Second Assists and Plus-Minus.

[morehockeystats]

Torey Krug, 5 secondary assists (3 EV A), +- of -1 in a 7-2 win. A fun story of the "power" of the secondary assist and of Plus-Minus too.

Montréal Canadiens - St. Louis Blues - Feb 11, 2024 | NHL.com

NHL Gamecenter - Montréal Canadiens vs. St. Louis Blues, Feb 11, 2024 - summary, stats, boxscore, play by play, recap and more.

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[Bear of Bad News]

Ooo - they added one on the fifth! Just hit refresh.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Torey Krug, 5 secondary assists (3 EV A), +- of -1 in a 7-2 win. A fun story of the "power" of the secondary assist and of Plus-Minus too.

Montréal Canadiens - St. Louis Blues - Feb 11, 2024 | NHL.com

NHL Gamecenter - Montréal Canadiens vs. St. Louis Blues, Feb 11, 2024 - summary, stats, boxscore, play by play, recap and more.

www.nhl.com

How?
3 even strength you said, so that’s a plus 3.
How do you get -1, when the other team only scores 2 goals, and you have a +3 to go against it.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

How?
3 even strength you said, so that’s a plus 3.
How do you get -1, when the other team only scores 2 goals, and you have a +3 to go against it.

Looks like Krug was not on the ice for goal 4 or goal 7 (but earned assists on both even strength goals):

Game Summary

Interesting! Working from my phone so possible I misread a line.

 

[morehockeystats]

How?
3 even strength you said, so that’s a plus 3.
How do you get -1, when the other team only scores 2 goals, and you have a +3 to go against it.

That's exactly my point. He had the secondary assists and was off the ice by the time two of the goals were scored. Just a condensed illustration of the problems of both 2nd assists and +/- stats.

 

[TheStatican]

That's exactly my point. He had the secondary assists and was off the ice by the time two of the goals were scored. Just a condensed illustration of the problems of both 2nd assists and +/- stats.

Indeed. +/- is a joke stat and yet many on here continue to use it as if it holds some actual meaning.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Indeed. +/- is a joke stat and yet many on here continue to use it as if it holds some actual meaning.

Its actually fine if used right, comparing amongst teammates.

 

[Michael Farkas]

The "problem" with second assists is with the interpretation, not the product.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Its actually fine if used right, comparing amongst teammates.

Even comparing among teammates, you have to understand deployment and matchups.

Even if you're a great defensive forward, your plus-minus is going to look much better if you're always lined up against Kris Draper than if you're always liked up against Steve Yzerman.

 

[Regal]

Even comparing among teammates, you have to understand deployment and matchups.

Even if you're a great defensive forward, your plus-minus is going to look much better if you're always lined up against Kris Draper than if you're always liked up against Steve Yzerman.

Traditional plus minus is also bad because it combines multiple game states. It can have its uses when just isolating 5v5, but empty net and short handed (in both directions) goals throw things way off.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Traditional plus minus is also bad because it combines multiple game states. It can have its uses when just isolating 5v5, but empty net and short handed (in both directions) goals throw things way off.

Agree with the empty net one, not as much for a shortie though.
Not sure what you mean, in both directions.

 

[Regal]

Agree with the empty net one, not as much for a shortie though.
Not sure what you mean, in both directions.

I just meant both ways plus minus is affected, ie: a player on the PP gets a minus for a short handed goal against and one on the PK gets a plus for a short handed goal for. I think we can put some stock in those numbers on their own, but they muddy things when combined with 5v5/ES play.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I just meant both ways plus minus is affected, ie: a player on the PP gets a minus for a short handed goal against and one on the PK gets a plus for a short handed goal for. I think we can put some stock in those numbers on their own, but they muddy things when combined with 5v5/ES play.

Ya I’m fine with those being included.