Sean Couturier Part IV (2019-20 Selke Trophy Winner)

[kudymen]

What does he know? He's just a player.

Hahaha great post

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Robert Hagg is bad. I'm not sure how you don't see it. Flubbing outlet passes is bad especially ones where there isn't any pressure.

I’m on record, repeatedly, as saying Hagg “stinks.”

There are a number here who paint my lukewarm defense of him as an adequate but fungible #6 and PKer as calling him “good.”

Nope. Just many here perceive everything in black & white extremes. Either great or horrible. Not a hint of gray. Criticism of the heroes is heresy. Anything but invective about the villains is verboten.

There’s a narrative that the Flyers “never have the puck” when Hagg is on the ice, because out of every 100 shots taken, the Flyers take 5 fewer than the opponent with Hagg on the ice, & he tends to get disadvantageous deployments. It’s incredibly overblown. He had 20 points last season as a 23 year old defenseman in his second season, so obviously they had the puck.

He’s not good. No #6 defensemen in the league are good. But he’s cheap & serviceable & fills a role. IMO some fans need to back off their seething blind hatred & realize that two completely different GMs & coaching staffs (& Couturier) appreciate some of the things he does & trust him over other options like Morin. Maybe a few percentage points of CORSI!! & fan whipping-boy opinion aren’t everything.

 

[Stizzle]

All of this is true. Unfortunately, players aren't reliable evaluators of talent and never will be.

Exhibit A) Last year a few players (28/93?) met with Fletcher and asked that Simmonds not be traded.

 

[Harhis]

.

There’s a narrative that the Flyers “never have the puck” when Hagg is on the ice, because out of every 100 shots taken, the Flyers take 5 fewer than the opponent with Hagg on the ice, & he tends to get disadvantageous deployments. It’s incredibly overblown.

Thats just bs.

For every 100 goals scored while him being in the ice opponent was expected to score 22 more goals than Flyers. That like a f***ing bad.

And thats a sample of 82 games.

 

[achdumeingute]

I’m on record, repeatedly, as saying Hagg “stinks.”

There are a number here who paint my lukewarm defense of him as an adequate but fungible #6 and PKer as calling him “good.”

Nope. Just many here perceive everything in black & white extremes. Either great or horrible. Not a hint of gray. Criticism of the heroes is heresy. Anything but invective about the villains is verboten.

There’s a narrative that the Flyers “never have the puck” when Hagg is on the ice, because out of every 100 shots taken, the Flyers take 5 fewer than the opponent with Hagg on the ice, & he tends to get disadvantageous deployments. It’s incredibly overblown. He had 20 points last season as a 23 year old defenseman in his second season, so obviously they had the puck.

He’s not good. No #6 defensemen in the league are good. But he’s cheap & serviceable & fills a role. IMO some fans need to back off their seething blind hatred & realize that two completely different GMs & coaching staffs (& Couturier) appreciate some of the things he does & trust him over other options like Morin. Maybe a few percentage points of CORSI!! & fan whipping-boy opinion aren’t everything.

I'll say nice things about you at your Flyers HFBoards funeral.

 

[Johnk0728]

Couts' comment suggests simply that players see other players differently than fans do.
I'm sure he's aware of Hagg's weaknesses (he is a stat guy), but also expressed appreciation for Hagg's size and toughness.

"Robert Hagg. He doesn't put the number stats-wise, but he's really solid defensively. I think he's tough to play against, he's really physical. And he kinda brings that stability back there, of being solid."

So personnel decisions that enrage some here may be accepted or even applauded by teammates.
Since the comment was unsolicited, and to people not in the local media, it's less likely that Couts was merely fluffing.

Maybe message board geniuses aren't always correct. Remember, when Hagg runs a guy after Couturier takes a cheap shot from a guy that is does not go unnoticed and does have an affect on the game. he could just be touting on a teammate for a legit reason.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Thats just bs.

For every 100 goals scored while him being in the ice opponent was expected to score 22 more goals than Flyers. That like a ****ing bad.

And thats a sample of 82 games.

Actually, it’s fact, not BS.

And congrats on your unreliable, made-up fancy stat. In reality, you know, fact, Hagg was -3 in some tough usage. Not the end of the world considering disadvantageous usage on a team with bad goaltending as a guy who should be a #6 & serves a role as a PKer.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Yeah remember what he did to Gabriel after he ran Patrick?

 

[dragonoffrost]

Yeah remember what he did to Gabriel after he ran Patrick?

Threw him on top of Nolan?

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Actually, it’s fact, not BS.

And congrats on your unreliable, made-up fancy stat. In reality, you know, fact, Hagg was -3 in some tough usage. Not the end of the world considering disadvantageous usage on a team with bad goaltending as a guy who should be a #6 & serves a role as a PKer.

I don’t want to get sucked into this rabbit hole but using his +/- when he was anchored a lot on G and Coots line doesn’t mean much.

It’s frustrating as fans to watch someone with extremely limited skills go unscathed with regards to line up decisions.

He made it to the NHL, of course he has talent. This needs to be stated?

 

[deadhead]

Well given that Hagg is the #6 D-man, and would be #7 if Myers hadn't screwed up his opportunity to make the team, it isn't like he's "unscathed."

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I don’t want to get sucked into this rabbit hole but using his +/- when he was anchored a lot on G and Coots line doesn’t mean much.

It’s frustrating as fans to watch someone with extremely limited skills go unscathed with regards to line up decisions.

He made it to the NHL, of course he has talent. This needs to be stated?

To quote Dave Hakstol, “What’re you getting at?”

It’s not enough for me to say Hagg “stinks” & is fungible, but acknowledge that two different regimes have found him an acceptable cheap young depth defenseman in a league bereft of defensemen?

 

[BritainStix]

Thats just bs.

For every 100 goals scored while him being in the ice opponent was expected to score 22 more goals than Flyers. That like a ****ing bad.

And thats a sample of 82 games.

Sorry, how is this calculated? And I really don't understand the statement if I am honest.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

[QUOTE="Ghosts Beer, post: 165427351, member: 219445"]To quote Dave Hakstol, “What’re you getting at?”

It’s not enough for me to say Hagg “stinks” & is fungible, but acknowledge that two different regimes have found him an acceptable cheap young depth defenseman in a league bereft of defensemen?[/QUOTE]

Touché

Nothing in your statement is inaccurate. You seem to find it annoying/amusing we complain endlessly about Hagg and Hakstol. I just find it interesting you endlessly enjoy griping when we use absolutes in our descriptions.

“Hagg is complete garbage” “Hart is a God” etc are all very common exaggerations in sports. Emotion plays a huge part. Being logical and completely neutral is, well, boring.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

[QUOTE="Ghosts Beer, post: 165427351, member: 219445"]To quote Dave Hakstol, “What’re you getting at?”

It’s not enough for me to say Hagg “stinks” & is fungible, but acknowledge that two different regimes have found him an acceptable cheap young depth defenseman in a league bereft of defensemen?

Touché

Nothing in your statement is inaccurate. You seem to find it annoying/amusing we complain endlessly about Hagg and Hakstol. I just find it interesting you endlessly enjoy griping when we use absolutes in our descriptions.

“Hagg is complete garbage” “Hart is a God” etc are all very common exaggerations in sports. Emotion plays a huge part. Being logical and completely neutral is, well, boring.[/QUOTE]

That’s a reasonable response. I just get annoyed sometimes with the extreme polarity of opinions, “good vs. evil” type thinking, & the obsession with bottom-of-the-roster players.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Touché

Nothing in your statement is inaccurate. You seem to find it annoying/amusing we complain endlessly about Hagg and Hakstol. I just find it interesting you endlessly enjoy griping when we use absolutes in our descriptions.

“Hagg is complete garbage” “Hart is a God” etc are all very common exaggerations in sports. Emotion plays a huge part. Being logical and completely neutral is, well, boring.

That’s a reasonable response. I just get annoyed sometimes with the extreme polarity of opinions, “good vs. evil” type thinking, & the obsession with bottom-of-the-roster players.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. I sense there’s a face-painting, drunken streaker inside you somewhere.. Unleash the beast GB

 

[Harhis]

Sorry, how is this calculated? And I really don't understand the statement if I am honest.

That just is xGF% basically. Though is miss calculated that, it's not quite as bad.

According to hockey refrence Hägg's xGF% 42,6. So every 100 goals scored him on the ice Flyers score 42,6 goals. Leaving opponent with 57,4 goals. 15 goals dofference.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Maybe message board geniuses aren't always correct. Remember, when Hagg runs a guy after Couturier takes a cheap shot from a guy that is does not go unnoticed and does have an affect on the game. he could just be touting on a teammate for a legit reason.

How are you holding up these days since NBCSP canned you?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Couts' comment suggests simply that players see other players differently than fans do.
I'm sure he's aware of Hagg's weaknesses (he is a stat guy), but also expressed appreciation for Hagg's size and toughness.

"Robert Hagg. He doesn't put the number stats-wise, but he's really solid defensively. I think he's tough to play against, he's really physical. And he kinda brings that stability back there, of being solid."

So personnel decisions that enrage some here may be accepted or even applauded by teammates.
Since the comment was unsolicited, and to people not in the local media, it's less likely that Couts was merely fluffing.

The bolded indicates that Couturier is fluffing up a teammate, because it is flat-out untrue. You think he'd say anything but "this player is great?"

 

[Striiker]

Can anyone show me an example of an NHL player bashing a teammate to the media?

 

[deadhead]

The bolded indicates that Couturier is fluffing up a teammate, because it is flat-out untrue. You think he'd say anything but "this player is great?"

Except he didn't have to mention him at all. The question was open ended. A politic answer would have ended with Sanheim.

 

[Lotusflower]

Exhibit A) Last year a few players (28/93?) met with Fletcher and asked that Simmonds not be traded.

Not saying youre lying but you got a source for this?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Except he didn't have to mention him at all. The question was open ended. A politic answer would have ended with Sanheim.

They pump up the bad players who take heat from fans. Remember MacDonald?

Hagg, like MacDonald and Manning before him, will exit the league rapidly once we finally move on to something better.

 

[Lotusflower]

Not saying youre lying but you got a source for this?

@Stizzle. Still looking for a source.

 

[Appleyard]