Scott Niedermayer vs Drew Doughty

[Perfect_Drug]

Can someone explain to me how a guy with only three times a finalist for the Norris with one win is being insulted here?

Niedermayer is a case of a guy who peaked toward the end of his career, and that performance is retroactively applied to the preceding 15 years where he simply was not as good.

Niedermeyer was stuck in a defensive straight jacket of a system in New Jersey.

Everyone knew how good he was, but he was never allowed to "show" it prior to joining Anaheim.

 

[The Macho King]

Niedermeyer was stuck in a defensive straight jacket of a system in New Jersey.

Everyone knew how good he was, but he was never allowed to "show" it prior to joining Anaheim.

New Jersey was a fairly high scoring team, he got prime pp time and did not get heavy assignments.

This is nonsense.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

New Jersey was a fairly high scoring team, he got prime pp time and did not get heavy assignments.

This is nonsense.

He never got to pinch, or carry the puck unless he was on Team Canada.

 

[Voight]

Not sure if it was the playstyle or the era? but players FROM that era seemed to have a LOT more longevity, being elite players into the mid/late-30's

It seems like a LOT of those Dmen seemed to make a huge impact in the 90's and 2000's, whereas Dmen from this era (aside from maybe Weber) are falling off of a cliff in their early 30's.


Pronger
Niedermeyer
Lidstrom
Gonchar
Chara
Rafalski

Good insight, but Rafalski wasn't a full time player until his late 20s so not sure if I'd group him in there.

 

[Docgonzo]

It’s hard to measure them now because Niedermayer went from one really good team to another really good team. Since they Kings went into a rebuild is when Doughty started getting thought of not being good anymore. I bet opinions would be different if he signed somewhere else instead of re-signing with the Kings, which he has to take responsibility for.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

Norris: 1--1
Finalist: 4--3
Top 10: 8--6

Both guys have cups, gold medals, big playoff runs so that's all a wash. Why does Doughty need a "resurgence" when he's already had the better career? Niedermayer is 1 of the most overrated players ever. He played great the last few years of his career and people act like he was like that his whole career. This is Doughty.

 

[The Macho King]

Norris: 1--1
Finalist: 4--3
Top 10: 8--6

Both guys have cups, gold medals, big playoff runs so that's all a wash. Why does Doughty need a "resurgence" when he's already had the better career? Niedermayer is 1 of the most overrated players ever. He played great the last few years of his career and people act like he was like that his whole career. This is Doughty.

I do think there is value in being good not great for an extended period like Niedermayer was, which is at least somewhat in question with DD. Although DD doesn't have the ability to hide behind a top 15 dman of all time like Nieds did.

Agreed on the rest though.

 

[ESH]

Norris: 1--1
Finalist: 4--3
Top 10: 8--6

Both guys have cups, gold medals, big playoff runs so that's all a wash. Why does Doughty need a "resurgence" when he's already had the better career? Niedermayer is 1 of the most overrated players ever. He played great the last few years of his career and people act like he was like that his whole career. This is Doughty.

not all Norris finishes are equal. Niedermayer in 05-06/06-7 was just as good/arguably even better than Doughty was in 15-16. Niedermayer just happened to be playing at the same time as Lidstrom

 

[Docgonzo]

How many years did Niedermayer play without another Hall of Famer in his defensive Corps? It’s a little easier when you don’t have to do all the heavy lifting by yourself.

You can’t tell me Doughty would benefit from having Stevens or Pronger out there even if they weren’t paired together.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I'm surprised by how little it's held against him that Niedermayer wasn't the best defenseman on any of his championship teams.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

Close.

I’d probably go Niedermayer off of his longevity.

Who knows though, maybe Doughty can have a resurgence later in his career when the Kings youth improves.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think what Drew does from here on out matters, but I do think Neidermeyer's early career is getting glorified by his last years, while Doughty's is getting glossed over because of 2019-2020. As well as drawing the usual ire of this board.

FWIW Drew has looked resurgent this year, I have no doubt if the Kings were showing better people would realize it more, but look at the Kings current D corps and the kinds of heavy lifting he's having to do night in and night out.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

I'm surprised by how little the fact Niedermayer wasn't the best defenseman on any of his championship teams is held against him.

I know Scott Stevens was on his team but he led the Devils in ATOI in regular seaosn and playoffs in 00 and 03. Tied for team lead in playoff scoring in 03. Dont have the numbers for 95.

 

[The Macho King]

I know Scott Stevens was on his team but he led the Devils in ATOI in regular seaosn and playoffs in 00 and 03. Tied for team lead in playoff scoring in 03. Dont have the numbers for 95.

A big part of that is he got PP time while Steven's generally didn't. EV and SH Steven's got more ice time.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

A big part of that is he got PP time while Steven's generally didn't. EV and SH Steven's got more ice time.

True. nhl.com says he played more at full strength than stevens in 2000 run though

NHL Stats

 

[SRHRangers]

Love Doughty and don't get the hate at all with him.

Neids though is in the most underrated ever. He was an awesome soldier that played the system in NJ given although it was in alot of ways, against his strengths.

I take Neids, with no disrespect to Doughty.

 

[Regal]

True. nhl.com says he played more at full strength than stevens in 2000 run though

NHL Stats

He averaged 3 seconds more while Stevens won the Conn Smythe in 2000. Regardless of ice time, Niedermayer was not the best defenseman on the team. At the time it was arguable if Rafalski was better.

2003 he was the best though. That was his "coming out party" into Norris level play that continued on the following year and onto Anaheim

 

[spiny norman]

Lopsided result.