Speculation: Sharks 2015 Rumors/Trade Proposals/Lineup Talk Thread ‎Part V: Offseason Edition

[slocal]

The show must go on!

I'm open to title suggestions. Should we just start new and make this the offseason thread?

Click to read more...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'm done discussing the Bruins or any other team. Just because the fans want something doesn't mean you do it.

Bottom line is this team is retooling the roster with younger players if you can't handle that then you should go watch baseball. Because this year is likely to happen next year whether you think it's easy to make the playoffs or not.

There is a lot more going on than just the direction of the team in terms of personnel that is used as reasoning to fire DW. He didn't get the job done in the past direction. He's got a heavy hand involved in what is now reasonably seen as a toxic atmosphere within the locker room and their connection, or lack thereof, to the coaches and front office. The spat with Thornton alone is enough to fire a GM to a lot of people. You're oversimplifying the issue of DW's job status by just talking about the direction of the team.

It's also not a bright idea to tell someone to deal with it or go watch something else. It's not much of an argument. I also didn't say that it was easy to make the playoffs. I said it's not that big of an accomplishment.

 

[Rickety Cricket]

Here is what I think will happen:

DW is safe. He more or less said this was going to happen and I think Hasso is on board. I think he'll get promoted to some sort of President/Executive position. I think they'll promote Joe Will to GM (I remember them talking highly about him). They'll fire McLellan and replace him with Bylsma saying that he's a proven winner and cite his Olympic coaching experience as well as his experience as a player.

 

[Sarge15]

Bottom line is this team is retooling the roster with younger players if you can't handle that then you should go watch baseball. Because this year is likely to happen next year whether you think it's easy to make the playoffs or not.

I'm a fan of this team through thick and thin and whether they're fighting for the cup or in the offseason already looking for moves and decision to bring them back to contention and have a younger, more exciting and entertaining team playing, I support them. I just want the choices done right.

DW has had his time and made his choices, and it didn't bring the desired results with the players he chose.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

lol sorry slo...I was editing while you were in there. haha

 

[slocal]

lol sorry slo...I was editing while you were in there. haha

LOL, no worries, PF. That happens a lot.

 

[Gilligans Island]

More from Couture

"You show up and it's a brand new season and it should have got us more fired up," Couture said Wednesday when the Sharks met at the team's practice facility for the final time this season. "It should have made guys hungrier to come in and prove people wrong and have a better year, have your best year. It didn't and it's disappointing."

The Sharks integrated several young players into the lineup throughout the year and finished with 22 fewer points than in 2013-14. He certainly wasn't pinning San Jose's woes on its least-experienced players, but said the challenge for the rookies is to build on what they learned this year, and for other players to figure out what they need to do better.

http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/c...rce=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So... who's he referring to? Sounds like Patty, Hertl, Nieto, Niemi....Since Pavs and Jumbo still produced where it counts. He does lay off Hertl and Nieto later on in his quote.

 

[slocal]

More from Couture



http://www.mercurynews.com/sharks/c...rce=rss&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

So... who's he referring to? Sounds like Patty, Hertl, Nieto, Niemi....Since Pavs and Jumbo still produced where it counts. He does lay off Hertl and Nieto later on in his quote.

I'm still unsure whether it's Patty being lackadaisical, or if he just had a one-off bad year. Whether it's bad luck, or bad effort, I'm not sure. A teammate would know best when it comes to effort, so I do wonder which player/s he's speaking about. Then again, this could just be a canned response.

 

[Coily]

There is a lot more going on than just the direction of the team in terms of personnel that is used as reasoning to fire DW. He didn't get the job done in the past direction. He's got a heavy hand involved in what is now reasonably seen as a toxic atmosphere within the locker room and their connection, or lack thereof, to the coaches and front office. The spat with Thornton alone is enough to fire a GM to a lot of people. You're oversimplifying the issue of DW's job status by just talking about the direction of the team.

It's also not a bright idea to tell someone to deal with it or go watch something else. It's not much of an argument. I also didn't say that it was easy to make the playoffs. I said it's not that big of an accomplishment.

Ok. I'll concede Wilson didn't get the job done.

But, don't try and tell me Vlasic, Thornton, Marleau should be allowed to stay when they have been here for every playoff collapse.

I would rather see Wilson's plan unfold and I'm done trying to argue with people about it. You have you're view about pro sports management and I have another.

BTW, yes if you can't handle these lean years you should just go away. It's just annoying having to read posts from someone who does nothing but say "fire x". We get it, I too wanted Wilson gone in 2012, but I'm not going to support half way through a retooling of the roster getting rid of the head. It's just going to prolong the efforts made by the previous GM.

Many teams have retooled with the same GM and many have not. Since the last time we fired a GM didn't do anything I would like to try the approach of get new players maybe coaching. But, I'm sure everyone will conclude some random year/team to prove me wrong.

 

[Boy Hedican]

Couture didn't say anything bad or suggestive that he wants out. Not at all. He sounds like he's being real and answering the questions asked of him. Some of you made it sound like he's whining his way out for a trade. Geesh...

That said, again, I wont be shocked if he is traded for reasons not related to him voicing his opinion.

 

[Hangemhigh]

Thornton seems fine in his statements to me. I think he might have been remembering how the C was taken from him. Tmac forgot to tell him about it. Someone, DW or Tmac, should have told him to his face.

Culture is a big thing for the Sharks. They don't play hard for each other. They don't trust each other enough. It has been a problem for years.
Is that the job of the coach, the players, or the GM? Who creates the culture?

 

[Gilligans Island]

Couture didn't say anything bad or suggestive that he wants out. Not at all. He sounds like he's being real and answering the questions asked of him. Some of you made it sound like he's whining his way out for a trade. Geesh...

That said, again, I wont be shocked if he is traded for reasons not related to him voicing his opinion.

After reading his entire interview, I agree. It's almost refreshing to hear such candid responses.

I do think he's calling out some vets... and a lesser extent Nieto and Hertl.

As for vets, I'd say Pavs and Burns produced and were consistent - most of Burns' issues are too much effort, not being smart.

Jumbo, for the most part, produced and was consistent.

Niemi, enh.

Patty, definitely was not consistent. Braun perhaps could fall into this bucket - he had a down year.

The other vets don't really matter much - Hannan, Irwin, Wingels, and the bottom 6.

 

[hohosaregood]

Thornton seems fine in his statements to me. I think he might have been remembering how the C was taken from him. Tmac forgot to tell him about it. Someone, DW or Tmac, should have told him to his face.

Culture is a big thing for the Sharks. They don't play hard for each other. They don't trust each other enough. It has been a problem for years.
Is that the job of the coach, the players, or the GM? Who creates the culture?

It's impossible for us to know what they actually said to JT but from what DW and TM have said to the media, it doesn't sound like they ever explicitly said to Thornton "We're stripping you of the C".

I think the culture thing probably starts with the coaches and players btw.

 

[Led Zappa]

After reading his entire interview, I agree. It's almost refreshing to hear such candid responses.

I do think he's calling out some vets... and a lesser extent Nieto and Hertl.

As for vets, I'd say Pavs and Burns produced and were consistent - most of Burns' issues are too much effort, not being smart.

Jumbo, for the most part, produced and was consistent.

Niemi, enh.

Patty, definitely was not consistent. Braun perhaps could fall into this bucket - he had a down year.

The other vets don't really matter much - Hannan, Irwin, Wingels, and the bottom 6.

I recall a quote from Todd when asked about Vlasic and being captain. Something like "he has work to do" or something like that.

 

[Hangemhigh]

It's impossible for us to know what they actually said to JT but from what DW and TM have said to the media, it doesn't sound like they ever explicitly said to Thornton "We're stripping you of the C".

I think the culture thing probably starts with the coaches and players btw.

It was not professional that they didn't tell Thornton to his face they were taking the C from him. It was their way of laying the playoff choke on him. Possibly a symptom of their weak culture.

I think you are right. The coaches should drive the team culture and the top players need to reinforce it. Tmac not telling Thornton or Thornton not listening to Tmac isn't good at all.

 

[5H4RK5]

Couture didn't say anything bad or suggestive that he wants out. Not at all. He sounds like he's being real and answering the questions asked of him. Some of you made it sound like he's whining his way out for a trade. Geesh...

That said, again, I wont be shocked if he is traded for reasons not related to him voicing his opinion.

Mature for his age. No doubt, others clowning the GM and coach are out of control speaking of the JTx2 brothers. They have a tag team now.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Ok. I'll concede Wilson didn't get the job done.

But, don't try and tell me Vlasic, Thornton, Marleau should be allowed to stay when they have been here for every playoff collapse.

I would rather see Wilson's plan unfold and I'm done trying to argue with people about it. You have you're view about pro sports management and I have another.

BTW, yes if you can't handle these lean years you should just go away. It's just annoying having to read posts from someone who does nothing but say "fire x". We get it, I too wanted Wilson gone in 2012, but I'm not going to support half way through a retooling of the roster getting rid of the head. It's just going to prolong the efforts made by the previous GM.

Many teams have retooled with the same GM and many have not. Since the last time we fired a GM didn't do anything I would like to try the approach of get new players maybe coaching. But, I'm sure everyone will conclude some random year/team to prove me wrong.

It's arrogant to tell someone how to be a fan of a team. They're allowed to voice their opinion of the team even when they suck and not have to worry about some other fan's annoyance with hearing it. It's a lot easier to tell someone that they don't have to read or listen to what they say than it is to tell them to stop being a fan. People have every right to complain about the lean years because it generally means someone wasn't doing their job in the first place.

I'm not really advocating firing DW for the retool b.s. I advocate it for how he treated the players as a whole with his stupid comment at the STH event which only created a distraction for the team. He didn't do it for the sake of the team. He did it either out of sheer stupidity or to spite the team. Either way, it's irresponsible and unprofessional of him. The last time we fired a GM was 13 years ago. How is that even relevant to today? But the biggest reason why we can't move the players is because DW signed them to contracts with movement clauses. He tied his own hands and now is passive-aggressively trying to put it on them to get out.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Yeah Couture's interview was an honest assessment of the season. If Jumbo said those words there would be nothing but praise.

 

[hohosaregood]

Yeah Couture's interview was an honest assessment of the season. If Jumbo said those words there would be nothing but praise.

Is anybody ragging on Couture for the most recent blurb cuz I don't see that anywhere.

 

[Rickety Cricket]

I honestly have no problem with anything Thornton or Couture said. Pretty tame to be honest.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

Is anybody ragging on Couture for the most recent blurb cuz I don't see that anywhere.

The last thread. Some were calling him a whiner etc.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I honestly have no problem with anything Thornton or Couture said. Pretty tame to be honest.

The only way any of the player comments could cause anything more than what already is there is if they throw a specific person under the bus. But you can tell there are big issues that need to be fixed regardless of the whole retool/refresh/rebuild stuff.

 

[Gene Parmesan]

I chalk it up to frustration over a bad year in which they fell short of their own expectations. The players are allowed to feel that way. I'd be more concerned if they were all rainbows and smiles.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

I chalk it up to frustration over a bad year in which they fell short of their own expectations. The players are allowed to feel that way. I'd be more concerned if they were all rainbows and smiles.

I chalk it up as yellow journalism (only time I'm ever going to use that APUSH term ) by Pollak and Kurz and all of the other beat writers. We'll be fine. Agree with sjshark91 on keeping Wilson around.

 

[DonskoiDonscored]

I honestly have no problem with anything Thornton or Couture said. Pretty tame to be honest.

Is it really anything knew? We heard peeps about a bit of a schism before IIRC. Pollak and Kurz looked like the Toronto Sun today.