Post-Game Talk: Sens 4, Pens 1 - It's Only January

[SEALBound]

On the road and my internet is **** so I only caught bits and pieces but what I saw was pretty much crap.

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Kunitz-Bonino-Rust
Wilson-Cullen-Fehr

Maatta-Letang
Cole-Schultz
Warso-Daley

They need to "go back" to something that had a reasonable amount of success. Every team will have it's bumps in the roads. No reason to panic however, I do believe we need something.

 

[Tender Rip]

People keep putting Hornqvist back to Crosby's line. They haven't looked good this season. I doubt that would solve any problems and I don't think Crosby wants to play with him as well.

As I have said before to everyones dismay, if Horny isn't performing with Sid, he should be traded. There's no point in having him if he cannot be a quality compliment on the top6, and it is NEVER going to click with Geno.

So if you want a Colorado forward, maybe put Horny in there as a piece. That team needs some heart. Only, of course, we seem to need more of that also, so it is probably a good time to get Horny back up there on that first line and tell those guys toto make it work again - because it did before.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Crosby was playing at almost a goal per game pace with Hornqvist on his line. Even if they weren't exactly "clicking", in terms of Hornqvist lighting it up, whatever they were doing was working for Crosby.

Crosby looks like a different player right now with Rust on his line.

I think Hags absolutely needs a more skilled winger on the other side. Playing him with Horny isn't going to work against good defenses imo. Its like KCD was. If a team can handle Geno, they can shut that line down.

I endorse these opinions.

 

[Penske]

People keep putting Hornqvist back to Crosby's line. They haven't looked good this season. I doubt that would solve any problems and I don't think Crosby wants to play with him as well.

Them not looking good is Sid on career best pace for goals (and top 3 for points) and Hornqvist on pace for most points in his career?

They also have played well together since Hornqvist has been in Pittsburgh. Sid also won a Conn Smythe playing with Hornqvist who himself was also good in the playoff series.

That line (with Sheary) also allows our other lines to work more effectively. Now if they could replace Kunitz with a scoring winger we become even more dangerous.

 

[Tender Rip]

Them not looking good is Sid on career best pace for goals (and top 3 for points) and Hornqvist on pace for most points in his career?

They also have played well together since Hornqvist has been in Pittsburgh. Sid also won a Conn Smythe playing with Hornqvist who himself was also good in the playoff series.

That line (with Sheary) also allows our other lines to work more effectively. Now if they could replace Kunitz with a scoring winger we become even more dangerous.

Yeah, that.
Kunitz to someone for whatever.

Sheary Crosby Horny
Guentzel Malkin Rust
Hags Bones Kessel
Wilson Cullen Kuhn/Fehr

Wow, that was easy.

 

[Beauner]

huge, big, fat - to Sully. This lineup is a dumpster fire and he refuses to change the lines back to a setup that actually has looked good for an extended time.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Huge minus to this postgame thread. The defense gets beaten like a redheaded mule for two games straight, and the postgame thread is a giant argument about which fancy-ass winger JR should trade a D-man for. Really, guys?

 

[The Greatest 101]

Half of Hornqvist's production comes from PP. He has like 3 ES goals. Fehr and Kunitz have more.

Well,if he was good with Crosby, why would Sullivan move him off Crosby's line?

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Well,if he was good with Crosby, why would Sullivan move him off Crosby's line?

I don't think Crosby likes playing with slow players. Fortunately for him, all of the other slow wingers this team has bought sucked with Crosby and were better with Malkin or Staal. Horny and Sid, for some bizarre reason, actually works. That doesn't mean Sid likes it, though. I figure that he's been in Sully's ear for months about it.

In theory, Horny and Malkin should work a lot better than Horny and Sid. Malone was much better with Malkin. It's not always wise to hold your breath and wait for theory to manifest in practice, though. In theory, Communism is great.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Honestly something needs to give. If we want to sniff the 2nd round Sullivan is going to have to make changes.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Well,if he was good with Crosby, why would Sullivan move him off Crosby's line?

That's the million dollar question everyone is asking.

 

[Penske]

Half of Hornqvist's production comes from PP. He has like 3 ES goals. Fehr and Kunitz have more.

Well,if he was good with Crosby, why would Sullivan move him off Crosby's line?

That's ok. PP goals are still goals (he also plays with Sid there too). His production at even strength is still good. I'm sure his career worst S% will come back up too but he's still assisting. He brings other things to the table as well and it's not slowing down Crosby at all. Crosby's production has seemed to have slowed since Hornqvist was moved from him and vice versa.

Why would Sully do a lot of things he does? Some are just seeing what else works. Some are just mind boggling.

Sid doesn't have to have the best wingers on his line. This team needs to maximise the best top 9 we can make. Look at a Stanley cup team. Bonino got the best wingers overall but Malkin even in his injured state made his line dangerous. Same with Sid. In that 3 scoring line model one of our 3 elite forwards was getting an easy match up.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I don't think Crosby likes playing with slow players. Fortunately for him, all of the other slow wingers this team has bought sucked with Crosby and were better with Malkin or Staal. Horny and Sid, for some bizarre reason, actually works. That doesn't mean Sid likes it, though. I figure that he's been in Sully's ear for months about it.

In theory, Horny and Malkin should work a lot better than Horny and Sid. Malone was much better with Malkin. It's not always wise to hold your breath and wait for theory to manifest in practice, though. In theory, Communism is great.

Why is it whenever Sid gets a new linemate, people assume it's because Crosby has been pushing for it?

If Sid really was insistent on having fast linemates who didn't suck, and he had that much control over what the coach does, wouldn't Kessel be a mainstay on his line? Phil the Thrill is both a]fast and b]actually is good with the puck.

 

[Mattpilf]

Half of Hornqvist's production comes from PP. He has like 3 ES goals. Fehr and Kunitz have more.

Well,if he was good with Crosby, why would Sullivan move him off Crosby's line?

Because Rust was playing really well on the 3rd line and they wanted to give him some time to make that jump.

I think Sid loves working with speedy wingers. It started off pretty decent with a really fast forecheck putting pressure on the defense and Rust for some goals so it seemed good at first.


Then it's started to get stale and Rust doesn't seem to be reading Crosby better than when he started. Rust doesn't seem to be making that next step with Sid like Sheary did. There were some bright moments where the forechecking was just crazy like against Tampa on Sheary goal, but I haven't really seen the consistency like Sheary and Hornqvist.

Also Geno and the Swedes were working at first too so it didn't seem like a shuffle was needed.

 

[Clare2904]

Home now.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

I don't think Crosby likes playing with slow players. Fortunately for him, all of the other slow wingers this team has bought sucked with Crosby and were better with Malkin or Staal. Horny and Sid, for some bizarre reason, actually works. That doesn't mean Sid likes it, though. I figure that he's been in Sully's ear for months about it.

In theory, Horny and Malkin should work a lot better than Horny and Sid. Malone was much better with Malkin. It's not always wise to hold your breath and wait for theory to manifest in practice, though. In theory, Communism is great.

Malkin and Hornqvist don't mesh well together because they think and play the game differently. With Crosby, at least they both play straight line game and they create a lot of offense from the pressure below the goal line. Hornqvist is limited offensevely tho and needs to play opposite skilled winger. Thing I noticed with Hornqvist, he has problems to catch passes sometimes.
Malkin and Dupuis didn't mesh well together as well for example, because Dupuis' played that simple north-south game.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Why is it whenever Sid gets a new linemate, people assume it's because Crosby has been pushing for it?

Don't ask me about people, I don't understand them.

I can give you an answer specific to me, and that's that I don't always assume Crosby has been pushing for new linemates. I assume so this time only because it fits a pattern.

If Sid really was insistent on having fast linemates who didn't suck, and he had that much control over what the coach does, wouldn't Kessel be a mainstay on his line? Phil the Thrill is both a]fast and b]actually is good with the puck.

I have never theorized, and will never posit the second half of that statement. Are you trying to lump me in with one of those "people" you were writing about earlier? Do they think that Sid is insistent about the overall quality of his linemates?

I don't. He always seemed content playing with Kunitz and Dupuis. I anticipate that he would seem content with Sheary and Scott Wilson.

As for why Sid and Kessel haven't been tried together, I think it's largely circumstantial. Malkin tends to play better with snipers, so they tried that first. Malkin was injured, which meant that Kessel needed his own line or the Pens would be a one-line team. Kessel's line worked like magic, and they won a Cup, so Sully continues to play Kessel on his own line as part of what he seems to think is a cup-winning formula. Sid was fed up with a slow right winger, so if Sully gave him Kessel, the rest of the team might get the impression that complaining is rewarded, so that ruled out trying Sid with Kessel next.

 

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

Malkin and Hornqvist don't mesh well together because they think and play the game differently. With Crosby, at least they both play straight line game and they create a lot of offense from the pressure below the goal line. Malkin and Dupuis didn't mesh well together as well for example, because Dupuis' played that simple north-south game.

That's a nice, simple explanation, but it doesn't explain all the evidence. Malone and Staal both played well with Malkin, and they were straight line players for the most part. And Malone did not play well with Crosby. Kunitz has played well with both Crosby and Malkin at times (and the fact that he can't do so anymore is because he can't play well at all anymore). So I think that might be part of it, but there's more to it than just that.

 

[Peat]

I've taken to just shutting the game off when I see them skating like that in the 1st. I'll keep an eye on the score for a bit in case they suddenly find their mojo but some nights they just don't care and its not fun to watch. There's beginning to be quite a few of those nights now and I'm beginning to worry a little to be honest. Know they won't phone it in during play-offs but this stuff can be habit forming and we've yet to find lines that work.

Also, I don't get why Oleksy is still up. We've got at least two dmen better than him out of the team. He's the right partner for Maatta like having chilli on your fingers is the right partner for wiping your ass.

 

[zero8771]

I suppose you can say first back to back regulation loss in 90.... or you can say that wierd things happen.... such as Carey Price allowing 7 goals on 22 shots tonight.... or that it played a part that they had tough traveling after a hard one in Washington etc.

You could also look to the obvious roster problems being obvious - all addressed yesterday, and absolutely the same thing today. That part at least is fair.

Doesn't change that there is something fundamental about having been so amazingly porous away from home all season; being so weak in terms of getting back into games and instead having them end up embarrassments.

Last year there'd just be too much effort for that to happen. That's really the only thing that worries me. Most every other issue can be addressed, but guys have to really want it, and it cannot be that they only care enough to put in the effort at home. We've needed lots of third period push backs at home this season, and in front of our own fans they will themselves to compete. Away it seems there's a "why bother" sentiment, from our leaders on down.

I totally agree. But I agree with them too. Why bother. Why bother to look good away when none of your fans are there and they don't need the points. They know who they can be and they put on a show for their home fans. They just want in the playoffs healthy.

They've seen too many runs end due to health. Hockeys a rough sport, why dig in when games get tough if they don't matter

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Bottom line for me is JR's gotta pull of something significant.

That spark the roster had when all the youngin's came up from WB last season has totally fizzled out now and the D-Core as a whole just isn't up to snuff.

A small move like inserting Jake and getting the lines right, isn't gonna be enough, imo.
Roster needs a significant tweak to make a run this season.

I agree with this. I mean Kessel is wasted on bonino, kunitz is trash anywhere in the lineup, fix that this team plays better...but we need to bring in a top 6 LW if we want to be cup favourites again, IMO.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Say JR pulls something significant. Gets a Duchene or a Landy to put with Sid and Sheary.

You still will have Horny with Geno and a mess of a third line.

Landy is a LW, so our most logical top 6 would be:

Landeskog-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel

Not even Dan Sullivan could mess these lines up...right?



Argh my autocorrect..

 

[TheGoldenJet]

On the road and my internet is **** so I only caught bits and pieces but what I saw was pretty much crap.

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel
Kunitz-Bonino-Rust
Wilson-Cullen-Fehr

Maatta-Letang
Cole-Schultz
Warso-Daley

They need to "go back" to something that had a reasonable amount of success. Every team will have it's bumps in the roads. No reason to panic however, I do believe we need something.

Agree with these lines for now. Then trade Kunitz+++ for an upgrade at the TD.

 

[Tender Rip]

I totally agree. But I agree with them too. Why bother. Why bother to look good away when none of your fans are there and they don't need the points. They know who they can be and they put on a show for their home fans. They just want in the playoffs healthy.

They've seen too many runs end due to health. Hockeys a rough sport, why dig in when games get tough if they don't matter

Interesting perspective. From watching Sullivan post-game pressers, I much doubt that he is in on that though...

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

Half of Hornqvist's production comes from PP. He has like 3 ES goals. Fehr and Kunitz have more.

Well,if he was good with Crosby, why would Sullivan move him off Crosby's line?

It's clear to me that you just don't like Hornqvist.

"If" he is good with Crosby? Did you miss the last few seasons or what? It's well established at this point that they work well together.

You use Sullivan's lineup as your evidence even though Sullivan has him with Geno, which has never really worked.