Seth Jones next contract

[NoNecksCurse]

I'm with the idea of moving anyone above 30. give me crap all you want but we have piddled away the prime years of a generational type talent in weber and a top 3 goalie in rinne. who knows how much rinne has left and weber is still producing but it's hard to say how much longer he can keep up his top 10 seasons by defenseman.

 

[Byrddog]

I do agree the pairing he is on, Bartley, Volchenkov, and jackman, is just a bunch of crap. Jackman is the best of the bunch, but he is what he is at this point - a slow, physical, third pairing defenseman. They are clearly holding him back.

He is playing second pairing minutes via TOI due to his special teams play.

We can't give him more than 5.5 million per year unless their is a substantial change in his play ROS and in the playoffs or a non-bridge contract and a significant upturn in opportunity with success ROS. If he continues to play in the role he is in now, I can't see him cashing in on this negotiation.

Enoch put yourself in his shoes his ELC was $3.225 granted he did not receive the max amount of bonus but that's what he signed. Then consider Hamilton got 5.25ish last year and a whole bunch got 4 mil after the ELC that are not close to having the ceiling we think he has or what he thinks he has. The whole thing is we have not provided the chance for him to prove himself in the top 4. Minutes be damned he and his linemate have not had the difficult minutes. But he can say he has played over 20 minutes in the negoations which is the truth and only supports his wanting more. He will point out that he has played and qb the PP and plays on the PK. You would want to make more than last years guys record salary bump too, so would I and I would use those very facts to support it.

Saying that we both know realistically he should be paid 3.5 to 3.75 not 4 because Josi makes that. But for a top 5 pick that came right to the league even with his warts someone will take a chance on him. We have taken bigger chances in the past on this team. Arnott for one who was a 2C in Dallas was paid 1C money to come here and earned it until the last year or so. Karyia Poile took a chance on him and we were sitting at centennial when he hit the ice just hoping that the knee was repaired it was and it was a steal for Poile to take that chance. Ribs well it worked well last year but only so-so this season.

I am torn on what to do about Jones I think he will be a top pair type guy but will he wait until Weber retires or moves down here??? If Poile is forced to go the bridge route and Jones is not offer sheeted we then have another Suter situation or Jones demanding real money bigger than Webers cap hit for him to stay.

The only logical thing I can see out of it is Poile has 4 guys signed long term that are playing top 4 now and the Jones situation. If he can't gain an acceptable deal he can be traded. The fear is you force the bridge and he walks after and again the team loses a player and gets no asset's.

 

[Byrddog]

Glenn im not gonna copy you post but I agree with what you say. With the exception of Smith. I don't like the guy I feel he is inferior to top 6 guys in the league and that has been what fueled my displeasure with him all along. Poile paid for potential last summer and he and Wilson WHO WAS A FAV OF MINE HAS SHAT THE BED. Keeping him at 4 mil for 4 more years on the 3rd line, the idea sours my stomach. Im sick of Poile overpaying mediocre players. Many ***** about Gooses overpayment but until this year he did the job for the role he was in. Did Poile overpay yep but at least Goose until recently did the job. If a player does the job he was signed for then I can't fault them for the money the GM throws at them.

What you describe about the rebuild is the only real logical way Poile gets out of this tailspin. If he makes the decision to stay the course and signs Jones His hands are tied and he has little ability to improve the team. The first casualty in that case is Neal whos gonna be due a new contract after next season. If Poile could meet the terms of what Neal will want would he re-sign? Well if this team has the same make-up as right now I doubt it.

Like you I look more into the future than most. Honestly I think this team is about at the bottom now so selling off Weber, Rinne, and the rest of the forwards not named Forsberg and Neal would be a option I would take. I would Keep Josi, Ellis, Ekholm Jones on that side of the ice. Sell off the rest besides Weber and Rinne who I would move at the Draft. The would maximize the return in picks and prospects might even get a top 6 wing in a Weber trade. But to think single minded that we move a player picks for RyJo or RNH and that will magically fix this is just wrong. All it would do is further delay what needs to happen.

 

[preds1]

I'd rather give the money to Forsberg, not Jones....if it came down to it.
I've been wrong before, but I believe he could work his magic whether he was on the 1st or 4th line.

Jones, however, appears to need better players around him.
Jackman is the safety net to allow him to jump into the play and be creative. (Like a lesser Josi)
So far, I'm not seeing much of it. Decent defensively tho, no doubt. He's a luxury, and hope he continues to develop.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I'm hoping Seth Jones next contract is with another team. So it won't be our problem

 

[Drake744]

I'm hoping Seth Jones next contract is with another team. So it won't be our problem

I said the same thing about Suter back in the day also. Fortunately I'm not a scout. If Jones is anything other than a total bust, he's worth having unless we're getting a prime return for him.

I'd rather give the money to Forsberg, not Jones....if it came down to it.
I've been wrong before, but I believe he could work his magic whether he was on the 1st or 4th line.

Jones, however, appears to need better players around him.
Jackman is the safety net to allow him to jump into the play and be creative. (Like a lesser Josi)
So far, I'm not seeing much of it. Decent defensively tho, no doubt. He's a luxury, and hope he continues to develop.

It's hard to develop into much on a third pairing, or with a third pairing partner anyway. His offensive instincts need to progress though and catch up with his physical tools. Whether it's because of who he plays with or just other intangibles he doesn't have yet, I don't know, but I have also been disappointed with his relatively low offensive production so far. On the flip side though he's been better defensively than I had anticipated so I can't complain too much I suppose.

 

[Enoch]

Shea Weber is a hall of famer in his prime. Let's hold onto him. Right? He is a great player, a true superstar, and we developed him. Keep him.

 

[glenngineer]

Glenn im not gonna copy you post but I agree with what you say. With the exception of Smith. I don't like the guy I feel he is inferior to top 6 guys in the league and that has been what fueled my displeasure with him all along. Poile paid for potential last summer and he and Wilson WHO WAS A FAV OF MINE HAS SHAT THE BED. Keeping him at 4 mil for 4 more years on the 3rd line, the idea sours my stomach. Im sick of Poile overpaying mediocre players. Many ***** about Gooses overpayment but until this year he did the job for the role he was in. Did Poile overpay yep but at least Goose until recently did the job. If a player does the job he was signed for then I can't fault them for the money the GM throws at them.

What you describe about the rebuild is the only real logical way Poile gets out of this tailspin. If he makes the decision to stay the course and signs Jones His hands are tied and he has little ability to improve the team. The first casualty in that case is Neal whos gonna be due a new contract after next season. If Poile could meet the terms of what Neal will want would he re-sign? Well if this team has the same make-up as right now I doubt it.

Like you I look more into the future than most. Honestly I think this team is about at the bottom now so selling off Weber, Rinne, and the rest of the forwards not named Forsberg and Neal would be a option I would take. I would Keep Josi, Ellis, Ekholm Jones on that side of the ice. Sell off the rest besides Weber and Rinne who I would move at the Draft. The would maximize the return in picks and prospects might even get a top 6 wing in a Weber trade. But to think single minded that we move a player picks for RyJo or RNH and that will magically fix this is just wrong. All it would do is further delay what needs to happen.

Let me throw one thing to you if we do what I proposed, yes Wilson and Smith would be making way too much for third line guys but some of the talent up front, Fiala and Vesey would still be on ELC's so it would balance out and when they are due raises, Wilson and Smith will be coming off the books.

 

[Byrddog]

Let me throw one thing to you if we do what I proposed, yes Wilson and Smith would be making way too much for third line guys but some of the talent up front, Fiala and Vesey would still be on ELC's so it would balance out and when they are due raises, Wilson and Smith will be coming off the books.

You make a good point about Wilsons and Smiths contracts. For a couple reasons they will need a few contracts to make the floor and Wilson inparticular has come thru this system. The floor may correct itself if Weber or Rinne are unmovable. Rinnes 7 mil could prove to be unmovable if he can't turn around. If the owners feel Weber is unmovable due to the investment or the recapture risk, which would hamper a full rebuild. If Rinne can't be moved the Weber must be even with the risk. Then there is no salvage of either Wilson or Smith. Both of which are like Jones needing to be with additional talent for them to be effective. I would expect Jones eventually will break out of this if not there is trouble but Wilson and Smith have shown dependency issues. Smiths drug of choice last year Oddly was Cullen then Fish for the two periods he was productive. You can't rebuild unless you move players for picks and prospects.

Funny you still have hope for Vesey I did at camp but when his pappy was hired by the Leafs my hope for him vanished. If he does indeed commit to the Preds I will be pleased and a little surprised. It would sure give us a boost feeling he should be able to step to the top 6 sooner than later, Fiala needs to mature if it takes two years in Milwaukee so be it they guy has the skill set to be a good top 6 guy but he is not OV talented where he can just take over the team and cost coaches there jobs like OV did twice. Kamenev is still a question for me but if he is that 2C that someone said it would be a help. Other than those three there is not much in the pipeline and if one of the three in fact makes it to top 6 production here we will be fortunate. Neal is a wildcard will he wait to rebuild or move on after his contract expires?? If the team is the 85 to 90 point team next year with no changes hes gone IMO. If GM and the owners convince him he is part of the leadership bunch going forward thru the rebuild and lay out the plan to him he might stay. One thing that must stop is drafting centers or bringing them in to Band-Aid the 1C spot. If your gonna rebuild be damn sure you get that piece. Do not make a decision that Kamenev is that 1C and when he falls short have no plan.

All of that take some great scouting to identify players for spots. Not draft the BPA reguardless of need. If you have Jones available at 4 but he is not a current need of the team you take that offer from Calgary for pick 5 plus 18 to move up they pick Jones and you take Monohan +. Unless GM can make that call he needs to be replaced. As rare as this team has been able to pick top 10 you can not make those mistakes. The Watson and Wilson picks are particular failures for the scouting team unless Poile went off script for those picks. Who would have thought Dale Tallon would pass on Jones for Barkov not many for sure but he drafted to the need during the rebuild and then drafted what I think is going to be the best defenseman in the league for a long time in Ekblad. He had the need for both no doubt and it took a air the size of King Kong to pass on Jones for a center who has his own warts(injury magnet) but right now it looks to have been the right decision.

Is there risk you bet but doing nothing is not an option at this point. The last 65 games across two regular seasons if more than enough time to shake out of a slump. It indicates the flaw in the make-up of the roster. Some continue to deny this and others want to point fingers at individuals and hope for a miracle turnaround. The team can on some night be competitive with bubble teams but run into a good team there totally outclassed. Now one might think well how about the Habs game, well how about them Habs without Carey Price. That team is similar to us unless Price is there hitting on all 8 they have issues. There roster is not as bad in the forward area but the D is a couple steps behind what we have. Unless you can ice an offense like Dallas who really could care less if you score 3 or 4 on them because they can step up and score 6 or 7 when they need to. The last critical date for the season I seen now the end of Jan. with only 3 home games this month this could be the last flameout for the year.

 

[jwhouk]

...will be dealt with by the Columbus Blue Jackets.

 

[PredsHabs]

I'm hoping Seth Jones next contract is with another team. So it won't be our problem

Nailed it!