Serious question via former Leaf greats in the organization?

[Stephen]

Also Carlyle and Wilson were both ex-Leafs, Eakins was an ex-Leaf, so was St-Croix, Palmateer and Armstrong are still scouts. Doesn't mean much.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

You think that's what ails them?

Uh... yes? Kevin Lowe and his cups have been running that team into the ground for over a decade.

The Leafs should just hire the best person for the job and not perpetuate the old boys club that plagues so much of NHL management. If they want to put in the effort to develop management/coaching talent like Detroit and others do, that's fine, but the primary hiring criterion shouldn't be "fan favourite ex-Leaf". If the best talent happens to be an ex-Leaf who is super motivated to keep working for the team, that's fine too, but not very likely.

 

[SourGrapes]

Why do you want inexperienced former players in powerful positions? I'm all for appointing former players with managerial experience to said roles, but I'd rather not hire Gilmour or Clark (like Vancouver with Linden) just because he's revered amongst Leaf fans.

 

[skeddie]

Who cares? I don't care what team he played for. I want the best guy available.

Also how many big time Leafs are currently working as a GM/President?

This. would be nice to see Gilmour make a sucessful jump though.

 

[Northern Dancer]

Big fan of Shanny as a player and a decision maker with MLSE. Not so much in his previous role.
What bugs me is that no former Leaf has any meaningful role within the organization. They all have seemingly distanced themselves intentionally from the Leafs brand. This isn't a new phenomenon. Ken Dryden, former president of the club, was a hated rival due to his star status as a former Hab.
VAN has Linden, PHI has Hextall, PITT has Mario, COL has Sakic and Roy, and Im sure there are tons more examples.
None of Wendel,Gilmour, Sundin, Sittler, MacDonald, Vaive,Potvin, Joseph, Belfour, Salming, Keon, Roberts, or any other former Leaf plays any major role. What does that tell you about how they view the relationship between management and players past and present?

Absolutely nothing. Silly thread.

 

[rojac]

This. would be nice to see Gilmour make a sucessful jump though.

Is there any indication that Gilmour is any good at the job of GM? A candidate's qualifications should be more important than the team he played for.

 

[Super Mega]

I think its a fallacy that an ex-leaf brings something extra to the table because hes an ex-leaf. Its just good optics.

 

[indigobuffalo]

We should have our coach be a former Norris winning Leafs Defenceman...

Or something...

 

[hockeyfanz*]

That's true technically but how many of them were career Leafs or are even regarded as great hockey minds? What are we losing not having Gilmour in the organization? On the flip side, what does it say about Detroit that Yzerman is running the show in Tampa Bay?

Absolutely nothing. I don't recall hearing that Gilmour was some kind of hockey executive genius. I don't really care what dougie or wendel or mats are doing with their retired lives. They put in their times as players.

The Leafs should be hiring brilliant hockey minds who can win this fanbase a Stanley Cup. Not hiring guys because they are sentimental favorites.

 

[Sundinisagod]

I'm glad to see us breaking away from the 'old boys club' mentality.

 

[TOGuy14]

Big fan of Shanny as a player and a decision maker with MLSE. Not so much in his previous role.
What bugs me is that no former Leaf has any meaningful role within the organization. They all have seemingly distanced themselves intentionally from the Leafs brand. This isn't a new phenomenon. Ken Dryden, former president of the club, was a hated rival due to his star status as a former Hab.
VAN has Linden, PHI has Hextall, PITT has Mario, COL has Sakic and Roy, and Im sure there are tons more examples.
None of Wendel,Gilmour, Sundin, Sittler, MacDonald, Vaive,Potvin, Joseph, Belfour, Salming, Keon, Roberts, or any other former Leaf plays any major role. What does that tell you about how they view the relationship between management and players past and present?

Just because someone was a former player (or star) doesn't mean they would be successful in a management or executive capacity.

Look at Jordan in the NBA as a player / GM.

Look at Gretzky in Arizona.

I want successful hockey minds, not necessarily past hockey players just for the sake of it.

 

[1UP]

As a Habs fan, I think it's a good thing.

When Serge Savard was asked by Molson to find a new GM, he took the bold, but excellent decision to NOT go for the old boys club, but to look elsewhere, especially at winning organisations.

He ended up bringing Bergevin from the Blackhawks, who then created his team from highly respected people plucked from the entire league, including your very own Rick Dudley. Very few were Ex-Habs, except Asst. Coach Jean-Jacques Daigneault, and Player development coach Patrice Brisebois - both cup winners with the Habs in 93.

The goal was to get people that knew how to win to an organisation that was okay, but nowhere close to winning anything. I think the Leafs could very well use the same line of thinking. Old boys clubs don't really work right now.

 

[zoA]

This is such a dead-of-the-summer thread... Firstly, fix your damn title, "via" doesn't work. Secondly, as NUMEROUS others have pointed out, you're reaching to an asinine level with this question. Many Leaf players have worked for the Leafs in some form, and many still do. That said, many Leaf players have not worked for the Leafs in some form, and never will. It literally changes nothing...

Personally, I rather search for bright hockey minds (Dubas, Shanahan...etc), instead of handing out some sort of entitlement package to retired players just because they played for the Leafs.

 

[Durkin67]

Some obvious comprehension issues here it appears...again, I am in favour of the shanny appointment. Anyone assuming that I suggest an in house appointment as opposed to Shhanny mis read my post. Thete is a not so subtle disdain for Toronto that I believe permeates the entire league to a degree and anyone who has spoken to any former players about this would likely concur. That no former marquee maple leaf represents the organization that calls itself the centre of the hockey universe is something of an indictment of this organization in my opinion. Not one notable former leaf has been groomed for any meaningful position at MLSE. That isn't indicative anything to you? Really...

 

[Joey Hoser]

What are we losing not having Gilmour in the organization?

Nostalgia from our glorious conference final appearance.

 

[Durkin67]

This is such a dead-of-the-summer thread... Firstly, fix your damn title, "via" doesn't work. Secondly, as NUMEROUS others have pointed out, you're reaching to an asinine level with this question. Many Leaf players have worked for the Leafs in some form, and many still do. That said, many Leaf players have not worked for the Leafs in some form, and never will. It literally changes nothing...

Personally, I rather search for bright hockey minds (Dubas, Shanahan...etc), instead of handing out some sort of entitlement package to retired players just because they played for the Leafs.

Wow, such vitriol...such righteous indignation. Really sorry to have made you so full of bitter rage... p.s. I live in Africa. Its always summer here.
P.s.s. I concur re the title...it isn't mine. It was modified by someone with administrative privileges
Talk to jesus or maybe get some rest. Try not to be so angry.

 

[zoA]

Some obvious comprehension issues here it appears...again, I am in favour of the shanny appointment. Anyone assuming that I suggest an in house appointment as opposed to Shhanny mis read my post. Thete is a not so subtle disdain for Toronto that I believe permeates the entire league to a degree and anyone who has spoken to any former players about this would likely concur. That no former marquee maple leaf represents the organization that calls itself the centre of the hockey universe is something of an indictment of this organization in my opinion. Not one notable former leaf has been groomed for any meaningful position at MLSE. That isn't indicative anything to you? Really...

You can't throw out statements of comprehension if you've missed the defining statement/question people have replied to this thread with: what exactly does being a "notable former leaf" change for an executive? A bright hockey mind is a bright hockey mind. What team that mind played for has absolutely no bearing on success, nor is it "indicative" of anything... Like, it literally means nothing. There is no correlation here, it's just happenstance.

 

[Durkin67]

You can't throw out statements of comprehension if you've missed the defining statement/question people have replied to this thread with: what exactly does being a "notable former leaf" change for an executive? A bright hockey mind is a bright hockey mind. What team that mind played for has absolutely no bearing on success, nor is it "indicative" of anything... Like, it literally means nothing. There is no correlation here, it's just happenstance.

Disagree respectfully. The mistaken conclusion that everyone seems to be coming to is that I am suggesting an entitlement package based on former glories. Not my point at all but its clear that this conversation has become a lot like trying to pick up a turd from the clean end. Lets talk about how bad a coach Carlyle is...because we dont see enough of those nuggets of unabashed insight...

 

[Daisy Jane]

You think that's what ails them?

one could argue that it's not helping them. there's a big theory among a lot of people in the media (so salt and teaspoons) that since a lot of the management was part of the glory years, - they think that's how they have to build the team.... which is not how hockey is played now (and it influenced their drafting decisions)

+ that's how the owner feels too.. soo...

Shanahan comes from an organization who mentored and showed its players how a good ownership/ management runs a successful hockey club. The Leafs have had nobody in ownership let alone management who could do that in the modern era. Fletcher started off well, but there was no patience in the organization. Dryden had the right motivation and passion, but didn't have the horses on his team. They got rid of Quinn who would have been nice to have around still in some mentoring capacity.

Let's hope Shanahan becomes our Holland and we see this franchise right itself for the long term, not just 3-4 year segments of half hearted rebuilding or retooling. But it all starts with the top, and maybe one day we will have a JVR, or a Rielly mentored and running the show in 20 years.

Besides, Shanahan is a local product at least, he knows the passion of this market.

I agree. it was in his presser - he never became a Leaf (because everytime he was available, he and the Leafs were on different paths etc), but he always kept tabs on him because he was a Leafs fan. I'd rather a great hockey mind vs. Oh Mats is here and he played here, and as well as Stephen said

On the flip side, what does it say about Detroit that Yzerman is running the show in Tampa Bay?

but Draper is there and I think i remember reading Lidstorm has a ready made job for him should he want it.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Foligno. Adams, Andreychuk, Thomas, Gilmour, Niewendyk, Roberts, Muller. Eight one time Leafs, seven of whom have held positions with NHL clubs post retirement. None of them chose Toronto.

Niewedyk did work for the Leafs before becoming GM of the Stars where he wasn't a very good GM.

Carlyle also once played for us.

Leafs fan should also not forget that the Ballard era was a complete blackmark on this organization so for a long time we couldn't have had our own candidates.

Chicago Blackhawks have zero former great in prominent roles well the Oilers have been plagued by the mismanagement of a former great in Kevin Lowe. Having a former great means nothing to the potential success of a team.

 

[Swervin81]

The last thing we need is an old boys club. Just makes things even worse. Look at the Oilers. They have an old boys club spearheaded by Kevin Lowe, trickling down to Craig MacTavish and Dave Semenko. Oh, not to mention the rumors of Glenn Anderson as head coach until they got Eakins from us. And how has that worked out for them?

 

[Frelimo]

That's true technically but how many of them were career Leafs or are even regarded as great hockey minds? What are we losing not having Gilmour in the organization? On the flip side, what does it say about Detroit that Yzerman is running the show in Tampa Bay?

Or that Shanny is running the show in Toronto?


This thread wreaks of strawman

 

[ACC1224]

Silly thread, make an awesome Blog though.

 

[Durkin67]

Daisy I will see your Kevin Lowe and raise you one Glen Sather...
Whats killing EDM is years of being stuck with bad contracts to Horcoff,Hemsky and Gagner, no goaltending, no veteran leadership and no defense. I know you're not going to try to argue these blunders were part of Lowe's old school blueprint... Re the media and their bad drafting theory, we are talking about a team which draws lottery picks annually. Without defaulting to hindsight, in which year did they not draft the player that was unanimously considered the best player available?

 

[TheCLAM]

Im not disputing Shannys' merits and Im thrilled with the hire.
re former Leafs, I am illuminating the fact that no former Leaf has been groomed for this kind of role, and despite Shannys' charisma and his reputation, hes never run a pro hockey club either. Dubas has far more exoerience than Shanny at this level.
Youve kinda missed the point...

Why does the hire have to come within? Your point isn't exactly valid considering Ron Hextall was groomed by the Kings and later became the GM of the Flyers.

The Leafs by character grooming a back-yard Ontario kid, Kyle Dubas, to become a possible candidate as a GM for the Leafs. This thread is irrelevant as each player after their career doesn't necessarily decide management is the new career direction.

Shanny was the Director of Player Safety, many notable GM's have gotten their start in this exact same position. Sakic by the same definition can be put in the same category as a Shanahan when it comes to scrutinizing experience.

Where are you going with this? Your critical point seems to be clouded..