HockeyWooot
Registered User
- Jan 28, 2020
- 2,347
- 1,934
Proposal: Senators shakeup
- Thread starter HockeyWooot
- Start date
Clamshells
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- Aug 11, 2009
- 2,486
- 1,306
Trading Tkachuk is the wrong play
No to the Tkachuk deal but I like the Norris, Chychrun deal, I would much prefer trading Chabot then Chychrun but I don't think Chabot with that contract is going anywhere.
NJD offered the number 2 overall pick used to select Nemec, 1 for 1 for Brady Tkachuks significantly better brother.
NJD would not be offering Nemec for the worse brother, let alone adding Meier, let alone adding more.
NJD would not be offering Nemec for the worse brother, let alone adding Meier, let alone adding more.
HockeyWooot
Registered User
- Jan 28, 2020
- 2,347
- 1,934
Yeah fair enough. I hadn’t included Tkachuk for the sake of shaking things up, rather I do wonder how many disappointing seasons before he follows his brothers footsteps requesting a trade stateside.
An elite power forward who is skilled and a physical menace is impossible to replace, but also would hold high trade value.
Of course the irony is if you change up the team to take the next step and become a playoff team, he’s EXACTLY the player you want on your side.
Also left off Batherson as I couldn’t think of a good trade partner right away, but he seems like a candidate to trade while recouping value.
HockeyWooot
Registered User
- Jan 28, 2020
- 2,347
- 1,934
I see your point , for sure, but don’t think trade values work that way.
Nemec has transitioned well to the NHL, he’s not a magic bean of a pick.
Also other than being a power forward the Tkachuk brothers aren’t the same. They’re brothers not twins.
HabsAddict
Registered User
What happened to Chabot? At one point I thought he was heading for top 10 and 80 point defenseman and now he's an 8 million 40 point player.
I wonder what Shane Pinto would cost.
I wonder what Shane Pinto would cost.
CBJ would not do the trade proposed there. Norris is a huge risk, Chychrun, as rumour would have it, didn't want to play in Columbus and with Mateychuk coming up, there is no long-term need for him. As such, trading their heart-and-soul captain, who is one of the few veterans they have, as well as one of their top prospects makes little sense, I'm afraid.
Last edited:
Petes2424
Registered User
- Aug 4, 2005
- 8,045
- 2,318
Here’s the thing. Brady may never become that scorer you depend on consistently, but he has that “it” too. You always lose trading those type of players.
They need to add players who play a significant role around him, while defining his role and holding him accountable to it, as well.. That will help him become a better, more consistent player. Unlike Calgary who had some vets to help Matthew’s game take that next step, Brady hasn’t had any of that yet. It’s definitely not too late though, and that better be the plan, or he’ll inevitably force his way out of town.
They’re more likely to move guys like Norris, Batherson and Chychrun, and make sure they get some of those “pro’s pros”, to litter throughout their lineup. Whether that’s in the trades for those guys, or signing those types of UFAs, and just cash in with picks and prospects for the players they move.
Detroit did it right this year. Took a lot of crap on this site about it, but hard to argue with the results, and how many of their young players grew as more complete players/prospects this year, by either surrounding them with very professional type players, and giving them very specific roles like Seider and Raymond, or didn’t rush them along in their development, like Edvinsson, Kasper, Danielson, etc. Keeping him in the AHL playing the role they intended to play him in the NHL, rather than just throwing him to the wolves, like other teams have done. So when they did finally bring him up, he’s one of the rare players, who slid right into a Top, “pair carrying”, Top 4 role, with a very professional player like Petry to play with.
They were able to do that, because they signed more role players last summer, but it’s the types they signed over two summers. The Compher, Copp, Petry, Maatta, Perron types. Those guys helped teach Seider and Raymond how to be really good “pro’s pros”, and held the young players accountable.. They even helped DeBrincat become a player who doesn’t cheat the game, like he would at times.
Players who play the game the right way, who never cheat the game, set great examples, and demand that same commitment from the young guys in the room. Look at what the result was for Raymond and Seider. They’ve now taken that next step, at such a young age.
That doesn’t happen without surrounding them with those “pro’s pros” Ottawa has talked about going after this summer.
Unfortunately Ottawa and Buffalo specifically, really did, just throw their young guys out there and said, figure it out, and let the results determine what roles they’d play, and what types of players they’re becoming. In all honesty, what the hell was Benson playing in the NHL for this season? It’s not that he couldn’t do it. It’s, what did he really get out of it, that’s gonna make him a more complete player at 21-22? Nothing.
You can’t just throw guys into the fire and hope they teach themselves how to be great NHL players. Buffalo could’ve facilitated a Benson trade to a team like Portland (like Detroit did with Danielson) to play with a coach who “further” develops high end players. They could’ve sent him there and said, all we want you working on this year is, A, B and C, and he would’ve been a much better player come next October. No, they nickel and dimed him on the roster, rather than adding a good, veteran role player to play with their other young players, and having him develop other parts of his game.
It ends up stunting the growth of really good, young players, if they’re not surrounded by guys who’ve been there, and know what it takes.
David Perron is a great example. He would be a great addition to the Sens this summer. A guy like Brayden McNabb added to their blue line would be a great add for like a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Trading for a Ryan Hartman, or even signing a Chandler Stephenson or Marchessault.
That’s the type of players they’re gonna add this summer. Or better add. They may not be as talented, personal ceiling wise next year, but they’ll be a better hockey team. Teaching their young core how to play the game, the right way, and putting them in positions to become top-end players. Brady, Stutzle, Greig, Pinto, Sanderson, all need to be given specific roles, and veterans surrounding them, who will help make them great players.
So if they trade a Norris, they may take some crap on this site for the perceived return value, but the results will be better on the ice.
Doesn’t have to be those guys I mentioned. Those are just the types DET added, rather than playing more kids in roles they weren’t ready for. It could be a combination of Ryan Hartman, Perron, and Brayden McNabb. Or how about signing Chandler Stephenson and Perron, and trading for McNabb?
They’re gonna go get a FEW “professional pros” this summer. Hell, they may only get picks and prospects for the 2-3 players they trade away, but if they do exactly this, they’re in the playoffs next year, and this time next year, we’re talking about what major steps those young guys took..
It’s time to stop letting the players determine what type of players and the roles they’re going play, or grow into playing. It’s time to have a specific role defined for each player, and put those young players in the best position to succeed.
The Sens mini revamp of their roster, should be the most entertaining to watch this summer. They’ve talked about doing just this, and after seeing what it did for Detroit’s young players this year, who by this time in the season, were the guys driving that ship, you can guarantee this is the plan.
Now they just have to choose the right vets to litter the roster with. It won’t be the Kubalik’s or Tarasenko’s of the world. They’ll have to spend, and maybe overpay a little, but get the right guys in there. More Claude’s obviously.
They need to add players who play a significant role around him, while defining his role and holding him accountable to it, as well.. That will help him become a better, more consistent player. Unlike Calgary who had some vets to help Matthew’s game take that next step, Brady hasn’t had any of that yet. It’s definitely not too late though, and that better be the plan, or he’ll inevitably force his way out of town.
They’re more likely to move guys like Norris, Batherson and Chychrun, and make sure they get some of those “pro’s pros”, to litter throughout their lineup. Whether that’s in the trades for those guys, or signing those types of UFAs, and just cash in with picks and prospects for the players they move.
Detroit did it right this year. Took a lot of crap on this site about it, but hard to argue with the results, and how many of their young players grew as more complete players/prospects this year, by either surrounding them with very professional type players, and giving them very specific roles like Seider and Raymond, or didn’t rush them along in their development, like Edvinsson, Kasper, Danielson, etc. Keeping him in the AHL playing the role they intended to play him in the NHL, rather than just throwing him to the wolves, like other teams have done. So when they did finally bring him up, he’s one of the rare players, who slid right into a Top, “pair carrying”, Top 4 role, with a very professional player like Petry to play with.
They were able to do that, because they signed more role players last summer, but it’s the types they signed over two summers. The Compher, Copp, Petry, Maatta, Perron types. Those guys helped teach Seider and Raymond how to be really good “pro’s pros”, and held the young players accountable.. They even helped DeBrincat become a player who doesn’t cheat the game, like he would at times.
Players who play the game the right way, who never cheat the game, set great examples, and demand that same commitment from the young guys in the room. Look at what the result was for Raymond and Seider. They’ve now taken that next step, at such a young age.
That doesn’t happen without surrounding them with those “pro’s pros” Ottawa has talked about going after this summer.
Unfortunately Ottawa and Buffalo specifically, really did, just throw their young guys out there and said, figure it out, and let the results determine what roles they’d play, and what types of players they’re becoming. In all honesty, what the hell was Benson playing in the NHL for this season? It’s not that he couldn’t do it. It’s, what did he really get out of it, that’s gonna make him a more complete player at 21-22? Nothing.
You can’t just throw guys into the fire and hope they teach themselves how to be great NHL players. Buffalo could’ve facilitated a Benson trade to a team like Portland (like Detroit did with Danielson) to play with a coach who “further” develops high end players. They could’ve sent him there and said, all we want you working on this year is, A, B and C, and he would’ve been a much better player come next October. No, they nickel and dimed him on the roster, rather than adding a good, veteran role player to play with their other young players, and having him develop other parts of his game.
It ends up stunting the growth of really good, young players, if they’re not surrounded by guys who’ve been there, and know what it takes.
David Perron is a great example. He would be a great addition to the Sens this summer. A guy like Brayden McNabb added to their blue line would be a great add for like a 2nd or 3rd round pick. Trading for a Ryan Hartman, or even signing a Chandler Stephenson or Marchessault.
That’s the type of players they’re gonna add this summer. Or better add. They may not be as talented, personal ceiling wise next year, but they’ll be a better hockey team. Teaching their young core how to play the game, the right way, and putting them in positions to become top-end players. Brady, Stutzle, Greig, Pinto, Sanderson, all need to be given specific roles, and veterans surrounding them, who will help make them great players.
So if they trade a Norris, they may take some crap on this site for the perceived return value, but the results will be better on the ice.
Doesn’t have to be those guys I mentioned. Those are just the types DET added, rather than playing more kids in roles they weren’t ready for. It could be a combination of Ryan Hartman, Perron, and Brayden McNabb. Or how about signing Chandler Stephenson and Perron, and trading for McNabb?
They’re gonna go get a FEW “professional pros” this summer. Hell, they may only get picks and prospects for the 2-3 players they trade away, but if they do exactly this, they’re in the playoffs next year, and this time next year, we’re talking about what major steps those young guys took..
It’s time to stop letting the players determine what type of players and the roles they’re going play, or grow into playing. It’s time to have a specific role defined for each player, and put those young players in the best position to succeed.
The Sens mini revamp of their roster, should be the most entertaining to watch this summer. They’ve talked about doing just this, and after seeing what it did for Detroit’s young players this year, who by this time in the season, were the guys driving that ship, you can guarantee this is the plan.
Now they just have to choose the right vets to litter the roster with. It won’t be the Kubalik’s or Tarasenko’s of the world. They’ll have to spend, and maybe overpay a little, but get the right guys in there. More Claude’s obviously.
CanadienShark
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2012
- 37,532
- 10,797
dumbdick
Galactic Defender
- May 31, 2008
- 11,336
- 3,758
I know you wrote a lot (and it's a good post), but I got stuck on this part.
Over the past two seasons, Brady has scored at the same clip or better than Eichel, Hintz, Keller and Larkin, and has outscored the following players (G/GP min 100 GP):
Miller, debrincat, barkov, kopitar, both kanes, suzuki, kadri, marner, jenner, stutzle, etc., etc., etc.
On the same measure he's also matched or outscored:
Every duck, every coyote, every blackhawk, every blue and every blue jacket, every wing and every king, every canadien, every isle, every sen, every shark, every krakhead, and every Jet.
Oh and I forgot his brother.
Brady scores, man. It's his thing.
People think his thing is just dominating physically. They're right too. That's also his thing.
So, to summarize:
Counting the past two seasons, he would be the top scorer on 13 of the 32 NHL franchises.
He's 5th in the league in hits over those two seasons. But he also drew more penalties than he took.
He's 24, almost never misses a game for injury, and is signed for 4 more seasons.
And he's a great leader who knows how to pick up his game and swing momentum in clutch situations.
This is why people keep proposing a boatload for him. And it's why the Sens will never trade him.
Last edited:
Can't see a fair market for Norris unless he comes back and plays at a high level for a continuous stretch.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Sens need more Tkachuks, not fewer
Wondercarrot
By The Power of Canadian Tire Centre
- Jul 2, 2002
- 8,152
- 3,999
Chabot has been overplayed for years and carried the entire D, he’s still a 12 goal 50pt guy (it’s literally his pace average every year). He’s really exceptional in transition, but not an elite offensive defenceman.
Still a top pairing guy but misses games every year, needs to tougher in his own end.
Shane Pinto is not for sale
No to the Tkachuk one, whatever to the 2nd one.
Exactly.
Nemec for Matthew Tkachuk was a 1 for 1 offer
So Nemec, who has since raised his stock, would not be on the table for Brady, who is worth significantly less than his 105 point brother was
Last edited:
crazy overpay may not be required but overpay, if offered -> profitable, should be considered/not rejected out of hand
goes for everybody, including Sanderson
jbeck5
Registered User
- Jan 26, 2009
- 16,309
- 3,294
A lot of what you said is true, but also sounds unappealing to a sens fan.
They do need more pros pros, and more Claude girouxs. All that is true.
But I don't like the idea of looking at Detroit for anything and don't really like the guys you mentioned as target options as much as others.
Look at the best young cores over the years and they didn't back them up with comphers and Copps. They went out and got hall of fame or big name vets to come and insulate their young stars.
For example, go look at the vets that played games for pittsburgh in Crosby's first few seasons.
It wasn't journeymen 3rd liners. They had
Gonchar
Recchi
Leclair
Palffy
Roberts
Sykora
Hossa
Satan
Guerin
Just to name a few.
You can go over the Chicago's and LAs of the world and also find big name vets
The sens can't cheap out and go after a couple journeymen 3rd liners from other teams that are wildly inconsistent year to year.
If they need to get that vet presence who's been there and done that, they need to go after guys who have played big roles on winners, not guys who were depth pieces or passengers on winners. They won't have as much as an impact on the sens top young players as they're totally different experiences with roles.
Some of the names you named are decent, but not sure if they have that big presence that the sens might need.
I guess we'll see.
After Stutzle, Batherson is your next best offensive weapon. Wouldn't make sense to trade him, unless it's an unbelievable offer. Especially with that contract.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
The problem with Ottawa is that it's hard to find some part of the game that doesn't need improvement.
So in a way, it's hard to know where to start. I'm not sure this trade offer does a lot except for clearing Norris (who few teams would take a chance on at this point anyway).
The obvious place is goaltending, where in terms of GAAA, they had 3 of the worst 6 goalies in the league. Clearly, it's not solely the issue of the netminders, and team defence does play a part, but it's still not good enough. Unfortunately, there's a lot of that going around.
On the blueline, their top 2 defencemen on paper were essentially eclipsed by a 21 year old sophomore. For the ice time and the pay that they get, Chabot and Chychrun did not live up to their billing.
On the plus side, Chychrun played a full season for the first time in his career. On the downside, he looked lost in his own zone from time to time, and both guys were prone to unnecessary gaffes. Chabot was in and out of the line-up and his level of play fluctuated dramatically as well. Not good enough for what he's being paid.
Paying a lot for 3 LD, two of whom are unreliable defensively, makes for a bit of an unbalanced defensive squad, and there's only one solid RD in Zub to go around. I might be inclined to keep Chychrun with his wicked shot over Chabot's muffin, but I suspect his contract is easier to move. Someone like DeMelo on RD would suit the remaining LD.
Up front, Stutzle was injured or played injured for a chunk of the season, Pinto missed half the season due to the gambling issue and Norris played a handful of games where he was still recovering and then was out for good with the same injury again. It was tough sledding for Ottawa's pivots this year, and that's not a good recipe for success.
Losing Tarasenko means he needs to replaced in some form or fashion, preferably by another veteran who has a little offensive pop left in them. Another veteran or two who can play on the 3rd/4th line might also be welcome.
Who the next coach is will undoubtedly also be a factor.
So in a way, it's hard to know where to start. I'm not sure this trade offer does a lot except for clearing Norris (who few teams would take a chance on at this point anyway).
The obvious place is goaltending, where in terms of GAAA, they had 3 of the worst 6 goalies in the league. Clearly, it's not solely the issue of the netminders, and team defence does play a part, but it's still not good enough. Unfortunately, there's a lot of that going around.
On the blueline, their top 2 defencemen on paper were essentially eclipsed by a 21 year old sophomore. For the ice time and the pay that they get, Chabot and Chychrun did not live up to their billing.
On the plus side, Chychrun played a full season for the first time in his career. On the downside, he looked lost in his own zone from time to time, and both guys were prone to unnecessary gaffes. Chabot was in and out of the line-up and his level of play fluctuated dramatically as well. Not good enough for what he's being paid.
Paying a lot for 3 LD, two of whom are unreliable defensively, makes for a bit of an unbalanced defensive squad, and there's only one solid RD in Zub to go around. I might be inclined to keep Chychrun with his wicked shot over Chabot's muffin, but I suspect his contract is easier to move. Someone like DeMelo on RD would suit the remaining LD.
Up front, Stutzle was injured or played injured for a chunk of the season, Pinto missed half the season due to the gambling issue and Norris played a handful of games where he was still recovering and then was out for good with the same injury again. It was tough sledding for Ottawa's pivots this year, and that's not a good recipe for success.
Losing Tarasenko means he needs to replaced in some form or fashion, preferably by another veteran who has a little offensive pop left in them. Another veteran or two who can play on the 3rd/4th line might also be welcome.
Who the next coach is will undoubtedly also be a factor.
Last edited:
As a habs fan, I would love to have him on my team. You should keep him!!
The Devilish Buffoon
🇵🇸 viva 🇵🇸 free 🇵🇸
- Dec 24, 2018
- 12,146
- 10,944
No to 1. CLB says no to 2.
Yeah, Batherson is not on the table unless for a bonafide top 4 RHD with term (aka aint happening)
It's probably not fair to either franchise, but I always put them in the same boat as Buffalo. Seem to have talent, but can't play fundamentally sound hockey consistently, and can't get out of their own way organizationally.
Hopefully the new owner figures it out this summer.
Hopefully the new owner figures it out this summer.
- Sep 1, 2010
- 9,803
- 7,678
Cant see NJD moving Nemec, even for Brady
A sturdy and skilled top pair RHD is perhaps the most desired and hard to fill NHL roster spot
Something around Meier + for Brady might satisfy NJD
but probably won't move the needle for Ottawa
i think this whole Ottawa needs a shake-up is BS anyway;
it takes a while for a team to gel, Ottawa has solid promising young core
A couple solid leader/winner type vets (a 2nd, younger Giroux type ,a better Hamonic type), to assume some of the harder minutes at times, could support the young core guys reaching their upsides sooner
A sturdy and skilled top pair RHD is perhaps the most desired and hard to fill NHL roster spot
Something around Meier + for Brady might satisfy NJD
but probably won't move the needle for Ottawa
i think this whole Ottawa needs a shake-up is BS anyway;
it takes a while for a team to gel, Ottawa has solid promising young core
A couple solid leader/winner type vets (a 2nd, younger Giroux type ,a better Hamonic type), to assume some of the harder minutes at times, could support the young core guys reaching their upsides sooner
Ad
Latest posts
-
Player Discussion Sheldon Keefe - All encompassing galaxy brain discussion
- Latest: TheTotalPackage
-
