Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Countdown to Free Agency (Cap Details + Links in First Post)

[Dipsy Doodle]

For the PP? That shot only really matters as a one-timer, no?

Not really. That RH shot really opens things up in terms of how you see the ice from the left circle.

I know some LH shots do well there, but Kessel added a whole new dimension we never had before, even with Neal. Do you know if that's where Skinner's generally set up on the PP in Carolina?

AFAIK, he wasn't even on their 1st unit last year...he was 7th in PPTOI/G among Canes forwards.

 

[KIRK]

I mean, you could compare that for sure, if that is what is there. But I just don't think, in whole or even in part that is true. Otherwise, I think you would see 2-4 new forwards starting each year for other teams. Not sure I see that...maybe you do?

Or are you saying other teams are not as likely to pull in a Sprong type to the NH, perhaps?

I'm saying that a team with 2-4 Sprong types in their organization (in the AHL, in juniors, or playing overseas) do NOT see Sprong specifically as having the type of trade value that some people here do.

 

[JRS91]

Not really, Not if they plan on using Kessel with Malkin full time.

They had a lot go right having 3 deep as far scoring lines go. And when they won the cup in 2017 scoring still came at a premium as the playoffs moved along struggling most of the time to score. I'd rather they had the de facto depth and scoring at will throughout the lineup than scrape and claw to win.

I do agree that they need a D-man more, but they need that depth throughout. Team being healthy isn't going to do that. They lost a lot after the 2017 run.

Guentzel, Crosby, Hornqvist - You just paid the man like a 1st liner, use 'em there.
Hagelin, Malkin, Kessel - nothing needs said here.
Skinner, Brassard, Rust
Kuhnhackl, Sheahan, Zar/Simon/Blueger

Dumoulin, Letang
Maatta, Schultz
Oleksiak, **FA?Trade**
Hunwick

Murray
DeSmith/Jarry

I tend to think that Kessel is going to play with Brassard. I could be wrong, but my assumption is Kessel plays with Brassard and Skinner players with Malkin. Swap Hagelin and Rust and that's what I think the lines would be to be honest. I'm not saying acquiring Skinner would be a disaster, he would be a big upgrade over Sheary. He also makes $6M a season. I'd hope that Carolina would retain at least $2M of that a season.

 

[Ugene Magic]

He did. But, a wrist shot isn't a one timer. The goalie has a chance to square up. So, it being a RHS is not an absolute requirement, because a LHS like say Skinner can take a pass and whip off a quick wrister as quickly as a RHS who takes time to settle the puck.

But that means the goalies have to be committed to the guy passing, otherwise, the LH left winger has to hit a perfect right corner across the grain perfect shot if the goalie is in position. A much harder shot to pull off regularly.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I'm saying that a team with 2-4 Sprong types in their organization (in the AHL, in juniors, or playing overseas) do NOT see Sprong specifically as having the type of trade value that some people here do.

Who has 2-4 Sprong types, and how do they value them?

I mean, there were very few players Sprong's age who put up anything like his kind of goal totals in the A last year.

 

[KIRK]

Not really. That RH shot really opens things up in terms of how you see the ice from the left circle.

I know some LH shots do well there, but Kessel added a whole new dimension we never had before, even with Neal. Do you know if that's where Skinner's generally set up on the PP in Carolina?

AFAIK, he wasn't even on their 1st unit last year...he was 7th in PPTOI/G among Canes forwards.

I followed. I was just saying UNLESS the RHS is firing off one-timers, it doesn't have to be a RHS in the left circle.

And, of course Phil added a different dimension . . . the only RHS we had before Phil in the left circle during the Sid/Geno era was Letang, no?

 

[KIRK]

But that means the goalies have to be committed to the guy passing, otherwise, the LH left winger has to hit a perfect right corner across the grain perfect shot if the goalie is in position. A much harder shot to pull off regularly.

I agree. But, again, the only thing that would necessitate a RHS being in the left circle is the one-timer, yes?

 

[AverageJoeFan]

I'm saying that a team with 2-4 Sprong types in their organization (in the AHL, in juniors, or playing overseas) do NOT see Sprong specifically as having the type of trade value that some people here do.

Without seeing him playing FT at the NHL not sure why others value him SUPER high, but I would think he is probably worth a late 1st round. He certainly isn't worth a Skinner. 2-3 years, who knows. But that's my take.

 

[KIRK]

Without seeing him playing FT at the NHL not sure why others value him SUPER high, but I would think he is probably worth a late 1st round. He certainly isn't worth a Skinner. 2-3 years, who knows. But that's my take.

There isn't a team in the NHL that would give a late 1st rounder for Sprong.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I followed. I was just saying UNLESS the RHS is firing off one-timers, it doesn't have to be a RHS in the left circle.

And, of course Phil added a different dimension . . . the only RHS we had before Phil in the left circle during the Sid/Geno era was Letang, no?

It doesn't have to be, but like you said in the following sentence, an RHS adds a different dimension so we shouldn't give that up lightly. Right now, the only options like that in the org are Kessel and Sprong.

 

[KIRK]

Who has 2-4 Sprong types, and how do they value them?

I mean, there were very few players Sprong's age who put up anything like his kind of goal totals in the A last year.

I was unaware that the A is the only place where prospects in an organization play.

It doesn't have to be, but like you said in the following sentence, an RHS adds a different dimension so we shouldn't give that up lightly. Right now, the only options like that in the org are Kessel and Sprong.

I didn't say otherwise. It's just you said we HAVE to keep one of Kessel or Sprong. I said unless it's for the one-timer on the PP (from the left circle), I didn't see why it absolutely was a must.

 

[davemess]

Its hard to put a lineup together at the moment, there are so many question marks about the balance of the lineup and who plays well with who.

To me the only spots that should be settled at this point are the below(although the Brass/Phil pairing is more a 20-30 game try out at this point)

Guentzel - Crosby -
Hagelin - Malkin -
- Brassard - Kessel
- Sheahan -

In an ideal world you probably put Hornqvist with Sid & Jake after last years playoff success but I think the lines work better if he is with Geno (and the Hags/Geno/Horny line was great at the tailend of last season).

Sid & Jake should be able to carry whoever ends up on that wing with them. I think you give Sprong first shot, just because his game is better suited to that role than on the 4th line.

Issue then is that it leaves Brass having to carry both Phil & Sheary on the defensive side of things and I am not sure that works.

Guentzel - Crosby - Sprong
Hagelin - Malkin - Hornqvist
Sheary - Brassard - Kessel
ZAR - Sheahan - Rust

 

[Ugene Magic]

I tend to think that Kessel is going to play with Brassard. I could be wrong, but my assumption is Kessel plays with Brassard and Skinner players with Malkin. Swap Hagelin and Rust and that's what I think the lines would be to be honest. I'm not saying acquiring Skinner would be a disaster, he would be a big upgrade over Sheary. He also makes $6M a season. I'd hope that Carolina would retain at least $2M of that a season.

I hope not, but either scenario isn't wrong, and retaining on Skinner will cost at least a 2nd rounder on top of it all. It's one season, make due since half of that is covered by sending Sheary to them. Current cap space is $24,488,290 and $21,488,290 after his addition.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Re: Sheary vs Rust. I'm not sure how anyone could watch both of those guys for three years, especially in the playoffs, and say it's even close as to who is more important. Sheary's talented and a good skater, but he's a literal nonentity when he doesn't have the puck on the rush. He's awful defensively, he's extremely weak along the walls, he's woefully ineffective as soon as the physicality aspect ramps up in the playoffs. The fact that the statlines are even close is crazy, because Rust is a meat and potatoes kinda guy who has shown a knack for clutch scoring, not big production. Sheary's the epitome of what we saw during the Shero/Bylsma era where there was regular season success but a disappearance come post season.

I don't know, man. Sheary's a must-move, imo. He's dead cap space to me after his third consecutive disappointing-to-awful post season. We need more Rusts, we need less Shearys.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

Look, I think it's worth mentioning one thing, Kessel might/might not be here in 2 years. If anything I would hold Sprong, if possible, just for that reason.

If it's a requirement for a Skinner and you KNOW you can sign Skinner long term, then I think you have to take that chance for winning in the shorter window.

Believe me, I DO NOT want to lose Sprong, but I understand the WHY if that has to happen.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I was unaware that the A is the only place where prospects in an organization play.

It's not, but it is the closest step to the NHL.

Who has prospects who put up comparably impressive goal totals in professional leagues? You're acting like a 21 year old finishing 2nd in the AHL in goals with precious little offensive help is nothing. It's not.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I didn't say otherwise. It's just you said we HAVE to keep one of Kessel or Sprong. I said unless it's for the one-timer on the PP (from the left circle), I didn't see why it absolutely was a must.

We both acknowledged that it added a different dimension and that Kessel doesn't have a one timer to speak of. I don't understand the disconnect here. It's a valuable option that we ought to keep.

 

[KIRK]

It's not, but it is the closest step to the NHL.

Who has prospects who put up comparably impressive goal totals in professional leagues? You're acting like a 21 year old finishing 2nd in the AHL in goals with precious little offensive help is nothing. It's not.

When did I say it was 'nothing'.

Typical red herring HFBoards argument.

I say Sprong isn't a big deal to other teams, that others (not ALL others, just others) have 2-4 guys like him (like him, in the 'how highly touted' sense, not in the 'they play exactly like him' sense), and that there isn't a team in hockey that would give up a late 1st for Sprong.

I'll put it this way . . . IF there was another team in hockey that valued Sprong like some, including you, do, then JR would've traded Sprong last season.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I agree. But, again, the only thing that would necessitate a RHS being in the left circle is the one-timer, yes?

I think that's a priority in either case. That gives the entire net open for shots all the time.

Just a little tibbit, Mario would collect the puck and still put it into wide open nets because he was back out a little further closer to the goaline. That allows for those pucks that need to be a little more crisp coming through the box. Goalies don't have a chance even if they have to stop them first.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

When did I say it was 'nothing'.

Typical red herring HFBoards argument.

I say Sprong isn't a big deal to other teams, that others (not ALL others, just others) have 2-4 guys like him (like him, in the 'how highly touted' sense, not in the 'they play exactly like him' sense), and that there isn't a team in hockey that would give up a late 1st for Sprong.

I'll put it this way . . . IF there was another team in hockey that valued Sprong like some, including you, do, then JR would've traded Sprong last season.

So who's like him? You made the claim and are now dancing around having to cite examples.

Sprong has a rare talent for scoring goals, and I sincerely doubt many teams have 2-4 players like that. Any who do likely value them considerably.

 

[AverageJoeFan]

There isn't a team in the NHL that would give a late 1st rounder for Sprong.

Not sure why. I doubt whatever they draft at RW would give them more production late in the first. at his age and at that level. Plus, pretty sure someone is going to sign him under a Mil for the next couple of years. It's always a chance, but production, ok size, decent speed, better 200' than he was. The Pens have taken some of the dev work out of it for someone, if not us.

 

[Jacob]

Trade Sheary for Kassian.
Trade or waive Hunwick.
Re-sign Rust to 4, Oleksiak to 3, & Sheahan to 2 year deals.

End of offseason.

 

[Shaffer]

But, IF we are trading one for a better player, then OUR preference should be to trade Sheary.

I thought that was inferred lol

But if a team actually watches our team, they should want Rust.

 

[KIRK]

We both acknowledged that it added a different dimension and that Kessel doesn't have a one timer to speak of. I don't understand the disconnect here. It's a valuable option that we ought to keep.

1. It's a valuable option that we ought to keep unless another move, in total, makes sense, unless you see who plays left circle on the PP as the end all and be all.

2. For the record, I wouldn't be looking to add Skinner. This team is charmin soft without him.

 

[KIRK]

I think that's a priority in either case. That gives the entire net open for shots all the time.

Just a little tibbit, Mario would collect the puck and still put it into wide open nets because he was back out a little further closer to the goaline. That allows for those pucks that need to be a little more crisp coming through the box. Goalies don't have a chance even if they have to stop them first.

1. A priority, not an absolute.
2. Is Phil now Mario?

 

[Ryder71]

I'm saying that a team with 2-4 Sprong types in their organization (in the AHL, in juniors, or playing overseas) do NOT see Sprong specifically as having the type of trade value that some people here do.

Which is why it would make more sense to keep him. He's cheap also, which would benefit us much more than some non cap limit teams. I think he does hold more value to us. I certainly wouldn't want to put him into a deal as a throw in, that's for sure.