Salary Cap: Salary cap to increase ~10% next season

[Faltorvo]

Phaneuf is not likely taking a pay cut to stay as he makes $6.5 mil now.

7x7 ,,,8x6.125

Both contracts work out to 49 million total.

Only difference is your buying a year when he will be old.

 

[Semantics]

The cap is going up 10% and a lot of people are predicting numbers based on this year's cap. You need to take what you think the player could command this year and add 10%.

Phaneuf could get $8M now -> $9M next year.

Bolland could get $4.5M now -> $5M next year.

Only way I think we get them cheaper is if they take a home town discount or a super long term.

You also can't just ignore the salaries of guys we don't re-sign. They need to be replaced, and their replacement will count against the cap. So at the very least you're looking at entry level deals there, but more likely the average replacement will be something like $1.5M per.

 

[Faltorvo]

The cap is going up 10% and a lot of people are predicting numbers based on this year's cap. You need to take what you think the player could command this year and add 10%.

Phaneuf could get $8M now -> $9M next year.

Bolland could get $4.5M now -> $5M next year.

Only way I think we get them cheaper is if they take a home town discount or a super long term.

You also can't just ignore the salaries of guys we don't re-sign. They need to be replaced, and their replacement will count against the cap. So at the very least you're looking at entry level deals there, but more likely the average replacement will be something like $1.5M per.

What was the cap before that last lock out?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Dion at 7 X 7 would be a good deal.

Teams that want to be competitive have players that take less to keep teams together, and as captain could set an example.

It would be a fair deal, if I wanted to stay a Leaf, I would take it if I were Dion.

 

[Animal]

The cap is going up 10% and a lot of people are predicting numbers based on this year's cap. You need to take what you think the player could command this year and add 10%.

Phaneuf could get $8M now -> $9M next year.

Bolland could get $4.5M now -> $5M next year.

Only way I think we get them cheaper is if they take a home town discount or a super long term.

You also can't just ignore the salaries of guys we don't re-sign. They need to be replaced, and their replacement will count against the cap. So at the very least you're looking at entry level deals there, but more likely the average replacement will be something like $1.5M per.

Not sure if serious......

The cap 2 years ago was 70 million, so basically the same as it will be next season. You're telling me 2 years ago the going rate for a D-man like phaneuf was 9 million? Meanwhile Karlsson won a Norris and signed for 6.5, and guys like Suter and Weber got 7.5

 

[gabeliscious]

Dion at 7 X 7 would be a good deal.

Teams that want to be competitive have players that take less to keep teams together, and as captain could set an example.

i use to agree that $7 x 7 for phaneuf would be reasonable. i dont any more. i would hardly call that a discount. if you look at what most people would agree are the BEST/ top defenseman in the league, $7 million would put phaneuf in that category. i like phaneuf, and i think he is good and want him to get resigned but the fact that he was overpaid by calgary doesnt mean he should be overpaid by the leafs.

next season the top cap hits for defenseman as per capgeek are:

weber-7.875
suter-7.58
letang-7.25
campbell-7.142
doughty-7
chara-6.9
karlsson-6.5
pietrangelo-6.5
green-6
seabrook-5.8
enstrom-5.75
kieth-5.5
oel-5.3

its a tricky situation with phaneuf. he is undeniably our best defenseman but that doesnt make him elite. bozak is our top center but he isnt a top center.

i recognize that cap hits need to be taken with a grain of salt because some of these contracts are expiring and those players next contracts will be higher. some of them are also a few years in but have a few years left, and some of these players were signed as rfa so they will likely get paid on their next contract.

i can see the justification of giving phaneuf $7 million if the term was in the 3 or 4 year range. at 7 or 8 years it will come back to bite nonis in the ass just like the clarkson deal will.

kessel at least could make the argument that he is an elite offensive winger. kessel is probably a top 10 winger in the game, if not top 5. phaneuf is possibly a top 30 defenseman.

 

[Gary Nylund]

i use to agree that $7 x 7 for phaneuf would be reasonable. i dont any more. i would hardly call that a discount. if you look at what most people would agree are the BEST/ top defenseman in the league, $7 million would put phaneuf in that category. i like phaneuf, and i think he is good and want him to get resigned but the fact that he was overpaid by calgary doesnt mean he should be overpaid by the leafs.

next season the top cap hits for defenseman as per capgeek are:

weber-7.875
suter-7.58
letang-7.25
campbell-7.142
doughty-7
chara-6.9
karlsson-6.5
pietrangelo-6.5
green-6
seabrook-5.8
enstrom-5.75
kieth-5.5
oel-5.3

its a tricky situation with phaneuf. he is undeniably our best defenseman but that doesnt make him elite. bozak is our top center but he isnt a top center.

i recognize that cap hits need to be taken with a grain of salt because some of these contracts are expiring and those players next contracts will be higher. some of them are also a few years in but have a few years left, and some of these players were signed as rfa so they will likely get paid on their next contract.

i can see the justification of giving phaneuf $7 million if the term was in the 3 or 4 year range. at 7 or 8 years it will come back to bite nonis in the ass just like the clarkson deal will.

kessel at least could make the argument that he is an elite offensive winger. kessel is probably a top 10 winger in the game, if not top 5. phaneuf is possibly a top 30 defenseman.

Possibly top 30? So that implies that like, possibly not top 30?
It just amazes me how under-appreciated Phaneuf is.

 

[Faltorvo]

Possibly top 30? So that implies that like, possibly not top 30?
It just amazes me how under-appreciated Phaneuf is.

12 to 17 range, depending of skill set priority.

 

[Mess]

7x7 ,,,8x6.125

Both contracts work out to 49 million total.

Only difference is your buying a year when he will be old.

I followed the logic originally and understand the math = same $$.

However if you're a player and can get the same money for 7 years or 8 years why would you want to work an extra season?

 

[Gary Nylund]

12 to 17 range, depending of skill set priority.

I think it depends more on age - are we talking about the best defenceman at this moment? Or who will play the best over the next 7 years or so.

If we're looking for someone to play right now, I'd say he's no worse than 5-10. But that's just me, obviously it's more important for the Leafs to assess how he is likely to perform over the next 7 years or so which is a bigger challenge.

 

[Faltorvo]

I followed the logic originally and understand the math = same $$.

However if you're a player and can get the same money for 7 years or 8 years why would you want to work an extra season?

Ya my bad, what was I thinking, asking our Captain and supposed leader to make the smallest of sacrifices for the teams greater good.

What a fool am I.

 

[gabeliscious]

Possibly top 30? So that implies that like, possibly not top 30?
It just amazes me how under-appreciated Phaneuf is.

please excuse the hyperbole, he is definitely top 30 but i dont think he is a top 15 defenseman.

I think it depends more on age - are we talking about the best defenceman at this moment? Or who will play the best over the next 7 years or so.

If we're looking for someone to play right now, I'd say he's no worse than 5-10. But that's just me, obviously it's more important for the Leafs to assess how he is likely to perform over the next 7 years or so which is a bigger challenge.

in no particular order, i think the following defenseman are better then phaneuf.

weber
suter
kieth
pietrangelo
doughty
oel
seabrook
subban
mcdonagh
karlsson
chara
kronwall
letang
yandle

doesnt include the young up and coming defenseman who will probably be better within the next few seasons.

my point is that $7 million would make him a top 10 paid defenseman in the game but probably closer to about 6th/7th highest paid defenseman. $7 million + 7 years is too big of a contract to give him. i dont think he can possibly live up to that contract and will become the new whipping boy in toronto if he isnt already the whipping boy. giving phaneuf $7x7 will be as bad as giving clarkson $5.25x 7

 

[Purity*]

weber
suter
kieth
pietrangelo
doughty
oel
seabrook
subban
mcdonagh
karlsson
chara
kronwall
letang
yandle

Of those 14-dman you listed, it's highly debatable if some of those d-man are actually better than Phaneuf.

Under-appreciated.

 

[Mess]

Ya my bad, what was I thinking, asking our Captain and supposed leader to make the smallest of sacrifices for the teams greater good.

What a fool am I.

Well usually you don't see employees to offer to work more years for less pay throughout.

If Nonis offers 7 X 7 = $49 mil
&
If Phaneuf says 8 X 8 = $64 mil

Then the agent says lets meet in the middle and split the difference (Difference = $15 mil /2 = $7.5 mil)

=~ $56 over 8 years = $7 mil per.

Basically Phaneuf will agree to Nonis amount (per year) but only if he gets the additional year term.

 

[Gary Nylund]

please excuse the hyperbole, he is definitely top 30 but i dont think he is a top 15 defenseman.



in no particular order, i think the following defenseman are better then phaneuf.

weber
suter
kieth
pietrangelo
doughty
oel
seabrook
subban
mcdonagh
karlsson
chara
kronwall
letang
yandle

doesnt include the young up and coming defenseman who will probably be better within the next few seasons.

my point is that $7 million would make him a top 10 paid defenseman in the game but probably closer to about 6th/7th highest paid defenseman. $7 million + 7 years is too big of a contract to give him. i dont think he can possibly live up to that contract and will become the new whipping boy in toronto if he isnt already the whipping boy. giving phaneuf $7x7 will be as bad as giving clarkson $5.25x 7

I rate Phaneuf higher than some of those guys for sure, but even if they are all better than Phaneuf, I think you might agree that it's not like it's a huge gap from say the 8th guy on the list to Phaneuf at 15th.

I understand you don't want him to be paid loke a top 10 when he's not top 10 in your view but UFA status is such a huge factor - if you could somehow figure out what all these other guys would be paid if they were heading into free agency that would be an infinitely better reference point.

I disagree very strongly with the Clarkson comparison. I along with many others were shocked by the Clarkson deal, and I suspect that most of them would be as thrilled as I would be to lock up Phaneuf for 7 million a year. Phaneuf is the most important skater on the team (honorable mention to Kessel) while Clarkson is a grossly overpaid role player.

 

[Erndog]

I rate Phaneuf higher than some of those guys for sure...

Name names.

And I want to see more than one since you said "some of those guys."

 

[Gary Nylund]

Name names.

And I want to see more than one since you said "some of those guys."

I'm not interested in getting into a pissing match here. If you think all those guys are better than Phaneuf, good for you. There's no definitive way of saying who is #1, #2 etc. and it's somewhat subjective so where is debating this going to get us? If you go by play this season alone, I'd put Phaneuf up against almost anyone. If you're projecting over the next 7 years, that's tougher but I guess you could start by crossing Chara off the list.

 

[diceman934]

Dion if he will not sign a deal that pays him a similar amount that he is currently signed for should be shopped hard. At 6.5M he is at his value, but only this year and prior to that was over paid.

We have a lot of tough decisions facing us this year before then trade deadline and then again in the off season.

We are up against the cap now and will be again next year.....so cap management and player decisions need to be well thought out. A step back to move forward a lot in 2 to 3 years is in order.

Gone will be a goalie, 3 D-man possible 4, as well as 4 to 5 forwards. That is 8 to 10 new players required if we are going to improve.

We need 2 physical D man, a big center who can skate and produce and 3 big hard hitting tough forwards who can skate at the NHL level.

On Dion....we have a few offensive D man who if paired with a good skating Physical D man would instantly give us a top 4 that would be among the best in the League. We Keep Gardinar and Rielly and trade Dion and Gunnar/ Franson or both and resign Ranger and not Fraser.

If Dion can get 8M a year, I sure hope it is not us paying him that....

We have lots of good options on the back end that can slot in in the next couple of years.

 

[jboknows]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=695203&navid=nhl:topheads



This is good news for the Leafs. We have the following players to sign before next season (from capgeek as of 10/12/2013), listed in no particular order:

UFA:

Dave Bolland - Re-sign ($3.5 * 4). He's the prototypical 3rd-line shut-down kind of player that adds offensive upside. Can slot in easily as the 2nd line centre when needed. (Bozak/Kadri/Bolland as our top-3 I'm fine with). Wish we could see more of it this year.
Nikolai Kulemin - would like to resign, but regardless of our playoff position this year I think he's traded. In an ideal world, similar $ contract as now for another 2-years.
Jay McClement - Re-sign ($2.25 * 4). His work ethic is fantastic and he brings a skillset much different than other guys on this team. He is the kind of player I want as we start to bring up some younger guys to fill out the roster
Mason Raymond - will command more than he's worth and will walk as UFA
Trevor Smith - Don't care either way.
Dion Phaneuf - Absolutely must re-sign, unless his demands are outrageous. $7M for 5-7 years I'd be happy with. Any more than that and I start to lose interest.
Mark Fraser - Re-sign if he wants a cheap, two-way, contract, otherwise walk away.
Paul Ranger - Walk away from him.

As well as a smattering of AHL players (Staubitz, Lasch, Bodie, MacIntyre, and Smithson).

RFA:

Peter Holland - Re-sign; 2-way
Jerry D'Amigo - Re-sign; 2-way
Carter Ashton - See how he progresses this year. Showed a lot of promise early, but has been **** since. Would not be upset if we trade him for a draft-pick at this point.
Cody Franson - I'd be gauging his trade value right now.
Jake Gardiner - Must re-sign
James Reimer - Must re-sign (you can't have one capable goalie when we allow as many shots as we do. Need to strong goalies).




Again, a few AHL guys are coming off their entry level contracts next year as well (Abbott, Brennan, Devane, and Ryan).

Plus, cap hits for retained salaries for Ben Scrivens and Matt Frattin come off the books ($500K), and buyouts for Colby Armstrong and Darcy Tucker are finished as well ($2M).

Current cap hit is $64.3M, and as of 10/12/2013 the Leafs are pretty much right at the cap.

I won't start trying to predict what I think players will get in their next contracts. However, there is enough information here to start the discussion and there are folks on this site much better at that game.

Cheers!

On top of that, pray to God that Girardi decides it's time to move on from NY.

 

[MastuhNinks]

please excuse the hyperbole, he is definitely top 30 but i dont think he is a top 15 defenseman.



in no particular order, i think the following defenseman are better then phaneuf.

weber
suter
kieth
pietrangelo
doughty
oel
seabrook
subban
mcdonagh
karlsson
chara
kronwall
letang
yandle

doesnt include the young up and coming defenseman who will probably be better within the next few seasons.

my point is that $7 million would make him a top 10 paid defenseman in the game but probably closer to about 6th/7th highest paid defenseman. $7 million + 7 years is too big of a contract to give him. i dont think he can possibly live up to that contract and will become the new whipping boy in toronto if he isnt already the whipping boy. giving phaneuf $7x7 will be as bad as giving clarkson $5.25x 7

Seabrook lost his spot on the top pairing, no way he's better than Phaneuf, Yandle is purely an offensive defensemen and he scored a whopping two more points than Phaneuf last year despite being put in much more favourable situations. I don't understand why you'd have those two above Phaneuf, and I think that Kronwall and McDonagh are definitely below him too. Phaneuf is knocking on being a top 10 defensemen, there's the 'big 9' and then personally I'd give Letang the benefit of the doubt for his great production recently, but after that you could make a very good case for Phaneuf being the 11th best defensemen in the league, certainly in the 10-15 range.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Dion if he will not sign a deal that pays him a similar amount that he is currently signed for should be shopped hard. At 6.5M he is at his value, but only this year and prior to that was over paid.

We have a lot of tough decisions facing us this year before then trade deadline and then again in the off season.

We are up against the cap now and will be again next year.....so cap management and player decisions need to be well thought out. A step back to move forward a lot in 2 to 3 years is in order.

Gone will be a goalie, 3 D-man possible 4, as well as 4 to 5 forwards. That is 8 to 10 new players required if we are going to improve.

We need 2 physical D man, a big center who can skate and produce and 3 big hard hitting tough forwards who can skate at the NHL level.

On Dion....we have a few offensive D man who if paired with a good skating Physical D man would instantly give us a top 4 that would be among the best in the League. We Keep Gardinar and Rielly and trade Dion and Gunnar/ Franson or both and resign Ranger and not Fraser.

If Dion can get 8M a year, I sure hope it is not us paying him that....

We have lots of good options on the back end that can slot in in the next couple of years.

I would like to retain Dion as he will be impossible to replace. I agree though that it always makes sense to consider all options so I wouldn't say we absolutely 100% have to sign him but ... the problem is, if we don't resign Dion then we're pretty much guaranteed to be going nowhere for the next year of three and then it makes sense to discard guys like Lupul and Bolland and kind of start over again. Ricky Bobby outlined that cource of action very well so I am pasting his post below. The only problem with that is that we would like to get rid of Clarkson then as well and that won't be easy. I think it's clear that Nonis wants to win now, the signings of Bolland and Clarkson signal that pretty clearly and unless he is fired, he will resign Phaneuf.

I hope we get Phaneuf extended as well on a deal that makes sense.

With the cap going up significantly next season and the following season once the Rogers deal kicks in paying 7 or us is absolutely fine by me.

If we did end up trading Phaneuf than it would set us back a few years which means we should go towards a full youth movement built around Kessel, JVR, Kadri, Rielly. Trading Lupul and Bolland would than be necessary to gain even more assets as their win now players in their primes who probably only have a few seasons of their prime left.

Hopefully we just get Phaneuf extended!

 

[Faltorvo]

Seabrook lost his spot on the top pairing, no way he's better than Phaneuf, Yandle is purely an offensive defensemen and he scored a whopping two more points than Phaneuf last year despite being put in much more favourable situations. I don't understand why you'd have those two above Phaneuf, and I think that Kronwall and McDonagh are definitely below him too. Phaneuf is knocking on being a top 10 defensemen, there's the 'big 9' and then personally I'd give Letang the benefit of the doubt for his great production recently, but after that you could make a very good case for Phaneuf being the 11th best defensemen in the league, certainly in the 10-15 range.

OK wait, I'm confused here. You drop Seabrook, leaving 6 Canadian Ds

Does that mean he goes to Sochi?

Man we must be a power house if our 7th D is better then all other countrys D save for Karl,OEL,Suter,Chara.,

 

[Duke Silver]

please excuse the hyperbole, he is definitely top 30 but i dont think he is a top 15 defenseman.



in no particular order, i think the following defenseman are better then phaneuf.

weber
suter
kieth
pietrangelo
doughty
oel
seabrook
subban
mcdonagh
karlsson
chara
kronwall
letang
yandle

doesnt include the young up and coming defenseman who will probably be better within the next few seasons.

my point is that $7 million would make him a top 10 paid defenseman in the game but probably closer to about 6th/7th highest paid defenseman. $7 million + 7 years is too big of a contract to give him. i dont think he can possibly live up to that contract and will become the new whipping boy in toronto if he isnt already the whipping boy. giving phaneuf $7x7 will be as bad as giving clarkson $5.25x 7

Please look up the definitions of restricted and unrestricted free agents.

Routinely, UFAs get paid more than RFAs, regardless of talent, because of the different dynamics of each free agent class. It boggles my mind how only such a small fraction of hockey fans understand this.

The list you provided is essentially useless in trying to peg where Phaneuf lands salary-wise.

 

[The Blue Devil]

please excuse the hyperbole, he is definitely top 30 but i dont think he is a top 15 defenseman.



in no particular order, i think the following defenseman are better then phaneuf.

weber
suter
kieth
pietrangelo
doughty
oel
seabrook
subban
mcdonagh
karlsson
chara
kronwall
letang
yandle

doesnt include the young up and coming defenseman who will probably be better within the next few seasons.

my point is that $7 million would make him a top 10 paid defenseman in the game but probably closer to about 6th/7th highest paid defenseman. $7 million + 7 years is too big of a contract to give him. i dont think he can possibly live up to that contract and will become the new whipping boy in toronto if he isnt already the whipping boy. giving phaneuf $7x7 will be as bad as giving clarkson $5.25x 7

As usual there are still people who don't understand the concept of UFA vs RFA deals and the difference of cap when others were signed.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Please look up the definitions of restricted and unrestricted free agents.

Routinely, UFAs get paid more than RFAs, regardless of talent, because of the different dynamics of each free agent class. It boggles my mind how only such a small fraction of hockey fans understand this.

The list you provided is essentially useless in trying to peg where Phaneuf lands salary-wise.

Beat me to it.