do0glas
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2012
- 13,271
- 683
Can you provide that study?
Most likely it's in an excel that can no longer be found
Hopefully someone gets my reference
Can you provide that study?
Most likely it's in an excel that can no longer be found
Hopefully someone gets my reference
Can you provide that study?
Blast from the past right there. What a bad way to provide credibility.
Blast from the past right there. What a bad way to provide credibility.
Whatever happened to SJeasy?
He'd been having medical issues for a while I know and the last I heard he was stepping back from hockey a bit (or at least HFB). Never heard anything else after that, and that was years ago IIRC. Always enjoyed his posts (even when we didn't disagree). Him and Max where the main reasons I started posting here rather than just reading occasionally.
EDIT: Just as further info, it was March of 2012 and he specifically said "I am up there in years and not in the best of health." Hopefully his health improved and he's still kicking around, just with better things to do than post here.
literally every single debate i got in with him ended like that. he would spout a fact and then cite a study that HE did that he cant show.
the guy had a lot of knowledge and i liked talking with him about individual players but larger sample size type debates were bad.
Easy is a gentleman and a scholar. You don't have to agree with him to know that. Hope he is well.
You are talking about the study that SJeasy and I did.
You are talking about the study that SJeasy and I did.
Most likely it's in an excel that can no longer be found
Hopefully someone gets my reference
Admittedly I haven't closely examined all the stats you posted, but...
Top PP? No. Our top PP is solid and it's nice to trot out a fresh Hertl for PP2.
Extra man? Sure. He certainly has more finish than Ward.
PK? No. I don't particularly like skill players killing penalties. It's exhausting and dangerous.
He's an awesome player, as your stats show, but I think he's utilized fine by "youth-hater" DeBoer. He'll continue to grow into greater roles as well.
Out of curiosity, if you don't play him on the top pp, or any PK time, what "greater roles" is he growing into in your mind. Seems like just extra attacker situations from what you said, which is hardly much growth.
Our PP IMO could need Hertl. Let's face it, Marleau is floundering to score lately, and Pavs hasn't been super sharp either.
I think removing Marleau, then using Hertl as the net front presence in place of Pavs might be beneficial to both Hertl and Pavs. Lately Pavs has been getting rocked in front of the net, and always seems to be on his ass. He's undoubtedly a good net front presence, but I think Hertl has better physical tools for the job, and has proven he's pretty great at tip/deflected goals, which is a big reason Pavs plays in front of the net a bunch.
This year 9 of Pavs 31 goals have come from tips or deflections or 29%. Hertl is 6 of 16 or 38%. Now I'm not specifically saying Hertl is better at tips, but just pointing out he's pretty good IFO the net. The next closest forward on the team is Thornton with 3 tips/deflections on 15 goals, or 20%. On the other hand Pavs has 14 of his 31 goals with wrist shots, to 5 for Hertl.
So IMO Hertl is better in front of the net, than taking wrist shots at this point, and is at least close to Pavs in ability to produce goals from tips/deflections. He is bigger, stronger, younger, and IMO faster than Pavs. These all help him better screen goalies, take punishment in front of the net, recover from the punishment, and win races to pucks to keep possession in the zone. Pavs on the other hand, has a much better wrist shot currently than Hertl, which is wasted when a lot of the PP your back is to the goalie because you're screening/waiting to tip or deflect pucks from the point. Also it allows him to play point, where if my memory serves me right, he was pretty great at in years past. He doesn't have to take as much punishment, or expend as much energy, keeping him healthier and more rested for now, and the playoffs, and allows him to use his wrister/slapper more which is better than either of Marleau or Hertl.
Out of curiosity, if you don't play him on the top pp, or any PK time, what "greater roles" is he growing into in your mind. Seems like just extra attacker situations from what you said, which is hardly much growth.
Our PP IMO could need Hertl. Let's face it, Marleau is floundering to score lately, and Pavs hasn't been super sharp either.
I think removing Marleau, then using Hertl as the net front presence in place of Pavs might be beneficial to both Hertl and Pavs. Lately Pavs has been getting rocked in front of the net, and always seems to be on his ass. He's undoubtedly a good net front presence, but I think Hertl has better physical tools for the job, and has proven he's pretty great at tip/deflected goals, which is a big reason Pavs plays in front of the net a bunch.
This year 9 of Pavs 31 goals have come from tips or deflections or 29%. Hertl is 6 of 16 or 38%. Now I'm not specifically saying Hertl is better at tips, but just pointing out he's pretty good IFO the net. The next closest forward on the team is Thornton with 3 tips/deflections on 15 goals, or 20%. On the other hand Pavs has 14 of his 31 goals with wrist shots, to 5 for Hertl.
So IMO Hertl is better in front of the net, than taking wrist shots at this point, and is at least close to Pavs in ability to produce goals from tips/deflections. He is bigger, stronger, younger, and IMO faster than Pavs. These all help him better screen goalies, take punishment in front of the net, recover from the punishment, and win races to pucks to keep possession in the zone. Pavs on the other hand, has a much better wrist shot currently than Hertl, which is wasted when a lot of the PP your back is to the goalie because you're screening/waiting to tip or deflect pucks from the point. Also it allows him to play point, where if my memory serves me right, he was pretty great at in years past. He doesn't have to take as much punishment, or expend as much energy, keeping him healthier and more rested for now, and the playoffs, and allows him to use his wrister/slapper more which is better than either of Marleau or Hertl.
@Dicdonya Hertl is clearly a much more talented player, and I'm sure as he grows, he will get more ice time.
With respect to the powerplay units, Ward isn't on the top PP unit either...they're both on the 2nd PP, and that's how it should be. That top PP unit has been together for awhile and works well.
As for the PK, Ward is a good PKer, and I don't know if throwing out a skill player like Hertl would be a great idea. With multiple other young good PKers (other than Ward and Zubrus since they're old) such as Tierney, Wingels, Karlsson, and Nieto, I don't see why Hertl needs to be used on the PK.
Also, obviously Hertl's FO% is better since he's a natural center.
I wonder what happens this offseason. I guess it depends on how we do in the playoffs. The real interesting thing is what to do with Burns. Do you try to extend him where he could easily demand 7.5+ a year or do you trade him if you get a good offer and what constitutes a good offer for a high end offensive defenseman in the final year of his contract.
I wonder what happens this offseason. I guess it depends on how we do in the playoffs. The real interesting thing is what to do with Burns. Do you try to extend him where he could easily demand 7.5+ a year or do you trade him if you get a good offer and what constitutes a good offer for a high end offensive defenseman in the final year of his contract.