Sam Reinhart vs Jake Guentzel

[Snippit]

Who is the better forward for the 17-18 season?

Click to read more...

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd lean Guentzel because while Reinhart isn't playing with Crosby, he is playing with some pretty top end linemates and Guentzel's production was pretty noticeably better than his production was. To question how much of it is due to Crosby is valid, but I don't think playing with ROR or Eichel vs Crosby is enough to compensate for the fact that Reinhart had a 49 point pace last year while Guentzel had 57 points in 65 regular season and playoff games combined. Guentzel's pace was like 23 points better per an 82 game schedule, that's a pretty significant difference.

 

[biturbo19]

Reinhart i guess. Two of the more overrated forwards in the league though, imo.

 

[Aladyyn]

Reinhart i guess. Two of the more overrated forwards in the league though, imo.

Reinhart is the most underrated player in the league...

As for the poll, I think it's a little unfair towards Sam to make it just about points. He has an abnormally low 5on5 sh%, played on a much much worse offensive team, and had the lowest puck priority on his PP unit. Statistically, his QoT was the lowest of all Sabres forwards. In terms of xG the Sabres were a bottom 3 team when he wasn't on the ice and top 3 when he was. His statistical impact in this regard was comparable to Patrice Bergeron (who had a bit of a down year, but still).

That said, Guentzel is obviously a great player too. To me it comes down to how Housley utilizes Reinhart. If Sam plays C I'd go with him. If he stays at wing, I'd go Guentzel.

 

[Snippit]

Reinhart is the most underrated player in the league...

As for the poll, I think it's a little unfair towards Sam to make it just about points. He has an abnormally low 5on5 sh%, played on a much much worse offensive team, and had the lowest puck priority on his PP unit. Statistically, his QoT was the lowest of all Sabres forwards. In terms of xG the Sabres were a bottom 3 team when he wasn't on the ice and top 3 when he was. His statistical impact in this regard was comparable to Patrice Bergeron (who had a bit of a down year, but still).

That said, Guentzel is obviously a great player too. To me it comes down to how Housley utilizes Reinhart. If Sam plays C I'd go with him. If he stays at wing, I'd go Guentzel.

It's not just about points. At least, I hope people are considering more than just points when they're trying to determine the better forward.

 

[tony d]

Give me Sam Reinhart.

 

[Fugazy]

Reinhart.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It's not just about points. At least, I hope people are considering more than just points when they're trying to determine the better forward.

Points aren't everything, but these guys are 2 primarily offensive forwards who can play both center and wing and the point separation between the two was pretty extreme.

 

[Not Sure]

Points aren't everything, but these guys are 2 primarily offensive forwards who can play both center and wing and the point separation between the two was pretty extreme.

Sam is a defense first forward. He plays a possession game and while he gets his points it hasn't seemed to be a priority. His shot was so bad they called him Muffin his rookie year, and most of his goals came off redirection and plays where he put himself in the right place at the right time. He will never streak up the ice and dangle through defenders, every time he's on the ice it's like a chess match, he's just always in a good position. Even when he gets caught in a bad position he seems to make the best of it.

 

[SnoopDogg]

the rhino

 

[Aladyyn]

Sam is a defense first forward. He plays a possession game and while he gets his points it hasn't seemed to be a priority. His shot was so bad they called him Muffin his rookie year, and most of his goals came off redirection and plays where he put himself in the right place at the right time. He will never streak up the ice and dangle through defenders, every time he's on the ice it's like a chess match, he's just always in a good position. Even when he gets caught in a bad position he seems to make the best of it.

He's not defense-first, he's just a two-way guy.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sam is a defense first forward. He plays a possession game and while he gets his points it hasn't seemed to be a priority. His shot was so bad they called him Muffin his rookie year, and most of his goals came off redirection and plays where he put himself in the right place at the right time. He will never streak up the ice and dangle through defenders, every time he's on the ice it's like a chess match, he's just always in a good position. Even when he gets caught in a bad position he seems to make the best of it.

I mean, that also describes Guentzel minus the muffin shot part. Both of these guys were centers who transitioned into wingers, so it's understandable why they're both high IQ players. Both of these guys are strong 2-way players IMO, but the biggest attributes both of them have are their offensive hockey IQ and their playmaking.

 

[La Masse]

Guentzel especially if he plays with Crosby all year. I think Reinhart hasnt lived up to expectations and while he's a good 2nd line player he won't be much more then that

 

[Aladyyn]

Guentzel especially if he plays with Crosby all year. I think Reinhart hasnt lived up to expectations and while he's a good 2nd line player he won't be much more then that

Well you're completely wrong...

 

[La Masse]

Well you're completely wrong...

Well he hasn't showed otherwise yet

In 2015/2016 he had 42 points in 79 games which is pretty good for a rookie
In 2016/2017 he had 47 points in 79 games.

Altough these are decent numbers,I would say pretty underwhelming for a #2 overall pick so to suggest he's anything more then a 2nd liner right now would be wrong

 

[Aladyyn]

In 2015-16 he was better than Eichel and led the team in 5on5 scoring even though nobody thought he'd even make the team.

 

[VoluntaryDom]

Id take Jake, close though

 

[jetsforever]

I think Reinhart will have a strong year

 

[NarcoPolo]

Reinhart easily for me.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Guentzel would be a nobody if he didn't play with Crosby

 

[The Moose is Loose]

The guentzel overrating is out of control.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Guentzel would be a nobody if he didn't play with Crosby

Yeah, Crosby sure elevated Guentzel into leading the entire AHL in production before he got called up as a pure rookie. Damn Crosby, sneaking onto the ice for WBS!

The guentzel overrating is out of control.

Or maybe Guentzel is legitimately good? No way it can be that.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Yeah, Crosby sure elevated Guentzel into leading the entire AHL in production before he got called up as a pure rookie. Damn Crosby, sneaking onto the ice for WBS!



Or maybe Guentzel is legitimately good? No way it can be that.

Not as "legitametly good" as Reinhart. It's overrating. Not that he is suddenly better than a 21 year old 2C with potential.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not as "legitametly good" as Reinhart. It's overrating. Not that he is suddenly better than a 21 year old 2C with potential.

Guentzel is only 22 and was drafted only a year before Reinhart, why are you acting like he's super old? Guentzel is a 22 year old top-6 winger with potential, so you're really not making a convincing argument here.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The guentzel overrating is out of control.

How is a player overrated when he's actually getting killed in a poll? I never really understood that argument. Doesn't a player have to be winning these types of polls before they become overrated?

Numerous polls: "Who is better between Player X and Guentzel?"

HF collective each time: "Player X, easily."

Random HF poster: "Guentzel is so overrated!"

Guentzel has become overrated because he keeps losing polls, apparently.