Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Yeah, I got nuthin' ....

[Empoleon8771]

I'm conflicted about a Pouliot for Sheahan deal. On one hand, I'm still holding onto the slim hope that Pouliot can turn into something the Penguins need. On the other hand, I'm really tired reading all of the bickering about him and even if he plays well, he doesn't have a spot this year. I'd rather it be Kuhnhackl+ for Sheahan, but I wouldn't complain if it's Pouliot.

I'm also not sure how right Mackey is with this, I feel like if this deal was this close, it would have been done by now. I don't know if this is any different than what was said last week.

 

[ColePens]

I think the trade makes insane sense for both teams. Detroit needs youth and backend movers. DP needs a change of scenery after last year and quite honestly he doesn't have a fair shake here with the 8 dmen we have. He's most likely #8. That's not giving him a chance to succeed like we did in 2016 where he was very solid as a 3rd pairing guy w/ Cole before Schultz tookover.

And RS... we get the same thing back. Promise and an awful 2016-17 year. I cannot imagine how that trade isn't absurdly fair and perfect for all parties involved.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I've already said what I would do but then I get the standard bs replies. You will just spew the hindsight is 2020 crap.

I would have tried to trade Hagelin as $4 mill is a bit expensive. I would have signed Benoit Pouliout in his place for about $3 mil less.

With that savings, I would have gone after Hanzal.

Another back up option would have been to sign Dominic Moore as a replacement for Cullen.

In theory, I understand what you're suggesting. That said, Benoit Pouliot is horrible. Seriously, he is about 2 years away (at most) from being out of the NHL and never returning.

Hanzal is already hurt with Dallas. That should shock absolutely no one, unless you picked the over on when he was going to get hurt first. I would never allocate that kind of money to someone that brittle. We already have one of those (Letang).

As for Moore, who knows. We might be able to get him anyway if reports are accurate that Babcock likes Finnish rookie Miro Aaltonen as a potential 4C for the Leafs. Eric Fehr is also still in the mix.

So, we might land Moore anyway.

I'm conflicted on a Pouliot for Sheahan deal. I still have hope Pouliot can break out this year into a solid bottom pairing offensive dman with potential for more. But, they definitely need an upgrade at center and while I don't love Sheahan, he's certainly an upgrade and still leaves them cap space and assets to address another acquisition later if they need it.

It's not the type of acquisition I think they need, but it's fairly low risk unless you believe Pouliot is still a top 4 dman in the making.

I'm conflicted about a Pouliot for Sheahan deal. On one hand, I'm still holding onto the slim hope that Pouliot can turn into something the Penguins need. On the other hand, I'm really tired reading all of the bickering about him and even if he plays well, he doesn't have a spot this year. I'd rather it be Kuhnhackl+ for Sheahan, but I wouldn't complain if it's Pouliot.

I'm also not sure how right Mackey is with this, I feel like if this deal was this close, it would have been done by now. I don't know if this is any different than what was said last week.

I guess I am third on the list of people conflicted about dealing Pouliot for Sheahan.

I would not have a problem with it, and the deal would work out for us because Detroit would simply bury Pouliot behind cripple Kronwall, useless Ericsson and they still have overages with Ouellet, Sproul and Russo.

And yet, for whatever reason I still think Pouliot can turn into something with us. I always go back to two comparables: Derek Forbort and Thomas Hickey. Both took even longer to become what they've become: in Forbort's case a quality shutdown D-man. Hickey is more of a depth guy, I suppose. It is more likely that Pouliot is more Hickey than Forbort (not just stylistically, but also in terms of career path), but I still hold out hope. Maybe it's false hope.

And maybe we already have enough depth to not worry about a Pouliot deal. Who knows.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

If it's Pouliot for Sheahan and we're still on the lookout for a better 3C, so be it. RS is pretty low on my list for 3Cs, but he does provide experienced depth as a placeholder and could slide down to 4C if necessary.

DP has an uphill battle in terms of the numbers game right now anyway.

 

[ColePens]

If it's Pouliot for Sheahan and we're still on the lookout for a better 3C, so be it. RS is pretty low on my list for 3Cs, but he does provide experienced depth as a placeholder and could slide down to 4C if necessary.

DP has an uphill battle in terms of the numbers game right now anyway.

He's a placeholder and a possible solid young 4C. Realistically DP has a chance of being waived. Depending on how they want to go about things. Or he's sitting. The kid needs ice time. He's not going to have time to make it here unless he really takes off.

The kid needs a solid 10-15 minutes a night and there are teams out there who can offer that to youngsters when they are rebuilding.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'm not sure Pouliot for Sheahan makes that much sense for Detroit. The issue isn't that they don't have young defensemen, they just don't have good young defensemen. Guys like Ouellet, Sproul and Jensen really haven't developed into anything more than depth defensemen, which is where Pouliot is right now. That's why they have to sign guys like Daley to the contract that Daley got, they're just striking out on all of their young defensemen.

Since the 2008 draft, the only defensemen they drafted that became NHL regulars to some capacity were Sproul, Ouellet, Jensen and Marchenko. None of those guys would be playing on the Penguins today.

 

[888 98 twins]

Pouliot is either going to be waived or is going to force JR to waive a useful forward. There's no reason to not trade him. I don't particularly like Sheahan, but am willing to be open-minded.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

He's a placeholder and a possible solid young 4C. Realistically DP has a chance of being waived. Depending on how they want to go about things. Or he's sitting. The kid needs ice time. He's not going to have time to make it here unless he really takes off.

The kid needs a solid 10-15 minutes a night and there are teams out there who can offer that to youngsters when they are rebuilding.

Fair points. I like DP and Sheahan's far from my first choice, but the deal makes sense on a few levels so long as we're not viewing him as "the answer" for 3C.

 

[Captain Hook]

Pouliot for Sheahan is fine by me. Sheahan is at least a 3rd or 4th line center contributor, which we could use with the Cullen and Bonino departures. Pouliot just can't seem to get his game together and crack the lineup here. Not a huge loss.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Fair points. I like DP and Sheahan's far from my first choice, but the deal makes sense on a few levels so long as we're not viewing him as "the answer" for 3C.

How do you know he wouldn't be the answer for the 3C spot? Why not wait to see how he'd do here before saying the Penguins still would have to trade for a 3C even with him?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Did anyone hear the 93.7 the fan morning show last hour? Apparently Jason Mackey said something along the lines of Riley Sheahan for Derrick Pouliot very soon, just waiting on Red Wings to finalize Athanasiou contract.

Note: I did not hear it first hand, was posted on another Pens board. [delete if false]

That's a steal if we can do it. Free NHL players are always nice.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, I'm not sure why Detroit do this deal either when you look at their defensive roster. But then, Detroit puzzle me a lot, so I'd rule nothing out.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

How do you know he wouldn't be the answer for the 3C spot? Why not wait to see how he'd do here before saying the Penguins still would have to trade for a 3C even with him?

Anything can happen. But considering that Sheahan's projected to produce less than Cullen even if things break right for him and I wasn't satisfied with Bones' production on the 3rd, I think we should stay on the lookout.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Anything can happen. But considering that Sheahan's projected to produce less than Cullen even if things break right for him and I wasn't satisfied with Bones' production on the 3rd, I think we should stay on the lookout.

If you weren't satisfied with Bonino's production, you just have unrealistic expectations for your 3C

25-40 points is 3C territory.

 

[Shady Machine]

He's a placeholder and a possible solid young 4C. Realistically DP has a chance of being waived. Depending on how they want to go about things. Or he's sitting. The kid needs ice time. He's not going to have time to make it here unless he really takes off.

The kid needs a solid 10-15 minutes a night and there are teams out there who can offer that to youngsters when they are rebuilding.

You believe that Sheahan will be a placeholder at 3C? I'd like to believe that, but I'm really not sure. I could see Blueger getting the spot down the stretch over him if he continues to progress, but I think it's a little optimistic to think Sheahan will be acquired and then later they get a BETTER 3rd line center. It could happen, but I'm not sure that's likely.

I'm looking at Sheahan as the guy if they acquire him. If he continues to struggle like last season, they will make a change, but if he goes back to being a 25-30 point center, I think that's what we get.

 

[Shady Machine]

If you weren't satisfied with Bonino's production, you just have unrealistic expectations for your 3C

25-40 points is 3C territory.

Of course it is, but that doesn't mean we have to accept that as ideal. I want better than that and believe we can have it. I know people say "every roster has holes" and while that's true, this team could be in a situation where they have the least holes in the NHL if they acquire a higher end 3C.

Easier said than done to acquire one of those though.

 

[ColePens]

Fair points. I like DP and Sheahan's far from my first choice, but the deal makes sense on a few levels so long as we're not viewing him as "the answer" for 3C.

I agree with you that he may not be the answer, but I do believe it's an upgrade. AND I want to point out - we need to take chances on some young guys who have potential to fill the roles of Cully/Bones. We aren't going to get Cully/Bones each year. We need young guys to do that, too. So he fits that mold.

And I PRAY the Wild are out of it at the deadline and we trade for Cully.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Of course it is, but that doesn't mean we have to accept that as ideal. I want better than that and believe we can have it. I know people say "every roster has holes" and while that's true, this team could be in a situation where they have the least holes in the NHL if they acquire a higher end 3C.

Easier said than done to acquire one of those though.

The thing is, if we go for a 3C who will put up significantly more points than Bones it probably means one of two things.

1. We have a 2C playing 3C. I'm obviously not against this, but it's just not realistic.
2. We have a 3C who is getting a whole lot more offensive starts than Bones, forcing Sid to play a lot more defensive starts.

I'll take a 25 point guy we trust to take the lion's share of D zone starts over a 40 point guy who forces Sid into that role. Especially since the 25 point guy is likely cheaper to acquire and probably has a lower cap hit.

I guess there's a 3rd option: we're overpaying a 3C like Bones.

 

[cheesedanish87]

I'l be so happy once DP is gone.

I don't even want DP with the baby pens taking top pairing minutes away from the other younger def that actually have a chance to become NHL def.

 

[Henkka]

Yeah, I'm not sure why Detroit do this deal either when you look at their defensive roster. But then, Detroit puzzle me a lot, so I'd rule nothing out.

Kronwall's knee could be done, Witkowski was signed to play as a forward.

DeKeyser - Daley
Ericsson - Green
Ouellet - Jensen <-- Pouliot
Sproul

Pouliot challenges Jensen and Ouellet for a spot.

 

[Shady Machine]

THe thing is, if we go for a 3C who will put up more points than Bones it probably means one of two things.

1. We have a 2C playing 3C.
2. We have a 3C who is getting a whole lot more offensive starts than Bones, forcing Sid to play a lot more defensive starts.

I'll take a 25 point guy we trust to take the lion's share of D zone starts over a 40 point guy who forces Sid into that role.

Is that guy Riley Sheahan though?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Of course it is, but that doesn't mean we have to accept that as ideal. I want better than that and believe we can have it. I know people say "every roster has holes" and while that's true, this team could be in a situation where they have the least holes in the NHL if they acquire a higher end 3C.

Easier said than done to acquire one of those though.

That's just a problem of unrealistic expectations, though. The Penguins have won 2 cups in a row with their 3C putting up 3C numbers. I understand wanting the roster to be as good as it can be, but you're not going to have 4 lines of 1st liners. For the Penguins to get 2C production or higher from their 3rd line center spot, they're going to have to change how their 3C is deployed or add a really good top-6 center.

 

[Shady Machine]

That's just a problem of unrealistic expectations, though. The Penguins have won 2 cups in a row with their 3C putting up 3C numbers. I understand wanting the roster to be as good as it can be, but you're not going to have 4 lines of 1st liners. For the Penguins to get 2C production or higher from their 3rd line center spot, they're going to have to change how their 3C is deployed or add a really good top-6 center.

The Penguins had 2 3C's though and those 3C numbers were on the higher end of your range. Sheahan is a lower end of that range and there is no Cullen around.

I'm okay with a Bonino 3C and have argued that re-signing him is preferable to the Sheahan's of the world. Yes cap space, but there were ways to address that and I'd be happy to walk through that again if necessary.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Is that guy Riley Sheahan though?

I have no idea. But if all it costs us is Pouliot there's no reason at all not to find out. That's a free NHL player who is at worst a solid 4C. And we still have all of our valuable assets to acquire a better 3C if we decide that's what we need to do.

 

[Shady Machine]

The thing is, if we go for a 3C who will put up significantly more points than Bones it probably means one of two things.

1. We have a 2C playing 3C. I'm obviously not against this, but it's just not realistic.
2. We have a 3C who is getting a whole lot more offensive starts than Bones, forcing Sid to play a lot more defensive starts.

I'll take a 25 point guy we trust to take the lion's share of D zone starts over a 40 point guy who forces Sid into that role. Especially since the 25 point guy is likely cheaper to acquire and probably has a lower cap hit.

I guess there's a 3rd option: we're overpaying a 3C like Bones.

4th option. Bribe Dallas to give us Faksa.