we lost so many games, yeah, the coach has got to go!!!"



The logic is sound!

 

[Pinkfloyd]

It's not like he's any good, but what did they really expect with that roster?

Main thing is...i can't imagine promising, high quality up and coming coaches (or even veteran retreads) are going to be lining up around the block to take that job in his place. Especially not when apparently you might even get fired for tanking out with a tank built kind of embarrassing roster. Like...it looks like basically career suicide.

Firing Quinn wasn't about expectations relative to the roster. It's largely to get ahead of a lameduck coaching situation in what could be a critical player development season. Quinn's contract was set to expire after next season and they probably weren't going to extend him so do it now, bring in someone you expect to be on for at least a couple seasons, and see where you're at.

I agree. Plus Grier hired Quinn and typically we only see GMs get to hire 2 HC unless they are able to achieve a goal. For Grier that would be from rebuilding to making the PO. And he's already used his after year 2. So, how much time is the new HC going to get? Cause SJ seems like 3-4 more years of being in the bottom 5-7 ahead of them. Hard pressed for the next HC to get SJ to turn the corner in that time frame to warrant another contract from the team.

The 2 HC hire thing is meaningless as it lacks context. A manager is not given a set number of years, hires, or expectations that are rigidly enforced. Plenty of tenured managers are working on their 4th coach or more. The new HC will get as much time as he's still effective for the team moving forward. It's hard to imagine Quinn being super effective with one year left on his contract after two heavy losing seasons when the tensions of losing like this brought out some fractures within the room and just for the fact that Quinn isn't all that good as a head coach to begin with. He's not bad but he's not good either. He did what he was brought in to do. Coach a bad team for a little while so that the team can make progress in certain areas. He worked to make Erik Karlsson tradeable. He isn't without some due credit. It just makes sense to move on if the team isn't intending on extending his contract after next year to prevent a lameduck coaching situation and potentially a wasted development year.

"We're consciously going to lose as many games as possible and go Scorched Earth in order to give us the best odds at the 1st overall pick"


"I can't believe we lost so many games, yeah, the coach has got to go!!!"



The logic is sound!

Why don't you actually use a quote of something any of the actual people involved had to say about why? Grier said they wanted a new voice. When you lose as much as they did with Quinn the past couple years, you need to make changes even if the coach isn't the biggest reason they suck. They weren't going into this season with the intention of tanking but they were understanding that they weren't going to be a good team based on the talent they had and what they had to move as part of rebuilding. Also part of rebuilding is understanding when is a good time to part ways with people even if they did you a solid with what they were brought in to do. This is the right move for the Sharks for a number of reasons. They need to follow it up with a clear understanding of what their immediate and long-term future looks like. Yeah, it's not likely they're a playoff team in the next five years but there are probably better options to coach the team when they're now closer to turning the team over to younger players and have cap space to make significant additions. Next year is the actual start of player development for the next competitive Sharks team. This past year was more about eating bad contracts and giving certain players opportunities without asking prospects to step in at such a young age and lose in embarrassing fashion frequently.

 

[MikeK]

A little too late. Had they made this change around Xmas they might have reached 25 wins.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Yes but that isn't actually saying anything. You're saying he warrants scrutiny but aren't really scrutinizing it in any real manner. That's why I was curious. Part of scrutinizing anything involves some sort of observation or examination not just merely mentioning that something happened.

My original post was in response to someone saying that Grier fired Quinn due to a lack of trust. My point was that we cannot assume that as fact. that he has recently fired someone in a somewhat dramatic fashion was used to illustrate that his actions, and therefore presumably his rationalizations, are not so restricted by convention that we can so easily predict them.

Next time, perhaps you can use your powers of observation to discern this deep subtext on your own. If you think what I'm saying is banal, well, ditto kiddo.

 

[weastern bias]

They weren't going into this season with the intention of tanking but they were understanding that they weren't going to be a good team based on the talent they had and what they had to move as part of rebuilding.

The Sharks were absolutely tanking on purpose this season

 

[BelovedIsles]

I like what Grier’s done. He’s gotten good returns on Meier, Karlsson, and Hertl. He’s cleaned house, now he’s slowly building a stable of prospects and young NHL’ers. Early stages, but he’s doing it the right way. Add Cellibrini, that accelerates the rebuild.

Zetterlund, in particular, was a nice find. He’s got perennial 30-goal seasons written all over him.

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Enough with the college coaches already.

 

[Satoru Gojo]

Given some history with the organization, Jay Woodcroft makes sense here

 

[GOilers88]

Given some history with the organization, Jay Woodcroft makes sense here

Actually I think that's a really good idea. Definitely a players coach and a good guy to have around for developing players. I think he got a bit of a raw deal in Edmonton and is a good coach.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Sharks firing Quinn seems rather useless to me. They're not going to be a good team for a while, even if they win the Celebrini lottery. That's not really on the coach but on a gutted out and rotting roster.

TBF, Quinn is rather useless himself.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Maybe he was too frank in his exit interview?

I wonder what Grier does for roster building with kids. There is a guy with USA hockey ties who is currently unemployed as of last week who might be an option...

I was thinking the same thing. He's got a good track record with developing young players, especially if that's your goal and you aren't focused on winning games or needing him to make adjustments.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

My original post was in response to someone saying that Grier fired Quinn due to a lack of trust. My point was that we cannot assume that as fact. that he has recently fired someone in a somewhat dramatic fashion was used to illustrate that his actions, and therefore presumably his rationalizations, are not so restricted by convention that we can so easily predict them.

Next time, perhaps you can use your powers of observation to discern this deep subtext on your own. If you think what I'm saying is banal, well, ditto kiddo.

You deciding to use an instance of firing a scout as a means to make a point on convention and his restrictions is a bit of a stretch. There’s nothing unconventional about Grier firing Quinn. There’s nothing unconventional about being honest publicly about a firing. That does happen enough even if it’s not the norm.

The Sharks were absolutely tanking on purpose this season

Based on what? They had no option to improve. They weren’t trying to suck. They just were going to suck and traded guys that wanted out of a rebuild.

 

[Shark Finn]

No one here knows what the discussions were between Quinn and Grier. Grier seems to have an idea how he wants to construct the team identity going forward in the rebuild and the coach plays a huge role in that.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

David Quinn isn't as bad as you are told he is. He was no worse than Gerard Gallant for the Rangers. Gallant had some better luck with the success of certain key players having great years, so that's why his teams were moderately more successful.

With the Sharks, he didn't do a good job. He's not a good NHL coach. But only two years when you aren't given a roster you can win with is tough. Last year wasn't that bad. They also had the Norris winner. Coaching Karlsson to what he did has to count for something. He's been nowhere near that player recently other than that one season under Quinn. This year he was given a sub-NHL roster. Every single year we hear fans of the team with the worst roster (and also some of the other worst rosters) complain about how bad their coach is. Coaching isn't why they had the worst record in the league. Give them any coach and that's a very bad team.

 

[EazyE1]

didnt know they had one

 

[eojsmada]

Jay Woodcroft come on down!!!

 

[themelkman]

I was thinking the same thing. He's got a good track record with developing young players, especially if that's your goal and you aren't focused on winning games or needing him to make adjustments.

Does he? Certainly didnt help the guys in new york who never developed

 

[WaitingForThatCab]

Grier brothers sacrifice another coach lol

 

[Hunter Gathers]

David Quinn isn't as bad as you are told he is. He was no worse than Gerard Gallant for the Rangers. Gallant had some better luck with the success of certain key players having great years, so that's why his teams were moderately more successful.

With the Sharks, he didn't do a good job. He's not a good NHL coach. But only two years when you aren't given a roster you can win with is tough. Last year wasn't that bad. They also had the Norris winner. Coaching Karlsson to what he did has to count for something. He's been nowhere near that player recently other than that one season under Quinn. This year he was given a sub-NHL roster. Every single year we hear fans of the team with the worst roster (and also some of the other worst rosters) complain about how bad their coach is. Coaching isn't why they had the worst record in the league. Give them any coach and that's a very bad team.

Gallant and Quinn were a tag team of morons.

 

[weastern bias]

Based on what? They had no option to improve. They weren’t trying to suck. They just were going to suck and traded guys that wanted out of a rebuild.

Based on literally every move they made

They weren't forced to trade any of Meier, Karlsson or Hertl, they chose to

In doing so they chose to ice 9 bottom pair defensemen all seasom

In doing so they chose to let Quinn ice a 13th forward and a 21 year old winger as the 1C and 2C for a quarter of the season

They chose to trade Kahkonen and ice AHL goalies for the last quarter of the season

They chose to keep Quinn all year after multiple 10+ game losing streaks

This season was incredibly intentional, it was the goal in September to finish 32nd, mission accomplished

 

[Dirty Dog]

Granato would be a good fit for this young team