Prospect Info: Sens Board Prospect Rankings 2018 (1st) READ

[Ouroboros]

Add Julius Honka.

 

[LeProspector]

Chabot, add Luchuk

 

[LeProspector]

Maybe you should wait a day or two lol.

This is what I was thinking as well, chances are we get a nice prospect(s) from a Karlsson trade.

 

[operasen]

Add Docker then Tychonick

 

[Xspyrit]

Most likely because almost no one had heard of them before the draft and JBD was drafted earlier. At this point it's all we have to base our rankings on.

After you add JBD you can add Tychonick as I suspect they will probably go one after another.

But "Typhoonick" was still expected to be an early 2nd pick, and seriously watching him play and reading his scouting reports, he has 1st round talent. He was probably not picked earlier because he has Karlsson frame when he was drafted and he played in the not well respected yet BCHL league.

2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #36 by HOCKEYPROSPECT.COM
2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #36 by FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS
2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #33 by ISS HOCKEY
2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #44 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #36 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (NA Skaters
2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #50 by TSN/McKenzie

Chabot isnt a prospect anymore

Based on what? Read disclaimer.

Interesting that one of our first round picks this year isn't on the initial list of options. I think our depth of prospects is the best it's been in a while, though I'd like to have that one more blue chipper, hopefully Batherson or somebody can solidify themselves as a can't miss guy this year.

Add Bernard-Docker

I don't know, I have this Mark Stone feeling about Batherson. However, I didn't expect Stone to be as good as he is. But I think the Drake is going to be one of my favorite players with Stone and (EK?)

This is what I was thinking as well, chances are we get a nice prospect(s) from a Karlsson trade.

If we add a prospect, we'll make a special poll to determine where he should slot on the list. If we get more prospects, we'll see but we might not be too far in the rankings yet. We don't know all long it will take for that trade to happen. We have to move on with our lives

Easily Chabot, add Luchuk

Now I'm wondering if I should add Luchuk. I mean, I would just because someone asked but I think most people think it would be too early. ErikBrannstrom also asked so I guess I'll add him but there's several prospects that should be considered before Luchuk (Gruden, Harpur, Nurmi, Perron, Gagne, Bergman, Crookshank, Paul, Lajoie, Hogberg and even Mandolese)

 

[Tkachuk27]

But "Typhoonick" was still expected to be an early 2nd pick, and seriously watching him play and reading his scouting reports, he has 1st round talent. He was probably not picked earlier because he has Karlsson frame when he was drafted and he played in the not well respected yet BCHL league.

2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #36 by HOCKEYPROSPECT.COM
2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #36 by FUTURE CONSIDERATIONS
2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #33 by ISS HOCKEY
2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #44 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #36 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (NA Skaters
2018 NHL Entry Draft: Ranked #50 by TSN/McKenzie



Based on what? Read disclaimer.


Dont care for the disclaimer the kids played played 60+ NHL games he isnt a prospect

 

[Xspyrit]

Dont care for the disclaimer the kids played played 60+ NHL games he isnt a prospect

So YOUR criteria is 60+ NHL games?

What if Paul criteria is 70 games?

What if Jean-Jacques criteria is 50 games?

ETC.

HF explains it very clearly (and anybody who has used methodology before would know) in the link I provided in the OP.

Hockey's Future is a website dedicated to prospects. To establish uniformity among all the team pages and to increase the credibility of all the articles, all players listed on HF will follow the "Prospect Rules" to help editors and writers in determining who is and isn't considered a prospect anymore. Players who no longer qualify as prospects will be removed from team lists and rankings.

If you don't establish a clear BLACK AND WHITE rule, then it's impossible to establish a consensus.

________________________

Even without those clear rules, I wouldn't agree with your statement. Chabot is a great prospect but he played more NHL games than he would have if the team didn't absolutely fell down from grace early in the season. Methot's departure left a gigantic hole in the defense and he was not replaced at all (we were hopeful that Claesson could but it was asking way too much, which is what killed him in Ottawa and now he's gone). There was also Wideman and Borowiecki injuries, which ultimately gave an opportunity to Chabot. If the defense was healthier, without a gigantic hole at #2 and the team was playing better, I doubt Chabot would have played as much, which is normal as it was his 1st pro year and his game was still very raw for this level. We haven't seen what he is going to be yet. It's not like Mark Stone who was very polished in his rookie year.

 

[OccidentalSoothsayer]

NOTE: These are general guidelines and should be followed the majority of the time but certain players may still be listed as prospects if circumstances warrant. Also, for players that are close to either the 65-game (skaters) or 45-game (goaltenders) benchmark but have also clearly "arrived" as NHL players, HF reserves the right to remove these players from consideration as prospects and instead consider these players graduated.

From your own source as to what makes a prospect.

 

[Xspyrit]

NOTE: These are general guidelines and should be followed the majority of the time but certain players may still be listed as prospects if circumstances warrant. Also, for players that are close to either the 65-game (skaters) or 45-game (goaltenders) benchmark but have also clearly "arrived" as NHL players, HF reserves the right to remove these players from consideration as prospects and instead consider these players graduated.

From your own source as to what makes a prospect.

And? The point is that it's totally subjective. Like I said in my previous post, I think (so my own subjectivity) that Chabot has not clearly "arrived". He played on the worst Sens team in the last 23 years, Borowiecki and Wideman were injured for 30 and 66 games respectively; Phaneuf got traded; Oduya was waived, Karlsson also missed 11 games and Claesson busted (Harpur too in an extent). As a result, Chabot got a lot more opportunity than he would have in a "normal" year. I love Chabot since his QMJHL days but honestly his game was still pretty raw for the pro level and it took him a while to get more "comfortable", later in a season when there was absolutely zero pressure. On a playoffs team, he probably wouldn't have played that many games and instead develop in the AHL to "professionalize" his game.


PS : Without a direct quote, I usually don't see these posts.

 

[BondraTime]

And? The point is that it's totally subjective. Like I said in my previous post, I think (so my own subjectivity) that Chabot has not clearly "arrived". He played on the worst Sens team in the last 23 years, Borowiecki and Wideman were injured for 30 and 66 games respectively; Phaneuf got traded; Oduya was waived, Karlsson also missed 11 games and Claesson busted (Harpur too in an extent). As a result, Chabot got a lot more opportunity than he would have in a "normal" year. I love Chabot since his QMJHL days but honestly his game was still pretty raw for the pro level and it took him a while to get more "comfortable", later in a season when there was absolutely zero pressure. On a playoffs team, he probably wouldn't have played that many games and instead develop in the AHL to "professionalize" his game.


PS : Without a direct quote, I usually don't see these posts.

He very clearly has, he is starting the year as either the #2 or #3 guy. Isn't really any subjectivity to it. On any other team he starts in the NHL, unfortunately Ottawa has Boucher at the helm. Very clearly an NHL player, and has been for close to 2 years

 

[Xspyrit]

He very clearly has, he is starting the year as either the #2 or #3 guy. Isn't really any subjectivity to it. On any other team he starts in the NHL, unfortunately Ottawa has Boucher at the helm. Very clearly an NHL player, and has been for close to 2 years

I disagree and again your opinion and my opinion are entirely subjective. We might think that "Chabot has clearly arrived" because the defense was in a really bad shape last year and even more so now...

Karlsson : Clear #1 but was sub-par defensively last year (after a major surgery). Could be traded soon.

Methot : lost him in the expansion draft 1 year ago. Asked Claesson to replace him, and it failed

Phaneuf : declining due to age and speed. Traded as a cap dump.

Ceci : 2-way #4 played as a shutdown #2. Put in a position to fail.

Wideman : missed most of the season. Shouldn't be played more than a #5-6

Borowiecki : Depth D-man, got injured and shouldn't play more than a #6-7 anyway

Harpur : still a prospect, even though he has 52 GP in 3 different season, has not clearly arrived. A #6-7 for now

Without Karlsson, you basically have a #4, a #5-6, two #6-7 and Chabot.

If Karlsson is traded and we ask Chabot to be the #1, then it's another recipe for failure. Unless there's zero expectations all season but how is it possible when your own 1st round pick belongs to another team?

A player that clearly arrived IMO (again, subjective) was Mark Stone in his rookie year. He was already 22 y/o and played a pro game.

Finally, I am not sure how we can say that Chabot is very clearly a NHL player, and has been for close to 2 years when he finished his junior career just a bit over 1 year ago.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

He very clearly has, he is starting the year as either the #2 or #3 guy. Isn't really any subjectivity to it. On any other team he starts in the NHL, unfortunately Ottawa has Boucher at the helm. Very clearly an NHL player, and has been for close to 2 years

I think the only guys on ELCs who didn't attend our development camp were Wolanin, Chabot and Perron. Wolanin and Perron have both been to 3 or 4 now. Chabot is notably not there because he's obviously viewed by the organization as a full time NHL player. He will never play in the AHL again unless it's on a conditioning stint.

 

[BondraTime]

I disagree and again your opinion and my opinion are entirely subjective. We might think that "Chabot has clearly arrived" because the defense was in a really bad shape last year and even more so now...

Karlsson : Clear #1 but was sub-par defensively last year (after a major surgery). Could be traded soon.

Methot : lost him in the expansion draft 1 year ago. Asked Claesson to replace him, and it failed

Phaneuf : declining due to age and speed. Traded as a cap dump.

Ceci : 2-way #4 played as a shutdown #2. Put in a position to fail.

Wideman : missed most of the season. Shouldn't be played more than a #5-6

Borowiecki : Depth D-man, got injured and shouldn't play more than a #6-7 anyway

Harpur : still a prospect, even though he has 52 GP in 3 different season, has not clearly arrived. A #6-7 for now

Without Karlsson, you basically have a #4, a #5-6, two #6-7 and Chabot.

If Karlsson is traded and we ask Chabot to be the #1, then it's another recipe for failure. Unless there's zero expectations all season but how is it possible when your own 1st round pick belongs to another team?

A player that clearly arrived IMO (again, subjective), is Mark Stone in his rookie year. He was already 22 y/o and played a pro game.

Finally, I am not sure how we can say that Chabot is very clearly a NHL player, and has been for close to 2 years when he finished his junior career just a bit over 1 year ago.

But it's not subjective, ask any single analyst/coach/scout if Chabot is an NHL player, they will all say yes. Sure, you may not think he is, but I would certainly argue you are wrong.

52 gp over 3 seasons, while not looking very good, is very different from 63 games in your first year of your ELC while impressing at both ES and PP.

We can say this because we just watched him play at a high level (scoring at a 30+ point pace) in the NHL. He did just finish his Junior career at 19, the same year Dorion tried to get him out of his Q playoffs and Memorial Cup run to get into the lineup down the stretch and in the playoffs for the Sens. He could have played in the NHL at 19, zero doubt in my mind there. His accolades earned back that up

What does the rest of our D being garbage have to do with Chabot as an NHL player? He looked better than all these guys for a reason...that being that he is an actual talented NHL defender.

Chabot was already told to get a place in Ottawa, and is being plastered around on advertising for the Sens. It's obvious management doesn't see him as a prospect, as subjectively as you'd like to think it is.

 

[Micklebot]

Bit late to be arguing over including Chabot or not. Doesn't really matter on the greater scheme just ignore him in the list if you feel he shouldn't be included.

 

[Xspyrit]

But it's not subjective, ask any single analyst/coach/scout if Chabot is an NHL player, they will all say yes. Sure, you may not think he is, but I would certainly argue you are wrong.

52 gp over 3 seasons, while not looking very good, is very different from 63 games in your first year of your ELC while impressing at both ES and PP.

We can say this because we just watched him play at a high level (scoring at a 30+ point pace) in the NHL. He did just finish his Junior career at 19, the same year Dorion tried to get him out of his Q playoffs and Memorial Cup run to get into the lineup down the stretch and in the playoffs for the Sens. He could have played in the NHL at 19, zero doubt in my mind there. His accolades earned back that up

What does the rest of our D being garbage have to do with Chabot as an NHL player? He looked better than all these guys for a reason...that being that he is an actual talented NHL defender.

Chabot was already told to get a place in Ottawa, and is being plastered around on advertising for the Sens. It's obvious management doesn't see him as a prospect, as subjectively as you'd like to think it is.

Where did I say that Chabot won't be a full NHL player next year? Obviously, we are talking about last year... The prospects ranking are made based on what happened last year (and development camp), impossible to consider next season as a lot will change and nobody knows the future.

If I believe that Christian Wolanin will be a full time NHL player next season, then why include him in the polls? Why include Nick Paul in the polls? Why include Colin White in the polls? Why include Ben Harpur in the polls? Even Chlapik.

The main point again, is you cannot let subjectivity decide what will be your methodology, pretty basic research stuff.

Ben Harpur has played 52 games in 3 different years and has a 1-way for the next 2 seasons. He is "clearly" a NHL player in the future, even if he never become more than a 6th or 7th D-man, or even just a cup-of-coffee player. That's why Chabot is ranked #1 and Harpur won't probably make the top-15.

High level or not, you said "he has clearly been a NHL player for 2 years" when he only has played 1 year at the pro level. Sorry if it doesn't compute to me. It's like saying Dahlin has been a NHL player for 2 years because he had the ability.

Bit late to be arguing over including Chabot or not. Doesn't really matter on the greater scheme just ignore him in the list if you feel he shouldn't be included.

Or that. Exactly why I had this in the 1st poll disclaimer. If you really can't accept to see Chabot in there, just remove him from your list. Very simple.

 

[BondraTime]

Where did I say that Chabot won't be a full NHL player next year? Obviously, we are talking about last year... The prospects ranking are made based on what happened last year (and development camp), impossible to consider next season as a lot will change and nobody knows the future.

If I believe that Christian Wolanin will be a full time NHL player next season, then why include him in the polls? Why include Nick Paul in the polls? Why include Colin White in the polls? Why include Ben Harpur in the polls? Even Chlapik.

The main point again, is you cannot let subjectivity decide what will be your methodology, pretty basic research stuff.

Ben Harpur has played 52 games in 3 different years and has a 1-way for the next 2 seasons. He is "clearly" a NHL player in the future, even if he never become more than a 6th or 7th D-man, or even just a cup-of-coffee player. That's why Chabot is ranked #1 and Harpur won't probably make the top-15.

High level or not, you said "he has clearly been a NHL player for 2 years" when he only has played 1 year at the pro level. Sorry if it doesn't compute to me. It's like saying Dahlin has been a NHL player for 2 years because he had the ability.



Or that. Exactly why I had this in the 1st poll disclaimer. If you really can't accept to see Chabot in there, just remove him from your list. Very simple.

No problem, that's the case

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

If Zadina was drafted by us instead of Tkachuk, does he go ahead of Chabot?

 

[BondraTime]

If Zadina was drafted by us instead of Tkachuk, does he go ahead of Chabot?

Only guys I'd consider trading Chabot for, value wise, are Dahlin and Svechnikov. So easy no.