blundluntman
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"Saving Sakic" series to be released on Amazon Prime
- Thread starter blundluntman
- Start date
buffalowing88
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Avalanche fans must have really loved Air Force One when it hit theaters!
Voight
#winning
Can't wait, Amazon picking up Netflix slack when it comes to hockey content.
Will be interesting how they stretch out a 10 minute story into a full length show. But looking forward to Sakic's comments especially with him having experience as GM now. The timing with the movie was somewhat fortuitous. Air Force One was released on July 25 and the offer sheet was signed on August 7. It was a different movie studio, but I remember Warner Brothers having several box office duds around this time which led to the cancellation of the Nicolas Cage Superman movie.
Despite that the influx of movie money, Colorado did have to shave down payroll and traded Scott Young and Mike Ricci; Although Avs GM Pierre Lacroix was on a side quest to accumulate as many 1998 1sts as he could to try to land Vinny Lecavalier.
Despite that the influx of movie money, Colorado did have to shave down payroll and traded Scott Young and Mike Ricci; Although Avs GM Pierre Lacroix was on a side quest to accumulate as many 1998 1sts as he could to try to land Vinny Lecavalier.
RR44
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I wonder how interested Sakic was in joining the Rangers despite the $15 mil up front? I would believe he wanted to remain in Denver given they had some unfinished business after losing to Detroit in 96-97.
I also want to know if the Rangers did send the Rockerfeller middle finger salute to the Avs when they matched!
ShelbyZ
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At that point, Sakic and the Avs had only been in Denver for 2 years, so maybe he wasn't quite settled in yet. Heading back East would've meant less travel and with the Rangers he'd get to play with Wayne Gretzky and popular Avs teammate Mike Keane who had left Colorado to sign with the Rangers a couple weeks or so before Sakic signed the offer sheet.
lakai17
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I instantly assumed this would be about the Swift Current bus crash he survived. At least implemented in the documentary. The title being Saving Sakic.
Tough to turn down 15 million, especially in 1997 dollars. Rangers were fresh off of a Conference Final appearance, so they were more attractive without the benefit of hindsight. And if I were in my late 20s, living around NYC would be fun.
As others noted, I'm not sure Sakic had extra loyalty to Colorado at that point. Plus he already got a Cup in 1996, so I don't know if there'd be any that much "unfinished business" to be had. The money really escalated coming out of the 1995 CBA, so I think the players were understandably trying to cash in.
I'll try to dig it up, but I think I stumbled on an old NYPost article which mentioned that Sakic felt like he owed the Rangers for getting him the 1997 contract to the point where he might consider them as an unrestricted free agent destination down the line. But that might have been NYPost trash.
The Panther
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He also survived Graham James!
Crosby2010
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1997 was a crazy year for this. Chris Gratton got a similar signing bonus. With Sakic at least you know you had a superstar. But to leave a team of Forsberg and Roy? You've got year after year Cup contention for a long time. I get that in the summer of 1997 we didn't know the downfall the Rangers would enter, and Gretzky, Leetch and Richter seems like a good team with the addition of Sakic. But they still weren't as good as the Avs.
vadim sharifijanov
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this is funny, we’ve been hearing this story for 25 years and until just now it never clicked for me that the movie in question wasn’t con air
like every time i read or heard air force one i always pictured nic cage in a wifebeater
buffalowing88
Registered User
We just really loved rogue plane stories in the 90s apparently. Die Hard 2 is probably my favorite of the 'genre' haha.
Unrelated, but when I walked out of theater for Superman Returns in 2006, I learned that Patrik Elias re-signed with the Devils. That movie was boring, but I can't help but smile when I'm channel surfing and see it.
The Gratton ordeal would make for a fun retrospective on its own. Tampa's murky Japanese ownership group, Lightning GM Phil Esposito trying to deal Gratton to Chicago only for the offer sheet to come through, and then Esposito trying to claim that the fax was smudged in order to buy more time to submit the Chicago deal.
I'll be curious how deep they talk about the team's finances. I'd wonder if Sakic was worried the Avs didn't have the budget for him and Forsberg long term. The Avs had already done some cost cutting after the 1996 Cup (Simon/Leschyshyn) and then traded Young/Ricci after matching the Sakic offer. The angle with the Rangers was that Dave Checketts knew how much the Avs/Nuggets owners had been losing due to their arena.
Lacroix already was angling to get Vinny Lecavalier in 1998. If I remember correctly, Lacroix wasn't exactly quiet about his intentions either. If they had gotten Lecavalier, would they have then tried to deal Sakic or Forsberg?
Crosby2010
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If I recall did Lacroix not pool all of his first round picks and offer them to Tampa for the 1st overall pick? They did want Lecavalier a lot. I think it goes to show you just how revered he was at that time.
What could have been: Avalanche, Lecavalier
If the Avalanche had had its way, Vinny Lecavalier would be wearing a Colorado uniform.
Heard different rumors, found this blurb yesterday:
I still find it a small miracle that Colorado's haul didn't end up being better. Boston-San Jose-LA-Washington had picked #1-2-3-9 in the 1997 Draft. Colorado also had Tampa's 2nd (#28) and Chicago's 2nd (#38) from trades made in 1996.
DEJA JOE ALL OVER AGAIN RANGERS MAKING 2ND TRY AT SAKIC
MARK Messier was the best center available on the free-agent market and Glen Sather got him. Now, Joe Sakic is the best center available on the trade market and Sather is looking into getting him, …
nypost.com
Not sure if it was just wishful thinking from Larry Brooks, but this article mentioned that the Avs still had salary constraints in 2000 for Sakic's next deal. The Avs had been sold a couple weeks before that article to Stan Kroenke who had much deeper pockets than the previous ownership group.
I wonder if Sakic would just simply say that 15 million up front was too good of an offer to pass up and that he was content playing in Colorado or New York knowing that money was coming.
Another fun one I forgot about was the Leafs signing Mattias Ohlund to a 5 year, 10 million dollar deal with a 7.5 million dollar signing bonus around the same time.
As a 1994 draft pick, Ohlund was grandfathered into the previous CBA's rules. As I remember it, 1993 picks Brendan Witt and Todd Bertuzzi weren't forced to sign under the new rookie deal parameters ushered in with the 1995 CBA either.
One small clause in the previous CBA was unsigned European draft picks being allowed to sign offer sheets a couple years removed from the draft as Group IV RFAs. This is how Calgary signed Teemu Selanne in 1992 which Winnipeg begrudgingly matched. Unlike Group I/II RFAs, the original team would get no compensation if they didn't match.
Quebec apparently made a late offer of an unsigned Peter Forsberg for the #2 pick in the 1993 Draft with the intention of drafting Chris Pronger. But San Jose declined because that gave them no time to negotiate with Forsberg and they weren't sure if they could match a bloated offer sheet. Selanne had gotten a 1.5 million dollar signing bonus and there were rumors that teams would pony up 4-5 million for Forsberg.
Ohlund remained unsigned through the summer of 1997 and Toronto swooped in with a frontloaded offer. Vancouver eventually matched.
Summer 1997 sucked for the Rangers. They managed poorly when they exiled Messier. They should have both re-signed Messier and signed Sakic.
The Rangers began their own downfall when they exiled Mark Messier.
Crosby2010
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Its funny, because both Vancouver and New York started a sharp decline in the summer of 1997. Vancouver narrowly missed the playoffs while New York at least made it to the semis. But the Messier thing was a mistake for both teams. The Rangers should have kept Messier and the Canucks shouldn't have signed him. Fedorov was available that summer too and the Canucks should have tried to get him to play with the disgruntled Bure and Mogilny. Can you imagine that old junior hockey line back together? I think they'd have kept both wingers happy and that would have set them up for years in the future.
Yep. Rangers should have kept Messier and signed Sakic before the Air Force one release Date. Truth is that the Rangers wanted to exile Messier.
Im just assuming theres no possible way either side could have predicted the harrison ford movies importance without hindsight
If it was from Brooks, it was horseshit. He was just a vehicle for the Rangers to tamper.
He spent all 00-01 saying he was signing as a UFA with the Rangers that offseason, usually Blake too and he even got adventurous enough to add Roy.
So I see alot of posts here about what was going on at this time. I was gonna quote them but it would have been alot so I'm gonna just post a long response here.
The Rangers had soured on Messier by 97. Post 94 and even as early as 92 Messier thought he knew more than everybody in the organization. These thoughts got bigger especially after the cup win in 94. What led the front office and ownership to not do anything about it was that he was holding up his end of the bargain in 95 and 96. By 97 this wasn't the case people talk up the 97 run, but what they easily forget is that Messier was virtually invisible outside of a few games vs Florida. It was Gretzky, Leetch and Richter really leading the charge along with Tikkanen too. It was no secret that the Rangers and most of the league knew that Messier's days as an elite player were over. The only person really who didn't know this was Vancouver owner John McCaw who was out for blood after the Cancucks lost out on Gretzky the previous year.
With this all in play Neil Smith and Rangers ownership agreed to let Messier walk. It was the direction afterwards is where they didn't agree, Smith wanted to rebuild, ownership wanted to replace. Smith hated the idea of the offer sheet but ownership convinced him it was a sure thing. On top of that to say that oh why would Sakic want to leave well as most of us know the Avs were broke and Sakic had won his cup in 96. At the end of the day it is a buisiness and well there was uncertainty in Quebec and now uncertainty in Denver and well again as most of us know Madison Square Garden had no problem printing money and I think Sakic knew in his mind he wouldn't need to worry about pay or uncertain ownership. On top if that New York had become a desirable destination in the 90s the ownership was finally treating the players well and the city itself was on its way up. Plus Gretzky was there they would have been lethal on the pp.
So the big question is what if and the aftermath of it all. For the Rangers well I don't think the dark ages happen but at the same time I'm not sure they win a cup. While Sakic was an upgrade over a 36 year old Messier and Pat LaFontaine (who was ultimately brought in) the Rangers were still a bit disjointed. They had made bad trades in the 90s letting guys like Doug Weight and Mattias Norstrom go for Messier's old Edmonton buddies(I know Tikkanen came back for Weight but they could have paid less). On top of it ownership and Messier himself overvalued Alexei Kovalev who could have been moved twice for Brendan Shanahan. A Sakic and Shanahan combo would have meant a cup or 2 imo. But if we go by semi irl do the Rangers keep Richter in 98 or if in better posistion go after Cujo. With Kovalev finally being given up on in 98 but them having 2 centers in Sakic and Gretzky maybe they move him and others in a deal for guys like Bure,Fleury, or Recchi guys Gretzky asked for. ( Smith didn't want Bure because of his knees).
For Colorado I think they run into problems. For as much as people hype Forsberg, Sakic was the glue of that team. With him gone who gets the c , I doubt Forsberg maybe Foote?? Idk. I think they maybe are a playoff team but not contenders anymore. On top of all of it Lacroix was very high on Lecavalier if he really coughs up all he has draft wise for him that means no Hedjuk,Tanguay or Drury. I'd say Hedjuk was better than Lecavlier Tanguay probably not Drury definitely not. So if you take a team in the late 90s led by Forsberg and Lecavalier and put them up vs the powerhouses in the west they're not better than Detroit,Dallas or even St.Louis. Which probably means no Fleury in 99,no Bourque in 2000 and 01 and no cup in 01 either. Which means does Roy bolt in 01 as an fa, does Bourque go to Philly and get the job done in 2000, does Detroit win in 99 and cap off 3 in a row (Detroit was the Stars kryptonite) and well do these same Avs become sellers around 03 instead of contenders? All because of 7 days in the summer of 97
The Rangers had soured on Messier by 97. Post 94 and even as early as 92 Messier thought he knew more than everybody in the organization. These thoughts got bigger especially after the cup win in 94. What led the front office and ownership to not do anything about it was that he was holding up his end of the bargain in 95 and 96. By 97 this wasn't the case people talk up the 97 run, but what they easily forget is that Messier was virtually invisible outside of a few games vs Florida. It was Gretzky, Leetch and Richter really leading the charge along with Tikkanen too. It was no secret that the Rangers and most of the league knew that Messier's days as an elite player were over. The only person really who didn't know this was Vancouver owner John McCaw who was out for blood after the Cancucks lost out on Gretzky the previous year.
With this all in play Neil Smith and Rangers ownership agreed to let Messier walk. It was the direction afterwards is where they didn't agree, Smith wanted to rebuild, ownership wanted to replace. Smith hated the idea of the offer sheet but ownership convinced him it was a sure thing. On top of that to say that oh why would Sakic want to leave well as most of us know the Avs were broke and Sakic had won his cup in 96. At the end of the day it is a buisiness and well there was uncertainty in Quebec and now uncertainty in Denver and well again as most of us know Madison Square Garden had no problem printing money and I think Sakic knew in his mind he wouldn't need to worry about pay or uncertain ownership. On top if that New York had become a desirable destination in the 90s the ownership was finally treating the players well and the city itself was on its way up. Plus Gretzky was there they would have been lethal on the pp.
So the big question is what if and the aftermath of it all. For the Rangers well I don't think the dark ages happen but at the same time I'm not sure they win a cup. While Sakic was an upgrade over a 36 year old Messier and Pat LaFontaine (who was ultimately brought in) the Rangers were still a bit disjointed. They had made bad trades in the 90s letting guys like Doug Weight and Mattias Norstrom go for Messier's old Edmonton buddies(I know Tikkanen came back for Weight but they could have paid less). On top of it ownership and Messier himself overvalued Alexei Kovalev who could have been moved twice for Brendan Shanahan. A Sakic and Shanahan combo would have meant a cup or 2 imo. But if we go by semi irl do the Rangers keep Richter in 98 or if in better posistion go after Cujo. With Kovalev finally being given up on in 98 but them having 2 centers in Sakic and Gretzky maybe they move him and others in a deal for guys like Bure,Fleury, or Recchi guys Gretzky asked for. ( Smith didn't want Bure because of his knees).
For Colorado I think they run into problems. For as much as people hype Forsberg, Sakic was the glue of that team. With him gone who gets the c , I doubt Forsberg maybe Foote?? Idk. I think they maybe are a playoff team but not contenders anymore. On top of all of it Lacroix was very high on Lecavalier if he really coughs up all he has draft wise for him that means no Hedjuk,Tanguay or Drury. I'd say Hedjuk was better than Lecavlier Tanguay probably not Drury definitely not. So if you take a team in the late 90s led by Forsberg and Lecavalier and put them up vs the powerhouses in the west they're not better than Detroit,Dallas or even St.Louis. Which probably means no Fleury in 99,no Bourque in 2000 and 01 and no cup in 01 either. Which means does Roy bolt in 01 as an fa, does Bourque go to Philly and get the job done in 2000, does Detroit win in 99 and cap off 3 in a row (Detroit was the Stars kryptonite) and well do these same Avs become sellers around 03 instead of contenders? All because of 7 days in the summer of 97
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SoundwaveIsCharisma
Moderator
Why would pooling their picks for Lecavalier effect Drury or Hejduk? Both guys were selected in 1994
Didn't realize that. I do wonder if Espo would have asked for both or either
TheGreenTBer
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