Setting aside team accomplishments, is the Matthews-Marner duo better than the Kane-Toews duo?

[Brobust]

Obviously team success matters a lot, but in terms of talent and regular season impact.

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[Mickey Marner]

In the regular season, yes.

 

[TheGreatOne11]

I'd take them over any duo honestly, anyone of recent memory at least, but they need to show this magic in the playoffs to truly be the better one.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Matthews/Marner are unquestionably better, by a decent amount.

 

[tmlms13]

Assuming Matthews cleans up at the individual awards yes.

That is something Kane still has in 15-16

 

[TheGreenTBer]

lmao at "setting aside team accomplishments"

 

[Menzinger]

Yes - though the Leafs duo still have more to prove in the postseason*

*still Worth remembering here Kane/Toews didn't win those cups on their own, and we're on fairly stacked teams.

 

[Dreakmur]

Kane and Toews played on separate lines, didn't they?

 

[notdoneyet]

Yes - though the Leafs duo still have more to prove in the postseason*

*still Worth remembering here Kane/Toews didn't win those cups on their own, and we're on fairly stacked teams.

Also on a team that circumvented the salary cap

 

[Jmo89]

In the regular season, yes.

First response answers it.

If Matthews or Marner reach the level of Kane in the playoffs the Leafs likely win a cup

 

[Dekes For Days]

Kane and Toews played on separate lines, didn't they?

Kane was Toews' most common linemate every year until 2013.

 

[Puckstuff]

For regular season the leafs duo is the best. Even McDavid-Draisital aren’t even close to them at even strength. I was surprised to see both McDavid-Drai both outside the top 20 at ESP/60.

 

[Mess]

So setting aside the 3 Stanley Cups and the Conn Smythe Trophies (2010: Jonathan Toews & 2013: Patrick Kane) they won as playoff MVP's are regular season Matthews and Marner better than Toews and Kane of the past?

Being declared better regular season performers, really doesn't have a lot of value, and simply can be determined by goals and assist totals in direct comparison if one so desired.

McDavid and Draisail statistically who are #1 and #2 in league scoring >> Matthews and Marner at regular season so even if one declared Leafs duo better than Toews and Kane of old you can still find a current pairing better than them.

Similarly the Edmonton duo and Leafs duo both have limited playoff success so perhaps a better direct comparison for this experiment in this thread question to best regular season duo performances.

Johnny Gaudreau 101 points and Mathew Tkachuk 92 points also in the running with Matthews 101 points and Marner at 91 points, and Florida pairing of Heberdeau 105 points and Barkov 80 points (just 60 games) also in that conversation as well.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Setting aside accomplishments

….

Ok I’m out

 

[IPS]

So setting aside the 3 Stanley Cups and the Conn Smythe Trophies (2010: Jonathan Toews & 2013: Patrick Kane) they won as playoff MVP's are regular season Matthews and Marner better than Toews and Kane of the past?

Being declared better regular season performers, really doesn't have a lot of value, and simply can be determined by goals and assist totals in direct comparison if one so desired.

McDavid and Draisail statistically who are #1 and #2 in league scoring >> Matthews and Marner at regular season so even if one declared Leafs duo better than Toews and Kane of old you can still find a current pairing better than them.

Similarly the Edmonton duo and Leafs duo both have limited playoff success so perhaps a better direct comparison for this experiment in this thread question to best regular season duo performances.

Johnny Gaudreau 101 points and Mathew Tkachuk 92 points also in the running with Matthews 101 points and Marner at 91 points, and Florida pairing of Heberdeau 105 points and Barkov 80 points (just 60 games) also in that conversation as well.

Yes: the title says "setting aside team accomplishments". Not too hard to understand.

"

"Johnny Gaudreau 101 points and Mathew Tkachuk 92 points also in the running with Matthews 101 points and Marner at 91 points, and Florida pairing of Heberdeau 105 points and Barkov 80 points (just 60 games) also in that conversation as well."

Uhh Matthews is #2 in PPG just behind McDavid and Marner is #6, a mere .2 behind Draisaitl.

You know it's ok to like our star players right? Even tho Mitch isn't no Mathew Barzal.

 

[TMLegend]

Kane-Toews are better. It's a ridiculous premise and nothing but mental gymnastics to take away their playoff success while simultaneously giving the Leafs duo a pass on theirs.

They were already cup champs and were on their way to a 2nd cup when they were M&M's age. Meanwhile our duo can't even get out of the first round. Ridiculous.

 

[Stephen]

Team accomplishments is what made Kane and Toews special, not offensive production on the regular season.

 

[Brobust]

Yes: the title says "setting aside team accomplishments". Not too hard to understand.

"

"Johnny Gaudreau 101 points and Mathew Tkachuk 92 points also in the running with Matthews 101 points and Marner at 91 points, and Florida pairing of Heberdeau 105 points and Barkov 80 points (just 60 games) also in that conversation as well."

Uhh Matthews is #2 in PPG just behind McDavid and Marner is #6, a mere .2 behind Draisaitl.

You know it's ok to like our star players right? Even tho Mitch isn't no Mathew Barzal.

Mat Barzal? He's not even as good as Tim Schnitzel and Brady Tkachuk.

 

[Brobust]

Kane-Toews are better. It's a ridiculous premise and nothing but mental gymnastics to take away their playoff success while simultaneously giving the Leafs duo a pass on theirs.

They were already cup champs and were on their way to a 2nd cup when they were M&M's age. Meanwhile our duo can't even get out of the first round. Ridiculous.

This isn't basketball. Superstars only take a team so far.

 

[ToneDog]

Team accomplishments is what made Kane and Toews special, not offensive production on the regular season.

Kane and Toews have "kiiller instinct". Matty and Mitch still have to show they have it.

 

[Mess]

Team accomplishments is what made Kane and Toews special, not offensive production on the regular season.

That is really true in many sports where its the leaders that carry their teams to championships that are put on a pedestal for achievement.

Are Matthews and Marner better than Crosby and Malkin (in the regular season) when its really the Conn Smythe trophies that lead to Cup wins much like Kane and Toews that make them special. IMO

Once our players lead the Leafs to Cups then comparing them to other Champions makes it a more apples to apples comparison.

A player like Kucherov for example won a scoring championship and Hart and Art Ross but it was leading his team in playoff scoring towards Cups that puts him on another level.

 

[Buds17]

Can't rule it out for the regular season since Matthews and Marner are still in the process of completing career best seasons. We'll have to see how future playoff seasons play out as Matthews and Marner are quite younger than Toews and Kane.

 

[Stephen]

That is really true in many sports where its the leaders that carry their teams to championships that are put on a pedestal for achievement.

Are Matthews and Marner better than Crosby and Malkin (in the regular season) when its really the Conn Smythe trophies that lead to Cup wins much like Kane and Toews that make them special. IMO

Once our players lead the Leafs to Cups then comparing them to other Champions makes it a more apples to apples comparison.

A player like Kucherov for example won a scoring championship and Hart and Art Ross but it was leading his team in playoff scoring towards Cups that puts him on another level.

Of the 1st overall picks in the 21st century, I think Kane might be my number one for best early career arc.

 

[PromisedLand]

regular season I'd say they are about the same

playoffs on the other hand. Matthews-Marner have a lot of catching up to do

 

[Mess]

Of the 1st overall picks in the 21st century, I think Kane might be my number one for best early career arc.

Ov has like 9 seasons of 50 or more goals in the regular season, but the season he lead his team to the Cup is likely the one that solidified him as more than just a great regular season goal scorer.

Lets hope Matthews and Marner coming off great regular seasons can lead the Leafs to 3 Cups in the next 6 seasons, and then lets talk how the career arcs of our dynamic duo compares to Toews and Kane NHL careers.

The regular season is simply a means to an ultimate successful ends for players considered great. IMO

It wasn't the 127 regular season points that made Dougie Gilmour a great Leaf it was the carrying of his team to the final 4 in back to back seasons in the 1990's that solidified him among the best.