GDT: SEA @ COL | 7:30pm MT | Game 7 Emergency

[The Kingslayer]

...and I thought this board overreacted...

The timing was hilarious. Not long after the Avs season ends he posts that lol

 

[dahrougem2]

Nathan MacKinnon was on the ice for 11 GF and 3 GA at even strength. If you include PPG and SHG, he was on the ice for 13 GF and 5 GA.

The Avs scored 19 total goals in this series and allowed 17.

Unreal.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Pretty much how I feel too.

It has certainly been the season from hell. After we lost Cogs and it was announced that he was out for the playoffs, I was so deflated. I mean, next-man up is all fine and good but not when you don't have anyone!

Injuries and absences notwithstanding :

* you cannot win if your depth players can't score. Not only did they not score but they didn't even COME CLOSE to scoring. Try to remember a good opportunity from someone in the bottom 6. Yeah, there weren't any. If they can't chip-in AND they don't do much in terms of checking, hitting or disrupting the other team then they are pretty much useless. Can't have that in the playoffs - need one OR the other - preferably both.

* You cannot win if your power-play goes 1 for 17 after 6 games. We were 1-for-1 last night so I think it was 2 for 18 for the series which is about 11%. That's COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE for a team with this much talent even with the injuries. Ray Bennett never changed anything up and it's basically let's throw them out there and hope it works out. Let's get someone in here that can coach a PP please for the love of GOD!!! WIth our talent, we should be Top-3 in the league every single year.

* You cannot win if your supposed #2C is SO BRUTAL that the guy you brought-in to be the #3C needs to come in and take his place. Sorry guys, I see a TON of bitching about the Sophmore Newhook being bad (and he sure was) but he was being used as a 4th line player and was not close to as bad as what the Son of Bednar brought to the table which was a whole lot of nothing. For the amount of ice time he got and the opportunities he KEPT GETTING playing with good linemates, sometimes great linemates - he was complete and utter garbage. If I had to guess, he was too upset he wasn't offered a contract extension to give a shit and play his hardest. After putting up his 50 points pretty much guaranteeing him a sweet contract - he sure turned back into a pumpkin quickly and looked like the JTC for the first 2.5 years of that 4 year deal. He will not be missed.

* You cannot win if your coaching staff doesn't recognize that Josh Manson IS NOT good-to-go, regardless of what the player tells you. He was clearly laboring out there and had issues keeping up. They needed to recognize this way earlier as the Manson-EJ combo was beyond atrocious for the first 4 games of the series. They kept getting hemmed into the zone and unable to retrieve pucks and get them out. I hope Manson can make a full recovery but he looked about 70% out there to me and kept getting worse. Another giant FAIL by the medical staff/trainers and coaches.

* You cannot win if you're going into a Game #7 and your best call-up to replace Cogliano is journeyman d-man Brad Hunt. What the hell kind of a call was that? He played one shift (that I remember) where he didn't seem to know where to play - as a forward - and then sat on the bench the rest of the night. What the hell was the point of that ?

My personal belief is that the Avs lost in the first round this year because of too much loyalty towards certain players who helped them win the Cup last season. Loyalty towards EJ and his last year of his deal. Towards JTC who had done an admirable job at #2C until the TDL but then fell off the face of the earth... no one could see that coming! Towards Josh Manson whom I'm sure assured them he would be ready for Game #1 (it shouldn't be his decision). Too much loyalty towards bottom line players like LOC and Nieto - IF these players are not playing their hearts out and providing results then you need to have the ability to replace them with NHL caliber players who will.

For example, if you're telling me that John Klingberg only cost a 4th round pick at the TDL and you couldn't match that or beat - or you WOULDN'T because he would take the ice-time away from EJ or Manson then you're doing it wrong. You need to make that deal even if it costs you a Nick Henry/Tyler Weiss/Alex Beaucage type of draft pick.

If Curtis Lazar costs a 4th round pick and that guy is 51.9% of faceoffs and Darren Helm has been a question mark all year long, you need to make that move.

I understand that they didn't feel like they needed to go out and get a guy like Timo Meier and the costs associated with acquiring that kind of player but for me, it's these kind of depth moves that could have really added up. I'm not saying Klingberg and Lazar are fantastic players but every small move that you can make to improve your depth will end up helping in the end.

So hopefully, Avs management has learned a lesson about having appropriate depth for a playoff run. Sometimes the difference between winning and losing having a guy like Lazar in your lineup instead of a rookie like Meyers even if it ends up costing you a quality prospect like Nick Magyar, Mason Geersten or Jaochim Nermark.

I know you cannot expect the team to win every single year but my expectations as a fan is that Avs management will do all they can to give them the best shot to try. I do not feel like they did that this year.

Spot on with everything here Bender. Even just a little more help for the roster at the TDL could have made a difference. My only hope is that CMac has a greater plan go forward of what he wants to do with the assets he didnt give up. Something, anything that can make sense of him doing next to nothing at the TDL. Like if the plan is to use those assets to try and fleece someone for a youngish 2C this offseason then I can forgive his inaction.

 

[The Kingslayer]

The sad part is that Malgin and Eller at least looked like they were trying and crashing the net, Compher being the most established player also looked like he gave the least amount of f***s

Compher looked like a guy who knew he secured the bag after his regular season and didnt want to jeopardize losing any of his future income by getting hurt in the post season. He really did look like he couldnt be bothered. The optics were just as bad as his stat line.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Nathan MacKinnon was on the ice for 11 GF and 3 GA at even strength. If you include PPG and SHG, he was on the ice for 13 GF and 5 GA.

The Avs scored 19 total goals in this series and allowed 17.

Unreal.

Thats pretty dominant but history will only show that his team lost in the first round to an expansion team. When the Oilers beat the Avs in 98 nobody brings up the fact that Sakic was suspended for that game 1. Same with 99 when Foppa played Game 7 with one shoulder against Dallas.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

It's the dizees Stanley Cup. Let him enjoy it.

 

[dahrougem2]

Thats pretty dominant but history will only show that his team lost in the first round to an expansion team. When the Oilers beat the Avs in 98 nobody brings up the fact that Sakic was suspended for that game 1. Same with 99 when Foppa played Game 7 with one shoulder against Dallas.

Yeah, it's tough.

Stat sheet will also read him only generating 1 assist despite the Avs goal probably going in without hitting Mikko and the 2nd goal getting called back.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Yeah, it's tough.

Stat sheet will also read him only generating 1 assist despite the Avs goal probably going in without hitting Mikko and the 2nd goal getting called back.

Exactly. Oiler fans dont care. My desk was decorated with Oiler shit this morning and a get well card signed by nearly everyone here haha. I told them they need to win the cup before they start raising the same banner the Leafs are right now.

 

[dahrougem2]

Exactly. Oiler fans dont care. My desk was decorated with Oiler shit this morning and a get well card signed by nearly everyone here haha. I told them they need to win the cup before they start raising the same banner the Leafs are right now.

I showed up intentionally late to work lol

 

[Bender]

Spot on with everything here Bender. Even just a little more help for the roster at the TDL could have made a difference. My only hope is that CMac has a greater plan go forward of what he wants to do with the assets he didnt give up. Something, anything that can make sense of him doing next to nothing at the TDL. Like if the plan is to use those assets to try and fleece someone for a youngish 2C this offseason then I can forgive his inaction.

I think that's kind of the hope.

Someone mentioned that the Avs could end up going the Chicago / LA Kings of the 2010's way of competing for Cups in alternating years I thought that was an interesting point.

It's still very hard to win the Cup and everything has to go right but to hope and pray that the stars lineup *again* for the team this season seemed like a bit of a stretch but I refused to be believe that CMAC/SAKIC (let's face it - titles aside, both those guys are still working side-by-side) are too inept NOT to have a long-term plan that makes sense.

By the time the draft/free agency rolls around, I think you'll see movement to bring in a guy to anchor that 2nd line... I don't see the Avs getting back to where they should be without making that move and I think they know that. It's likely going to cost one of our D + prospect or maybe the 1st rounder depending on who it is but it's going to have to happen.

 

[NOTENOUGHRYJOTHINGS]

I think that's kind of the hope.

Someone mentioned that the Avs could end up going the Chicago / LA Kings of the 2010's way of competing for Cups in alternating years I thought that was an interesting point.

It's still very hard to win the Cup and everything has to go right but to hope and pray that the stars lineup *again* for the team this season seemed like a bit of a stretch but I refused to be believe that CMAC/SAKIC (let's face it - titles aside, both those guys are still working side-by-side) are too inept NOT to have a long-term plan that makes sense.

By the time the draft/free agency rolls around, I think you'll see movement to bring in a guy to anchor that 2nd line... I don't see the Avs getting back to where they should be without making that move and I think they know that. It's likely going to cost one of our D + prospect or maybe the 1st rounder depending on who it is but it's going to have to happen.

I think they knew this season was shot without Landy.

If they needed more help to beat the Kraken in game 7 they aren't getting by Dallas.

So there was no point in wasting assets.

The league got a bit smarter the last few years. Look at what Vegas got in the expansion draft compared to Seattle.

And teams had to tighten their salaries due to the flat cap. But we're seeing contracts rise again. Starting with the Horvat abomination.

There will be value out there to having free cap space.

 

[AvBuff]

I think they knew this season was shot without Landy.

If they needed more help to beat the Kraken in game 7 they aren't getting by Dallas.

So there was no point in wasting assets.

The league got a bit smarter the last few years. Look at what Vegas got in the expansion draft compared to Seattle.

And teams had to tighten their salaries due to the flat cap. But we're seeing contracts rise again. Starting with the Horvat abomination.

There will be value out there to having free cap space.

This. You swing deals at the TDL to bolster a squad that needs a piece or 2 to plug a hole or get over the hump - not create 1/4 of an injury depleted roster . Makar was hurt all year, Landy out, Manson and Helm out . . . and Nuke wasn't right all year. In the foot and the head, apparently. I'm glad McSakic held on to their their cards . Fair to criticize them here and there, but they just didn't get stupid in a year.

Ask Boston how it feels to go "all in" at the TDL and get bounced by a wild card team. This just wasn't the year for the Avs to do it.

Just an opinion.

 

[henchman21]

I think that's kind of the hope.

Someone mentioned that the Avs could end up going the Chicago / LA Kings of the 2010's way of competing for Cups in alternating years I thought that was an interesting point.

It's still very hard to win the Cup and everything has to go right but to hope and pray that the stars lineup *again* for the team this season seemed like a bit of a stretch but I refused to be believe that CMAC/SAKIC (let's face it - titles aside, both those guys are still working side-by-side) are too inept NOT to have a long-term plan that makes sense.

By the time the draft/free agency rolls around, I think you'll see movement to bring in a guy to anchor that 2nd line... I don't see the Avs getting back to where they should be without making that move and I think they know that. It's likely going to cost one of our D + prospect or maybe the 1st rounder depending on who it is but it's going to have to happen.

Here's the #1 issue with that model, age. In 2010, Chicago was a VERY young team. Kane was 20, Toews was 21, Keith was 26, Seabrook 24, etc etc. 2010 was a very young team. The 2013 team was arguably younger since young talent was coming in... the core guys clearly aged (still younger than the Avs today overall). Saad, Leddy, and Shaw were young injections into the team. 2015 was overall a pretty comparable age to the Avs today. The 2012 Kings were older than the 2010 Hawks, but another team that was younger than Avs. Kopi was 24 in the first Cup. Voynov and Doughty were 21. You can go down the list and see how much younger their main guys were in those first Cup years. The Avs compare age wise much closer to the 2015 Hawks and 2014 Kings.

Also, Avs don't get cap circumvention contracts to lock down core guys until they are 40. Much, much harder to get excess value on core guys now.

 

[Forceberg]

All we need is a 2C, a healthy Landeskog and whatever the hell is up with Nichushkin figured out.

If Nuke and Landy both come back a 2C will be enough for the top 6. But bottom 6 are a mess as well.
A lot to do for CMac.

 

[UncleRisto]

Oh f***, wrong thread.

 

[GeoRox89]

I think that's kind of the hope.

Someone mentioned that the Avs could end up going the Chicago / LA Kings of the 2010's way of competing for Cups in alternating years I thought that was an interesting point.

It's still very hard to win the Cup and everything has to go right but to hope and pray that the stars lineup *again* for the team this season seemed like a bit of a stretch but I refused to be believe that CMAC/SAKIC (let's face it - titles aside, both those guys are still working side-by-side) are too inept NOT to have a long-term plan that makes sense.

By the time the draft/free agency rolls around, I think you'll see movement to bring in a guy to anchor that 2nd line... I don't see the Avs getting back to where they should be without making that move and I think they know that. It's likely going to cost one of our D + prospect or maybe the 1st rounder depending on who it is but it's going to have to happen.

I would love this but putting aside the age difference with the cores for a minute: the Kings lost to the Hawks in the 2013 WCF and a game 7 loss to the Kings in the 2014 WCF is what stood between the Hawks and a 3 peat (I think they beat the Rangers if they get by LA)

That’s fairly different to this teams total lack of depth and first round exit. Massive age difference in the core but they’d be more targeting the 2010 Hawks than anyone else

 

[StLAvsFan]

Nathan MacKinnon was on the ice for 11 GF and 3 GA at even strength. If you include PPG and SHG, he was on the ice for 13 GF and 5 GA.

The Avs scored 19 total goals in this series and allowed 17.

Unreal.

Honestly, I'm glad the Avs are out, coz now Stan Kroenke doesn't get any more ticket & concession revenue for an undeserved playoff series against Dallas. The Avs decided to go cheap all year long, so they richly earned their fate--to be humbled & embarrassed by a 2nd yr. expansion team led by (of all people) Philip Grubauer.

 

[Bender]

Here's the #1 issue with that model, age. In 2010, Chicago was a VERY young team. Kane was 20, Toews was 21, Keith was 26, Seabrook 24, etc etc. 2010 was a very young team. The 2013 team was arguably younger since young talent was coming in... the core guys clearly aged (still younger than the Avs today overall). Saad, Leddy, and Shaw were young injections into the team. 2015 was overall a pretty comparable age to the Avs today. The 2012 Kings were older than the 2010 Hawks, but another team that was younger than Avs. Kopi was 24 in the first Cup. Voynov and Doughty were 21. You can go down the list and see how much younger their main guys were in those first Cup years. The Avs compare age wise much closer to the 2015 Hawks and 2014 Kings.

Also, Avs don't get cap circumvention contracts to lock down core guys until they are 40. Much, much harder to get excess value on core guys now.

I mentionned that someone suggested trying to go for it every 'other' year like when Chicago and LA alternated championships from 2010-to-2014.

I didn't mention anything else or draw any parallels to teams being in the same situation but whatever.

 

[henchman21]

I mentionned that someone suggested trying to go for it every 'other' year like when Chicago and LA alternated championships from 2010-to-2014.

I didn't mention anything else or draw any parallels to teams being in the same situation but whatever.

That's not what really happened though. Chicago won their Cup and was in immediate cap hell. They had to sell off and re-tool to build back up. Once they did, they won 2 Cups in 3 years. That middle year between Cups 2 and 3, they went for it... they just lost to LA in the WC finals. LA also won 2 Cups in 3 years while going for it each time. The year they lost was the year Chicago got their revenge in the WC finals. There really wasn't a one year on, one year off situation with those teams. They were runs that just ran into one of the other great teams of the era.

Avs are really not like those teams, especially early in their runs. Avs are more akin to the Caps in reality. A team that struggle to get out of the 2nd round, broke through in a great year with middle to late core.

 

[Alex Jones]

Also doesn't help that the Avs started putting guys on third contracts during the flat cap era. Not going all out two years ago is what really hurts.

 

[henchman21]

Also doesn't help that the Avs started putting guys on third contracts during the flat cap era. Not going all out two years ago is what really hurts.

From the moment they decided to burn the first year of Makar's ELC (if it was that deadline prior or if it just happened in that moment), from that point forward should have been all in. There was too much hedging in 2020 and 2021, but in the end... can't complain too much. The Avs got one Cup and that is better than most rebuilds. Figuring out how to get a 2nd out of this group will be pretty difficult.

 

[Alex Jones]

From the moment they decided to burn the first year of Makar's ELC (if it was that deadline prior or if it just happened in that moment), from that point forward should have been all in. There was too much hedging in 2020 and 2021, but in the end... can't complain too much. The Avs got one Cup and that is better than most rebuilds. Figuring out how to get a 2nd out of this group will be pretty difficult.

My biggest complaint is that it seems like the Avs thought (or maybe even still think) that there is a model out there where they become long term competitors by keeping their future assets and continually developing key roster pieces. This is great if it works due to how great the discount is on the first couple of contracts, but that's not the way the NHL works. The fact that we have our next three firsts is infuriating.

 

[henchman21]

My biggest complaint is that it seems like the Avs thought (or maybe even still think) that there is a model out there where they become long term competitors by keeping their future assets and continually developing key roster pieces. This is great if it works due to how great the discount is on the first couple of contracts, but that's not the way the NHL works. The fact that we have our next three firsts is infuriating.

To be fair, there is a model that does do that. The difference is you need to win a Cup when the majority of your core is 20-23. The results prior should help the drafts prior be more successful and carry the depth of the team for 5-6-7 years. Problem is the Avs won their Cup too late for that to be realistic.

 

[BleedWell]

Nathan MacKinnon was on the ice for 11 GF and 3 GA at even strength. If you include PPG and SHG, he was on the ice for 13 GF and 5 GA.

The Avs scored 19 total goals in this series and allowed 17.

Unreal.

Rantanen had 7 goals and 10 points.
Mackinnon had only 3 goals and 7 points.

Second season in a row Rants outscored Mack in the playoffs. Third time overall.

Unreal.

 

[GeoRox89]

From the moment they decided to burn the first year of Makar's ELC (if it was that deadline prior or if it just happened in that moment), from that point forward should have been all in. There was too much hedging in 2020 and 2021, but in the end... can't complain too much. The Avs got one Cup and that is better than most rebuilds. Figuring out how to get a 2nd out of this group will be pretty difficult.

Even if they went for it in 2020 and magically didn’t have those injuries, I don’t think they would’ve gotten past the Lightning. 2021 was a real failure though and that was the one time they really choked a series away as well.

There have certainly been core groups that won more than the 90s-00s Avs and the 20s Avs but I think people are underestimating how hard it is to build a new winning group. From 96 onwards only the Avs and Lightning have actually won with 2 entirely different groups. If you go back to 90 you can add the Pens to that. Despite 5+ year gaps between Cups, the Wings, post lockout Pens and Devils all had pieces that were parts of the earlier Cup winning cores