hockeykicker
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Speculation: Samsonov vs Vanecek
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HTFN
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If keep neither isn’t an option, Samsonov. Vanecek crapped the bed too hard when it counted to be the grab bag that he is in the regular season. Neither should be relied on to do absolutely anything, but if you’ve got to keep a card up your sleeve at this point it probably might as well be Samsonov.
PainForShane
formerly surfshop
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Vanecek -- imo more likely to be able to pay him like an NHL backup and then be able to trade for / sign a starting goalie (like a John Gibson or Darcy Kuemper)
EDIT: Apologies, thought this was on the main board. I'm a random Zona fan just randomly contributing here. Don't mind me =p
EDIT: Apologies, thought this was on the main board. I'm a random Zona fan just randomly contributing here. Don't mind me =p
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CapitalsCupReality
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notDkristich
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V, as a backup. S is way less consistent and is not a starter. Burn it all down
Jags
Mildly Disturbed
I'd risk losing both by giving them to Dr. Frankenstein and having him disassemble them and build us one good one named Samacek, with Sammy's natural gifts and Vanny's tendencies. Then he can use the leftover parts and build a Vansonov that we can trade to the Pens for nothing as a bit of sabotage.
Hivemind
We're Touched
Doesn't matter if Scott Murray is back.
trick9
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I don't know. Samsonov has the higher ceiling for sure. It would suck if we traded him for peanuts and he started thriving elsewhere while we are stuck with Vanecek and Scott Murray.
But agree with you on that neither is likely to take significant step in their development while Murray is here.
HTFN
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I'm not really sure what's got the two of you thinking Samsonov is getting starter money or time. That's not a negotiation I really see the Caps losing at this point, I kind of assumed this thread was always about keeping one or the other as a backup almost exclusively.
In that context I don't know why you don't keep Samsonov because you can ride out some bullshit from your backup either way, but when you need one you probably need the guy who can channel something resembling high end.
g00n
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They've shown half-assed confidence in both. They exposed VV to the expansion draft but brought him back. They only gave Sammy a small 1 year "show me" deal and he failed the test.
Both started OK in the playoffs and then got worse.
I don't think you can really trust either one and neither is going to be your 1A netminder so I guess go with whichever is cheapest if no other backup options are available.
A true 1A goaltender has to be priority #1 for the offseason. Figuring out the backup may depend on that price and what happens with Backstrom.
Both started OK in the playoffs and then got worse.
I don't think you can really trust either one and neither is going to be your 1A netminder so I guess go with whichever is cheapest if no other backup options are available.
A true 1A goaltender has to be priority #1 for the offseason. Figuring out the backup may depend on that price and what happens with Backstrom.
OV Rocks
Registered User
Keep Vanacek he can be the backup for the next five years and I would be happy with him in net for 30ish games each year. He is fine, won't lose you many regular season games, won't win you any playoff games.
Trade Samsonov, he can be valuable in a package deal with this year's 1st to a team like WPG or ANA if we were to trade for Hellebuyck or Gibson. I think from Anaheim's perspective it makes a ton of sense because he fits their core age. Same with a team like Montreal.
Trade Samsonov, he can be valuable in a package deal with this year's 1st to a team like WPG or ANA if we were to trade for Hellebuyck or Gibson. I think from Anaheim's perspective it makes a ton of sense because he fits their core age. Same with a team like Montreal.
CapitalsCupReality
It’s Go Time!!
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Not sure what got you thinking I said anything about “starter money”……I’d rather pay the backup like a backup is all, and Sammy is overpriced for that role….
Trade one for pick(s) and the other with said pick(s) in a package for a goaltender like Gibson.
I also wonder where Fucale plays in. He's waiver eligible and goalies get claimed all the time, especially a cap strapped team who may need a league minimum serviceable back up.
I also wonder where Fucale plays in. He's waiver eligible and goalies get claimed all the time, especially a cap strapped team who may need a league minimum serviceable back up.
HTFN
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I had to go look, I don't know why but I was under the impression he made less. I get what you're saying now
my vote goes back to neither
Depends 100% of who we are bringing in.
If its meh-veteran goalie in tier of Holtby etc. who is going to give meh-level 1A/1B tandem thing for a season or two, im keeping Samsonov as he has more potential to break through the goalie voodoo and find a level of succesful nr1.
If its a clearcut starter like Campbell, Gibson, whoever, im keeping Vanecek as he suits the backup-role better and is going to be cheaper in the long term id figure. And has less value in a vaccuum aswell, if we try to find a trade partner.
But yeah, wouldnt be suprised that we move the decision further on because of all the question marks around the health and cap space.
If its meh-veteran goalie in tier of Holtby etc. who is going to give meh-level 1A/1B tandem thing for a season or two, im keeping Samsonov as he has more potential to break through the goalie voodoo and find a level of succesful nr1.
If its a clearcut starter like Campbell, Gibson, whoever, im keeping Vanecek as he suits the backup-role better and is going to be cheaper in the long term id figure. And has less value in a vaccuum aswell, if we try to find a trade partner.
But yeah, wouldnt be suprised that we move the decision further on because of all the question marks around the health and cap space.
trick9
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Curious as to why is Gibson is tier ahead of Holtby?
Last time they were both great was years ago under defensive coaches. Holtby was actually much better last season.
Can someone explain why John Gibson is an elite goalie and one worth paying the premium for? His numbers suck ever since 2019 and his backup goalie posts much better numbers. Obviously he has the easier starts but the difference in numbers is big. Is it really good enough excuse that you play in front of a bad team? Forsberg posted .917 SV% in Ottawa. Reimer .911 SV%. Both playing for terrible teams. How long leash does Gibson have? His last okay was back in 2018-'19 when he posted .917 SV%. His last great season was in 2017-'18 (same as Braden Holtby). He has posted .904, .903 and .904 SV% after Randy Carlyle left. In the last 3 years his SV average is .904. Darcy Kuemper for example is at .920 and he played the last few years before this one in Arizona. Cam Talbot is at .914. Semyon Varlamov is at .918. Even MacKenzie Blackwood is at .905 and his team sucks too.
It seems mind-boggling that he is still thought of as elite goalie when his numbers have sunk ever since Randy Carlyle left.
OV Rocks
Registered User
Felt like I have had to defend this for months now, Gibson's backup plays weaker teams, the guy has 4 wins in the last two season against playoff teams, and ironically they are all the Blues.
It is sample size, simple as that. Gibson is a top-8ish goalie in the league. The Caps don't need peak Roy, Hasek, or even Holtby, they need competence and consistency, something Gibson will provide.
Also give the guy a break he has played behind Cam Fowler and Kevin Shattenkirk as two of his top 3 d in the last 2 years. Not exactly the highest end defensive d-men.
As for mindset, I think goalie/system interaction can make any goalie hero or zero. Its much about who fits where stylistically. And to be honest im not sure Caps system/defence compliances our young goalies right now, and that might be actual reason they are holding back. They dont have the trust/confidence in their backbone. Goalies are much about feeling good.
Why I put Gibson in different tier is just the "overall status". He is still seen as a bonifide starter in public opinion, and is somewhere around the age where he could still be considered entering "at prime". Im not sure if Gibson would be the best option for us at all, but I do also see him as someone who has suffered from environment couple last years. Ducks have been a mess and Gibson has been left out to fight a battle he cant win. He might very well revive on a more competitive system and he has the track record of being a top-goalie in the league - while having lots of term to build legacy on it aswell.
Kalopsia
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And Gibson has 11 wins over playoff teams. Bad team doesn’t win much against playoff teams, no surprise there. Either Gibson wasn’t getting significantly harder assignments than Stolarz or he was winning them at a lower rate, cause that’s barely above the number you’d expect based on their relative number of starts.
Cam Fowler is a pretty decent all-round type, and it’s pretty convenient to leave out that the other member of the top 3 was Hampus Lindholm, and the 4th was Josh Manson. Do you honestly think that a top 4 of
Fowler-Manson
Lindholm-Shattenkirk/Drysdale
is awful defensively? Cause that looks better than the Caps top 4 to me. Looks pretty damn solid to be honest.
g00n
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I think there's some truth here but overall the Caps need to move on from "what if he gets better" goaltending.
Regarding system, the Lavi system is heavily reliant on PMDs who play a moderate amount of physical defense and activate offensively. The type of goaltender needed is someone who is good at handling the puck and at least better than average at stopping high danger or breakaway/odd-man chances. A goaltender in Lavi's system can't rely on a super tight team defense all the time (as good as they've been for short spans). That's one reason you have to look for guys who've done well even on bad teams, imo.
They also need a netminder who's been through a playoff series or two, if that's even possible to find. The Caps are hitting a wall in the 1st round and the last thing they need is another reclamation project for whom going deep is an unknown.
This is exactly why they targeted Hank and MAF. I think they know these things but got handcuffed by circumstances, and were forced to ride out the VV-IS express...which of course derailed in the 1st round.
Yeah, cant disagree anything here.
The problem as you marked yourself, is the avaivablity of what you are looking for.
Campbell as UFA might actually be close to best option. Cant see anyone else being avaivable for us currently. Quick maybe, but that is a short term option and in that case id prefer to keep Sammy onboard.
Interestingly enough, it seems that Gibson is one of the best at stopping high danger chances and one of the worst at low/medium danger chances. Just looking through Moneypuck at goalies with a minimum of 35 games, Gibson was 1st in High Danger Unblocked Shot Attempt Save %. He was bottom tier on Medium and Low Danger. He's good against guys around the net and breakaways, i assume. Bad at half wall and point shots.
My only questions is when is he letting those low danger shots in? During blowouts or a tie game late in the 3rd? Because that seems to be what it comes down to. Timing of saves.
SherVaughn30
Registered User
Campbell is a bad option to bring in and rely on him as your #1. He just played his best season in terms of starts(47). His previous high before that was 31 total games. He has had mixed results in only 2 playoff series. Campbell made $1.6 million and I believe is looking for $5 million per year. Leafs reportedly have been mentioned to offering no higher than $2.75 million. Grubauer just last season had his best season with the Avs, they let him walk and he got paid by the Kraken and it looks like a terrible contract now. Campbell does not have the track record of being a reliable #1 and he's already age 30.
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