Pre-Game Talk: SENS take a bite out of the big Apple, Sunday 7:00 pm on SN

[aragorn]

How about that... Burrows was nowhere near the top 6, played on the 2nd PP unit, had the 3rd least amount of ice time and wasn't on the ice for a single goal again.

Perception & reality are so often blurred on here but looking at this the mix seems to be just about what we would or should expect from each player. So if it's not player deployment than what else could it be if not better goaltending or making the key stop when required & not making bone head plays at the wrong time. I think the team as a whole has enough talent & skill but could always use a little more but it's the goaltending that needs to improve for this team to get back into the playoff picture. Better goaltending = more wins = playoffs, the rest should balance out including hopefully the PP.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Sweet so even Boucher who fetishizes veteran forwards thinks Burrows is a 4th liner. Glad we're paying him so much money and gave away a top prospect for him. Glad the guy who made that deal is making massive trades and has huge decisions and contracts coming up. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[BatherSeason]

How about that... Burrows was nowhere near the top 6, played on the 2nd PP unit, had the 3rd least amount of ice time and wasn't on the ice for a single goal again.

Are you defending Burrows? Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, please elaborate.

 

[swiftwin]

Sweet so even Boucher who fetishizes veteran forwards thinks Burrows is a 4th liner. Glad we're paying him so much money and gave away a top prospect for him. Glad the guy who made that deal is making massive trades and has huge decisions and contracts coming up. What could possibly go wrong?

"Top" Prospect... ok bud...

 

[swiftwin]

Are you defending Burrows? Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here, please elaborate.

Earlier in this thread, people were having an aneurysm over the fact that Burrows was playing in the top 6, playing top PP minutes and singlehandedly making us lose games.

 

[BatherSeason]

Earlier in this thread, people were having an aneurysm over the fact that Burrows was playing in the top 6, playing top PP minutes and singlehandedly making us lose games.

He is not singlehandedly making us lose games, but he is definitely not helping us win games. I don't think PD is getting hugs, high fives and cart wheels over Burrows now and the contract extension is looking like a really bad move right now too. Not too expensive, but we now have a bad player blocking better players from having a spot in the lineup.

 

[Sensung]

Hoffman needs to play top minutes with top players.

 

[Micklebot]

Sweet so even Boucher who fetishizes veteran forwards thinks Burrows is a 4th liner. Glad we're paying him so much money and gave away a top prospect for him. Glad the guy who made that deal is making massive trades and has huge decisions and contracts coming up. What could possibly go wrong?

Technically, he spent more time playing with our top 9 centers (3:41) than he did with out 4th line center (2:57), though some of that was overlapping so the numbers are off a touch. I think Boucher sees him as a utility player that can be used anywhere in the lineup (similar to Pyatt but in a different way).

 

[Sensinitis]

Looks like the Big Apple ended up taking a bite out of the Sens.

...amirite?

 

[Alex1234]

Hoffman needs to play top minutes with top players.

This

Just put your 6 best players together and roll with that
They'll figure it out
If they spends mucho time together they will
Thats what happened at the end of last year
Also Karl needs to heal and be better

And




Goalies need to be a lot better


GO SENS GO

 

[Boud]

Hoffman needs to play top minutes with top players.

I honestly don't think he's played very well with either Duchene or Brassard

 

[Sensung]

I honestly don't think he's played very well with either Duchene or Brassard

Not sure we have an appropriate sample size for Brassard and we are no where close with Duchene.

Give him 20 straight games with one of the 2 and then make a decision.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Not sure we have an appropriate sample size for Brassard and we are no where close with Duchene.

Give him 20 straight games with one of the 2 and then make a decision.

Agree but has anybody on our team played with anyone else consistently for more than 20 minutes?

 

[Xspyrit]

Sweet so even Boucher who fetishizes veteran forwards thinks Burrows is a 4th liner. Glad we're paying him so much money and gave away a top prospect for him. Glad the guy who made that deal is making massive trades and has huge decisions and contracts coming up. What could possibly go wrong?

I didn't like the deal like 99% of HF Sens and Alex might be a bit overpaid but I don't think it's necessary to harp so much on it and repeating it like 100 times every thread lmao.

Players like Trevor Lewis, Antoine Roussel, Eric Fehr, Chris Kunitz make 2.0 this year so the question would be : how much is Burrows really overpaid? Also looking at guys like Blake Comeau (2.4), Michael Raffl (2.35), Dale Weise (2.35) or Shawn Matthias (2.125)

And if Jonathan Dahlen is a "top prospect", why is he still playing in Sweden 2nd tier league? He is going to be 20 y/o in 1 month

EDIT :

Burrows has 9 goals, 7 assists, 16 points in 39 games since joining the Sens (34 points pace per 82 games)

In terms of TOI/GP, he has been behind Turris/Duchene, Stone, Hoffman, Brassard, Smith, Pageau, Ryan, Pyatt, Dzingel and Thompson... So pretty much the 11th forward. Gotta love his production in relation with TOI.

Earlier in this thread, people were having an aneurysm over the fact that Burrows was playing in the top 6, playing top PP minutes and singlehandedly making us lose games.

Classic HF Sens overreaction based on non factual bias and scapegoating.

Oduya and Burrows are clearly this year biggest scapegoats.

 

[swiftwin]

Classic HF Sens overreaction based on non factual bias and scapegoating.

Oduya and Burrows are clearly this year biggest scapegoats.

No surprise that they're also the two oldest skaters on the team. This site fetishises younger players. It's ridiculous.

Looking at Sunday, Oduya was the only defenseman who wasn't scored on...

When you get shutout, you don't blame your 4th liners and your defensive defensemen. Especially when neither got scored on. They did their part. The scorers didn't.

 

[BondraTime]

And if Jonathan Dahlen is a "top prospect", why is he still playing in Sweden 2nd tier league? He is going to be 20 y/o in 1 month

I'm not going to get to into this, my thoughts on the trade are known, but this is the same league Filip Forsberg played in until he was just shy of 20. It's full of older nobodies, but the young guys that excel become great NHL players fairly often. Him playing there proves nothing about his worth as a prospect.

The reason he is there is because the Allsvenkan allows short term contracts, and the SHL does not. He is able to join the Canucks or Utica mid season, as Benning believed that Dahlen may be called to the NHL after the new year.

If he is not called to play in Utica or Vancouver before Jan 31, 2018, he will sign in the SHL for the remainder of the season.

Dahlen is heads and tails the best player in the league, what he is doing on his team right now is phenomenal.

1.	Jonathan Dahlén (F)	12	8	7	15	2	6	|
2.	Filip Hållander (F)	17	4	6	10	2	8	|
3.	Erik Karlsson (F)	19	3	7	10	4	0	|
4.	Johan Johnsson (F)	19	5	4	9	12	-2	|
5.	Jeremy Boyce (F)	19	4	5	9	4	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He has 5 more points than his next closest teammate, in 5/7 less games. He is absolutely a very good prospect.

He's not a Sen prospect anymore, so it's a moot point.

The league is not full of NHL calibre stars, but is a very good league at producing NHL talent from 17-21 year olds.

I'm not a fan of Burrows, but he's fine for his 4th line/2ndPP role. Dahlen doesn't need to e brought up in relation to Burrows now, it's over and done with.

I guess I did get into this.

 

[NyQuil]

We need to create a team board on HF for everyone the Senators have traded away.

 

[The Lewler]

We need to create a team board on HF for everyone the Senators have traded away.

Or just a thread.

The "Never-ending old trade rumination thread. Now featuring extra salty despair on all Swedish players".

 

[Fandlauer]

Every time I see Burrows I just salivate at how much of a treat it would be to watch Dahlen tear it up in Brampton. What a missed opportunity, he could have been our next Corey Locke.

 

[aragorn]

He is not singlehandedly making us lose games, but he is definitely not helping us win games. I don't think PD is getting hugs, high fives and cart wheels over Burrows now and the contract extension is looking like a really bad move right now too. Not too expensive, but we now have a bad player blocking better players from having a spot in the lineup.

At the moment almost everybody on this team are not helping us to win games & specifically the guys who are paid to do just that. But even more importantly is that Ottawa is not getting good consistent goaltending from either Anderson or Condon. It is disheartening to see that every time they lose a game the blame immediately goes to the guys who play the least amount of time. Ottawa just doesn't get the consistency from the majority of their best players with the exception of Mark Stone IMO.

 

[JD1]

I'm not going to get to into this, my thoughts on the trade are known, but this is the same league Filip Forsberg played in until he was just shy of 20. It's full of older nobodies, but the young guys that excel become great NHL players fairly often. Him playing there proves nothing about his worth as a prospect.

The reason he is there is because the Allsvenkan allows short term contracts, and the SHL does not. He is able to join the Canucks or Utica mid season, as Benning believed that Dahlen may be called to the NHL after the new year.

If he is not called to play in Utica or Vancouver before Jan 31, 2018, he will sign in the SHL for the remainder of the season.

Dahlen is heads and tails the best player in the league, what he is doing on his team right now is phenomenal.

1.	Jonathan Dahlén (F)	12	8	7	15	2	6	|
2.	Filip Hållander (F)	17	4	6	10	2	8	|
3.	Erik Karlsson (F)	19	3	7	10	4	0	|
4.	Johan Johnsson (F)	19	5	4	9	12	-2	|
5.	Jeremy Boyce (F)	19	4	5	9	4	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He has 5 more points than his next closest teammate, in 5/7 less games. He is absolutely a very good prospect.

He's not a Sen prospect anymore, so it's a moot point.

The league is not full of NHL calibre stars, but is a very good league at producing NHL talent from 17-21 year olds.

I'm not a fan of Burrows, but he's fine for his 4th line/2ndPP role. Dahlen doesn't need to e brought up in relation to Burrows now, it's over and done with.

I guess I did get into this.

do you make this stuff up as you go along? when you're doing that at least take a level of care that what you post is factually correct.

I know you're a big fan but you know.....Forsberg played in the nhl at the end of his first season after being drafted and never played in Europe again. for the record....it's really easy to look stuff like that up.

 

[BondraTime]

do you make this stuff up as you go along? when you're doing that at least take a level of care that what you post is factually correct.

I know you're a big fan but you know.....Forsberg played in the nhl at the end of his first season after being drafted and never played in Europe again. for the record....it's really easy to look stuff like that up.

Yes, my mistake, had thought Forsberg was a late birthday without looking up at work, hence me saying just prior to his 20 year old season. Can omit that part as I was wrong.

Don'y really think I ever make things up, but to each their own.

 

[JD1]

Yes, my mistake, had thought Forsberg was a late birthday without looking up at work, hence me saying just prior to his 20 year old season.

But yes, my M.O is to make things up as I go along.

Appreciate the heads up

forsberg played in the NHL at 18. the following year at 19 he played AHL and NHL.

I know you're a big fan of Dahlen and you probably have reasons for that.

IMO guys see stuff like that....Dahlen is on the same development curve as Forsberg..... and it just amps up the anti mgmt sentiment here.

 

[BondraTime]

forsberg played in the NHL at 18. the following year at 19 he played AHL and NHL.

I know you're a big fan of Dahlen and you probably have reasons for that.

IMO guys see stuff like that....Dahlen is on the same development curve as Forsberg..... and it just amps up the anti mgmt sentiment here.

Yes I know he came over after his post draft season ala Keller, I had mistakenly thought he was a late 93' rather than a 94'.

The point of my post, lost in much of the useless things I likely posted, was in response to the mention that no real prospect would be in that league at 19/20. The only reason he is there is because that league allows short term contracts, and the SHL doesn't.

I think he is a good prospect, he is a sunk cost at this point so no use pining over him.

 

[Xspyrit]

I'm not going to get to into this, my thoughts on the trade are known, but this is the same league Filip Forsberg played in until he was just shy of 20. It's full of older nobodies, but the young guys that excel become great NHL players fairly often. Him playing there proves nothing about his worth as a prospect.

The reason he is there is because the Allsvenkan allows short term contracts, and the SHL does not. He is able to join the Canucks or Utica mid season, as Benning believed that Dahlen may be called to the NHL after the new year.

If he is not called to play in Utica or Vancouver before Jan 31, 2018, he will sign in the SHL for the remainder of the season.

Dahlen is heads and tails the best player in the league, what he is doing on his team right now is phenomenal.

1.	Jonathan Dahlén (F)	12	8	7	15	2	6	|
2.	Filip Hållander (F)	17	4	6	10	2	8	|
3.	Erik Karlsson (F)	19	3	7	10	4	0	|
4.	Johan Johnsson (F)	19	5	4	9	12	-2	|
5.	Jeremy Boyce (F)	19	4	5	9	4	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He has 5 more points than his next closest teammate, in 5/7 less games. He is absolutely a very good prospect.

He's not a Sen prospect anymore, so it's a moot point.

The league is not full of NHL calibre stars, but is a very good league at producing NHL talent from 17-21 year olds.

I'm not a fan of Burrows, but he's fine for his 4th line/2ndPP role. Dahlen doesn't need to e brought up in relation to Burrows now, it's over and done with.

I guess I did get into this.

I agree with "very good prospect" but I am not sure about "top prospect" (which is why I mentioned it in my reply), I dunno if he can be categorized with players like Chabot, Brown or even White. To me he looks to be on a similar level to maybe Filip Chlapik, but not sure because Chlapik looks like a very complete player... Don't think Dahlen will be a 2-way guy like Chlapik will

And I agree that it has nothing to do with Burrows. Dorion should have found a way to keep Dahlen but it has no bearing on hating Burrows for that reason, that is not very rational

Personally I had hope that Burrows would have been acquired for the 2nd obtained for Lazar, but then we wouldn't have had the opportunity to draft Alex Formenton