Saku Koivu Retirement and Legacy

[Genesis76]

Probably a Top-10 C in the league (we'll never know, injury and didn't keep that standard afterwards). Of course a prime Koivu would be our 1st Center. Hell, a prime Koivu would be our 1st Center even if Plekanec would still be in his prime, which he arguably isn't anymore (offensive prime, that is).

Koivu could have been the 1st Center on a Cup winner team, as long as he isn't the cornerstone of the team, if that sortof makes any sense. But I could say the same about Scott Gomez, and have actual evidence to back up my claim.



I think there's is quite a gap between "good linemate" and "Teemu Selanne". We're talking about a guy who is arguably a Top-10 player of all-time at its position (and incontestably Top-15). I mean, if you're telling me that Koivu could be great with such a player, that doesn't prove much.

As for the 30 goal scorer argument, amongst those that weren't past their expiration date (Corson, Berezin and Linden), Brian Savage had prorated 30 goals seasons, Sergei Zholtok came damn close in spite of missing games and Jonas Hoglund had a 29-goals season after he left Montreal. Of course, he was also playing with a better player than Koivu. Valeri Bure scored 30+ goals after leaving Montreal.




Oh sure, a prime Koivu instead of prime DD and this team is much better. Hell, a prime Koivu instead of Plekanec and our team is much better, too. Nevertheless, there's quite a gap between "living legend" and "stopgap".

You realise Koivu was Finlands captain and Selane was one of his assistant right? for 12 years.

Selane had great stats no doubt but Koivu brought just as much impact to a team as Selane and when put together both had similar points.

I'm not trying to devalue Selane and what he has accomplished but Koivu was more important to us than Selane has ever been to any team. Selane is considered to be a living legend.

Koivu was a ppg with us in the playoffs

Selane? ~0.6 ppg

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Poor guy carried a garbage team his entire career, he should have been less loyal and left when he had the chance. Price should probably think about learning from Koivus mistake.

 

[Brainiac]

Koivu was a ppg with us in the playoffs

Selane? ~0.6 ppg

Nitpicking, but Koivu was 0.89 PPG for us in the playoffs. Not far from 1, of course, but not there yet. If he were >0.95, I wouldn't argue. But saying that 0.89 = 1 is just a little too much for me.

 

[MXD]

You realise Koivu was Finlands captain and Selane was one of his assistant right? for 12 years.

Selane had great stats no doubt but Koivu brought just as much impact to a team as Selane and when put together both had similar points.

I'm not trying to devalue Selane and what he has accomplished but Koivu was more important to us than Selane has ever been to any team. Selane is considered to be a living legend.

Koivu was a ppg with us in the playoffs

Selane? ~0.6 ppg

Take a long, long look at Teemu Selanne's career.
You'll probably delete that post of yours.

 

[Genesis76]

Take a long, long look at Teemu Selanne's career.
You'll probably delete that post of yours.

Nop I already did before posting my comment.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

... people will irrationally love Saku and that's ok...

People will continue to rationally love Saku for the even more numerous tangible reasons, too.

 

[attachetatuque]

i am one to argue for Saku's number to be retired, regardless of the fact that he never brought home the cup. He had everything we look for in a player. Toughness, skill, leadership, extremely high levels of compete, he gave it all, every game. I look at what he's done for the community, what kind of symbol he was for all habs fans. He is my all time favorite player. Make Gally choose a 3rd number!

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Koivu's definitely better than Pleks but Pleks has made it and taken the Habs farther in the postseason.

It's just how it goes, people will irrationally love Saku and that's ok - but when it comes down to it he'll always pale in comparison to real superstars.

This means nothing, lots of great players don't go far for reasons beyond their control.

 

[Habs10Habs]

People will continue to rationally love Saku for the even more numerous tangible reasons, too.

Well said as always OJ. I wish more posters would take a closer look at the man, and less of a look at the sad teams he played for.

He may not have been a Lafleur, a Richard or a Béliveau. But he was a great player in his own right, who always gave 100% and bled the Bleu, blanc et rouge. I will always have fond memories of the Lil Viking.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

People will continue to rationally love Saku for the even more numerous tangible reasons, too.

I mean irrational in that he's not a particularly special hockey player. His connection to the team and the city and its fans goes beyond hockey - for Habs fans to love the guy so much and want his number retired (!)... that's pretty irrational.

This means nothing, lots of great players don't go far for reasons beyond their control.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Koivu has no individual accolades, no team accolades and had an unremarkable career.

That doesn't take away from the man, it doesn't take away from the connection you or I may have with his image but it does mean that he's had a quantitatively unremarkable career. Looking at team success, one could easily argue that Plekanec has been just as important as Koivu (of course context matters, the teams were no where near as good as each other, etc.).

Even if he retires a Hab, I wouldn't rate Pleks as a Habs legend but I'm undecided when it comes to Koivu - there are arguments for and arguments against.

 

[Habs10Habs]

I mean irrational in that he's not a particularly special hockey player. His connection to the team and the city and its fans goes beyond hockey - for Habs fans to love the guy so much and want his number retired (!)... that's pretty irrational.


That's exactly what I'm saying. Koivu has no individual accolades, no team accolades and had an unremarkable career.

That doesn't take away from the man, it doesn't take away from the connection you or I may have with his image but it does mean that he's had a quantitatively unremarkable career. Looking at team success, one could easily argue that Plekanec has been just as important as Koivu (of course context matters, the teams were no where near as good as each other, etc.).

Even if he retires a Hab, I wouldn't rate Pleks as a Habs legend but I'm undecided when it comes to Koivu - there are arguments for and arguments against.

In fairness WS, Pleks was never once considered the face of the franchise. Hell there was never a period of time where I'd consider him the best player. So using him as a comparison to Koivu isn't a really good comparison to me. Koivu was the franchise for the majority of the time period he was here. While Plekanec was one of many solid players on the team during his career imo.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

In fairness WS, Pleks was never once considered the face of the franchise. Hell there was never a period of time where I'd consider him the best player. So using him as a comparison to Koivu isn't a really good comparison to me. Koivu was the franchise for the majority of the time period he was here. While Plekanec was one of many solid players on the team during his career imo.

That's fair. And you're right, Koivu *was* the face of the franchise. He will be revered, and he ought to be respected. We all loved him.

It's going to be hard to gauge his career and legacy though, we can agree on that.

 

[Habs10Habs]

That's fair. And you're right, Koivu *was* the face of the franchise. He will be revered, and he ought to be respected. We all loved him.

It's going to be hard to gauge his career and legacy though, we can agree on that.

We're on the same page my friend. My one wish was that management was able to surround Koivu with some better players. This way it would have been much easier to gauge his career and legacy.

 

[BB88]

This documentary had me in tears and I'm not a sensitive guy.

Was always the biggest Koivu fan. I still remember the game he came back from cancer, I woke up at 3AM to watch it, I was not in Montreal at the time.

He's my favorite habs player ever, no body will ever come close to him.

My username and avatar will always be dedicated to him as long as I live and am a member of HF Boards.

He deserves that, what a player, what a person.

I'm just now reading this and still feeling the tears.

As a Finn growing up and playing hockey there wasn't a guy who I loved more and respected more( his fight level).

It feels like there are no words to describe the respect I feel for the guy. Loved to see him on ice and no matter what video I watch of him it brings tears to my eyes.

 

[Vi Nc E x13x]

Koivu should come be an assistant coach for us

 

[Doc McKenna]

At the end of the day if you're not a superstar like Jumbo Joe, you're not going to be remembered fondly if you've had a middling career and no accolades.

Pleks and Koivu are on the exact same canoe.

Yeah pleks has been so clutch all these playoffs, oh and has never even come close to koivus .82ppg during the dead puck era regular season and even better in the playoffs..Sorry but the guy was great and scored a LOT of clutch goals esp against the B's

 

[Sir Jacques Demers]

Koivu was a borderline #1 Center for most of his career, Plekanec was always a 2nd/3rd defensive forward. There's really no comparison to be made with the two players, other than the fact they they became de-facto top line players for so long with the team. They each have their own merits.

What sucks is they were almost never in a situation to really play out their roles with a good supporting cast.

 

[Toastman]

You realise Koivu was Finlands captain and Selane was one of his assistant right? for 12 years.

Selane had great stats no doubt but Koivu brought just as much impact to a team as Selane and when put together both had similar points.

I'm not trying to devalue Selane and what he has accomplished but Koivu was more important to us than Selane has ever been to any team. Selane is considered to be a living legend.

Koivu was a ppg with us in the playoffs

Selane? ~0.6 ppg

I love Koivu, but Selanne was ten times the player Koivu was.

He scored 76 goals in his rookie season (still a record for rookies) and scored 1457 points in 1451 games, which includes three 100+ point seasons.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Koivu was a borderline #1 Center for most of his career, Plekanec was always a 2nd/3rd defensive forward. There's really no comparison to be made with the two players, other than the fact they they became de-facto top line players for so long with the team. They each have their own merits.

What sucks is they were almost never in a situation to really play out their roles with a good supporting cast.

So true, and the trend continues to this day.

I love Koivu, but Selanne was ten times the player Koivu was.

He scored 76 goals in his rookie season (still a record for rookies) and scored 1457 points in 1451 games, which includes three 100+ point seasons.

Selanne had "10X" the career, for a bunch of reasons, and that's why history will always shine the brighter spotlight on his journey. Don't think he was even 2X the player, though. Just better in his role/situation(s), and for longer. Their play and production while playing on a line together internationally over a couple of decades is more than testament enough to that. They never looked like different calibres of player when together on the same ice.

 

[Toastman]

So true, and the trend continues to this day.



Selanne had "10X" the career, for a bunch of reasons, and that's why history will always shine the brighter spotlight on his journey. Don't think he was even 2X the player, though. Just better in his role/situation(s), and for longer. Their play and production while playing on a line together internationally over a couple of decades is more than testament enough to that. They never looked like different calibres of player when together on the same ice.

The only aspect of the game in which Koivu was better than Selanne was heart, but that's about it.
This comparison is really unfair to Koivu

 

[le_sean]

Dat Zednik-Koivu-Kovalev line.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Saku Koivu is probably greatest captain what Team Finland ever had.
He's legacy lives in Montreal and i'm sure all hab fans remembering him for ever.

It truly sucks how GM Gainey let him go to Anaheim, Koivu should be retire his career in Montreal. Also it sucks how Koivu retired without stanley cup.
Hopefully Saku returns in montreal in future would be great to see him next GM of Montreal Canadiens. Replacing of Saku Koivu isn't easy.

Koivu's leadership skills were excellent and he was good rolemodel for younger players in Montreal Canadiens.
In Montreal Koivu isn't only former captain of Montreal Canadiens he's a royalty

Saku was first European captain in Montreal Canadiens NHL team
Hopefully Saku's game number 11 will retired in Bell Centre.
Because that number belongs top of the rafters.

 

[Hackett]

There are players out there that have their number retired for their impact to society off the ice as much, if not more than for their on ice accomplishments.

Adam graves is one that comes to mind right off the top of my head. Trevor linden is another, although his case is a bit different because he did set some significant team records prior to retiring (most, if not all which have since been broken), but his off ice impact is legendary around these parts.

So there is a precedent for retiring numbers for more than on ice success. Whether off ice impact should weigh into the number retiring process, that's an entirely different debate.

 

[Not The One]

There are players out there that have their number retired for their impact to society off the ice as much, if not more than for their on ice accomplishments.

Adam graves is one that comes to mind right off the top of my head. Trevor linden is another, although his case is a bit different because he did set some significant team records prior to retiring (most, if not all which have since been broken), but his off ice impact is legendary around these parts.

So there is a precedent for retiring numbers for more than on ice success. Whether off ice impact should weigh into the number retiring process, that's an entirely different debate.

Koivu was MY favorite player from the moment he was drafted and for at least ten years. I still have his BSG graded rookie card of his at my parents house.

That being said, he is nowhere near getting his jersey retired. Apart from being a nice guy and setting up a foundation, he turned out to be one of the least impactful Canadiens captains up to that point, considering the duration of his stay. Pacioretty his his foundation too and he's not even captain yet...

 

[habsfanatics*]

I love Saku, loads of talent, but rather unfortunate injury history. The poor guy had to suffer some really awful years here too. The only bright spot for many, many years, unfortunately many who refuse to see the big picture will put all the blame on Saku, this is ridiculous though, he was never given an opportunity to win a cup here, management failed him, he didn't fail them.

I feel the player, the person, the contributions to the City of Montreal, the skill level, the leadership, the commitment, ability to step up in big games all reasons why Saku's number should be retired. He was the Habs for over a decade, 2nd longest captain in history, but because his management staff was completely incompetent he won't be recognized for how great he truly was. How the hell does this make sense to any of you?