Rumor: Sabres trying to trade Ristolainen

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MarryMarner

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Mar 31, 2008
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Kasperi Kapanen - 3.4m
Connor Brown - 2m
+ a couple 3rd-5th round picks
for
Rasmus Ristolainen - 5.4m
Victor Olofsson - 0.760m

Easy swap on the contract side...

Rielly - Ristolainen
Muzzin - Barrie (Kadri traded)
Dermott - Hainsey
 

Moskau

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Jun 30, 2004
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...Because Risto was sheltering the utter trash that plays below him in the line-up on the right side.
Risto himself is also utter trash though. I know as a Sabres fan it was hard to remember what a good defensemen looked like before Dahlin arrived but Risto is a huge part of the problem himself. The biggest issues with him aren't going to fix themselves if he's suddenly matched up against 3rd and 4th line players. He got dumpstered by plenty of grinders last season because he's not a smart player.
 

tsujimoto74

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May 28, 2012
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Risto himself is also utter trash though. I know as a Sabres fan it was hard to remember what a good defensemen looked like before Dahlin arrived but Risto is a huge part of the problem himself. The biggest issues with him aren't going to fix themselves if he's suddenly matched up against 3rd and 4th line players. He got dumpstered by plenty of grinders last season because he's not a smart player.

Yet the sample size we have of him playing slightly reduced minutes with a more competent partner (his stint with Pilut) shows a guy who wins the metrics battle.
 
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Royal Thunder

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Kasperi Kapanen - 3.4m
Connor Brown - 2m
+ a couple 3rd-5th round picks
for
Rasmus Ristolainen - 5.4m
Victor Olofsson - 0.760m

Easy swap on the contract side...

Rielly - Ristolainen
Muzzin - Barrie (Kadri traded)
Dermott - Hainsey
I wouldn't include Olofsson in that deal. Maybe a mid round pick or a lower tier prospect... not huge on Brown either, I would be more interested in something around Kadri and Risto
 
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Moskau

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Yet the sample size we have of him playing reduced minutes with a more competent partner (his stint with Pilut) shows a guy who wins the metrics battle.
Do you not understand how terrible this makes Ristolainen look? 6 years into his career and there's one very small sample size you can pull out that shows he's above replacement level for the first time. The amount of minutes they played together was so small that if Risto reverted to his usual self for just 2 games the metrics would have went from positive to negative.
 

TheDoldrums

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Kasperi Kapanen - 3.4m
Connor Brown - 2m
+ a couple 3rd-5th round picks
for
Rasmus Ristolainen - 5.4m
Victor Olofsson - 0.760m

Easy swap on the contract side...

Rielly - Ristolainen
Muzzin - Barrie (Kadri traded)
Dermott - Hainsey

Kapanens not being dealt right after being a good soldier and agreeing to a reasonable contract. Also seriously doubt Risto is a Leafs target despite the obvious positional need.
 

tsujimoto74

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May 28, 2012
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Do you not understand how terrible this makes Ristolainen look? 6 years into his career and there's one very small sample size you can pull out that shows he's above replacement level for the first time. The amount of minutes they played together was so small that if Risto reverted to his usual self for just 2 games the metrics would have went from positive to negative.

It's not Risto's fault we haven't had a coach smart enough to use him correctly for more than a handful of games. Or a GM willing to give him someone better than Josh Gorges or Marco Scandella to work with on a regular basis.
 

Moskau

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It's not Risto's fault we haven't had a coach smart enough to use him correctly for more than a handful of games. Or a GM willing to give him someone better than Josh Gorges or Marco Scandella to work with on a regular basis.
Nothing is ever his fault.

True top 4 D don't need 150 lb rookie defensemen to make them look competent for the first time in their 6 year career. Period. Top 4 D elevate their defensive partners, not the other way around.
 
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tsujimoto74

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May 28, 2012
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Nothing is ever his fault.

True top 4 D don't need 150 lb rookie defensemen to make them look competent for the first time in their 6 year career. Period. Top 4 D elevate their defensive partners, not the other way around.

Yeah it's just disgraceful Risto couldn't post great fancy stats while logging top 5 minutes in the league on terrible teams with partners who generally look like they don't even belong in the NHL. I'm sure there are dozens of D who would really thrive in that situation. :sarcasm:

I don't consider it a huge knock on him that he's not one of the top defensemen in the game (which is what he'd have to be to have a great deal of success in the role he's been shoehorned into). He's still a good player. The data from the rare occasions where he's been used correctly bears that out.
 
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BowieSabresFan

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Nov 18, 2010
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Nothing is ever his fault.

True top 4 D don't need 150 lb rookie defensemen to make them look competent for the first time in their 6 year career. Period. Top 4 D elevate their defensive partners, not the other way around.

A true #1 D will elevate their partner, as I consider that part and parcel of being a true #1. Risto isn't a true #1, and no one is portraying him as that.

He's a second pairing D with good offensive skills, particularly if he is being deployed with the right partner, which is something you would expect in a second pairing defenseman. The issue is he has been deployed as a #1 defenseman, and thus overmatched.
 
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Horse McHindu

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With the Sabres recent acquisition of Colin Miller, I'm wondering if a deal could be made between Vancouver and Buffalo?

Something revolving around Ristolainen and Virtanen/Demko (or Virtanen + pick if adding Demko would be deemed an overpayment).

As a Canucks fan, I wouldn't be estatic over having Risto, but I wouldn't be worried either (like I would if we got Myers).
 

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Ok, so for those who don't see Risto more than a handful of times a year (or really any hockey fan Googling, "The Curious Case of Rasmus Ristolainen"...). Here you have it.

Risto is an offensive shooting d-man with a ton of secondary tools. Not including his great to sporadically elite slapshot, these include good skating, solid passing, some snarl, good to great vision, and an ultra fiery compete level. Where he struggles is when he's forced to play the kind of role typically reserved for the likes of Marc Edouard Vlasic, Niklas Hjalmarsson, Colton Parayko, etc. For the last... Jesus, I can't even quantify how long this has been going on now between our last several coaches... Risto has continually been matched against top opposition every night because there is little to no depth behind him in the pairings. This has led to him getting far more minutes than he should on an average basis. To compound things, the forward corps in front of him is unable to break up any sustained D-zone pressure through puck support, poor coaching, poor communication, what have you. The end result is Risto getting hemmed in, forced into dumb decisions (or periodically just making them because he's subject to making them at times... his hockey IQ isn't the best, but it's not the worst), getting hung out to dry, and getting obliterated analytically.

Risto is at his best when he's providing confident support for the attack. He needs an absolutely stout, solid (pick your adjective) LH SAH DD behind him to disrupt breakouts & dump ins, take on primary crease clearing duties (so that Risto only needs to worry about supporting that role, not carrying it), and most of all - cover Risto's ass. Risto likes to be a cowboy sometimes off the rush, and we get burned by it consistently.

So what does this presently mean for the Sabres and/or teams that are courting the Sabres for Risto's services? It means that any team with that kind of positive analytic, left side stay-at-home guy should see Risto as a potentially huge get to partner with that player. But for the Sabres (and personally, this is my preference), in lieu of shopping Risto, we should be shopping for that SAH guy to pair with Risto. We have one in the system (Samuelsson), but he's likely still a year or two away.

As complicated as Risto's case has been, I believe it is a relatively easy fix that the most incompetent facets of our organization have failed to address. We still have the opportunity to put him in a position to succeed. This is why I say - we don't have to trade him. If a team wants him, the above is exactly why we should be asking very high for him.

This is very good and accurate...

BUT, based on your own analysis, can you see why it could be in the Sabres best interest to trade him?

Rasmus Dahlin SHOULD be the main PPQB and needs that opportunity to round his game into an elite (maybe even generational) defenseman. This team belongs to Dahlin and not having him architect the PP is doing him a great disservice. Could you imagine a Nick Lidstrom, Brian Leetch, Sergei Zubov or Ray Bourque not getting top PP duty because of Rasmus Ristolainen?? That's the situation the Sabres currently face.

In addition, Buffalo acquired Montour late last season. What's his calling card? OFFENSE.

Due to his deficiencies, as you pointed out, Ristolainen is worth more to a team that needs him for his offense. The Sabres don't. Based on talent alone, Ristolainen is the 3rd most skilled player on the Sabres blue line... and his shot has even more competition today with the Miller acquisition.

So, the Sabres must be thinking... How is Ristolainen going to handle being bumped off the main PP and seeing his minutes chopped? Or are they going to just cater to him at the expense of Dahlin? (Which is exactly what Housley often did last year... and it was terrible from day one).

The Miller additon made Ristolainen extremely expendable, even more so after drafting Dahlin and trading for Montour.

IMO, the Sabres should try to deal Ristolainen in a trade for a better, yet older, LHD that is a stable, leader type, and a little more efficient in his own end. A Nick Leddy ish player.

Or, deal him for the best trade possible that addresses a weakness at forward. But the way I see it, if the new Sabres coach has any type of clue and utizes Dahlin properly, Ristolainen is going to suddenly become less effective, which might not sit too well with him.
 

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Nice try sneaking Olofsson in there, too. Hard no.

Yeah, that deal is absolutely horrific for the Sabres. A more accurate one would be...

A straight Ristolainen to Toronto for William Nylander swap.

The Leafs get a young, nice RHD with term to help support Rielly and the kids... filling a huge void on their team. The Sabres get a highly-skilled offensive weapon to help bolster their forward depth. Win-win. Especially if William could help his brother succeed.
 
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Carl33

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IMO, the Sabres should try to deal Ristolainen in a trade for a better, yet older, LHD that is a stable, leader type, and a little more efficient in his own end. A Nick Leddy ish player.
.

Lol so funny, if you get nightmare with Risto play and think you would be better with NICK LEDDY... big LOL there

I pray for Risto to get away from Buffalo ... big part of your fan dont deserv him

He play a lot of min on a bottom ligue team for 6 year, rarely had a true coach or D partner, Never had a no 1 caliber goaltender behind him... Carter Hutton? Really? What do you expect lol....

RR need a Vlasic Partner like Burns need one.

I wish he get traded, there is notting left in Buffalo for him, fans dont deserv him, so much trashtalk ....put this guy on a good team with a réel goaltender and he will be fine

Hopfully this end soon
 
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Liferleafer

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Yeah, that deal is absolutely horrific for the Sabres. A more accurate one would be...

A straight Ristolainen to Toronto for William Nylander swap.

The Leafs get a young, nice RHD with term to help support Rielly and the kids... filling a huge void on their team. The Sabres get a highly-skilled offensive weapon to help bolster their forward depth. Win-win. Especially if William could help his brother succeed.
Lol...come on. Any team trading for Risto is gambling they can teach him how to play D...because right now, he sucks at it. You think he'd be top pair here??

I would take a gamble on Risto...because our RHD is serioysly lacking, but i highly doubt he lands a Nylander level asset from anyone.
 
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traffic cone

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May 12, 2011
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Buffalo is a terrible team. And has been for years now.

”Risto sucks” -narrative is yet another example of Buffalo fans trying to avoid admitting that their team is bad as a whole.
 
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Dahlin 2 Eichel

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Sep 21, 2013
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Buffalo is a terrible team. And has been for years now.

”Risto sucks” -narrative is yet another example of Buffalo fans trying to avoid admitting that their team is bad as a whole.
Ah yes we love to avoid admitting we are bad. Should read our sub forum. Full of rainbows and sunshine in there avoiding how bad we are.
 

Ukkosenjumala

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Nov 24, 2017
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It's funny, people are always saying how the future of D in the NHL is all about puck support, offensive upside, being able to facilitate breakouts, QB.ing a PP and that "stay at home" guys are less valuable and you have a poster boy of that in Ristolainen yet supposedly nobody wants to touch him? Don't play him 25-30 minutes a night, give him someone that covers for him like they do with other guys like Karlsson, Burns, Bufyglien and countless others. Bufyglien is a great, somewhat recent example of what happens when you put a guy to play massive minutes when that's not his game to be some patient, minute munching safe D-man. When they toned him back down to 20-22 minutes, 2nd pairing and playing the PP, he went back to being elite. When you play over 25 minutes consistantly, it takes a huge toll on your body and mind and very few in the NHL can handle that.
 

43Kadri43

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Yeah, that deal is absolutely horrific for the Sabres. A more accurate one would be...

A straight Ristolainen to Toronto for William Nylander swap.

The Leafs get a young, nice RHD with term to help support Rielly and the kids... filling a huge void on their team. The Sabres get a highly-skilled offensive weapon to help bolster their forward depth. Win-win. Especially if William could help his brother succeed.

Abso-f***ing-lutely not. The Leafs would never, ever trade Nylander for Ristolainen. You’re going to have to find a team that completely ignores analytics and any form of scouting if you expect to receive an enormous overpayment
 

CupInSIX

My cap runneth over
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Dahlin Montour
McCabe Risto
___ Miller

doesn't seem half bad depending on how far Dahlin progresses in a short amount of time.
 

Liferleafer

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It's funny, people are always saying how the future of D in the NHL is all about puck support, offensive upside, being able to facilitate breakouts, QB.ing a PP and that "stay at home" guys are less valuable and you have a poster boy of that in Ristolainen yet supposedly nobody wants to touch him? Don't play him 25-30 minutes a night, give him someone that covers for him like they do with other guys like Karlsson, Burns, Bufyglien and countless others. Bufyglien is a great, somewhat recent example of what happens when you put a guy to play massive minutes when that's not his game to be some patient, minute munching safe D-man. When they toned him back down to 20-22 minutes, 2nd pairing and playing the PP, he went back to being elite. When you play over 25 minutes consistantly, it takes a huge toll on your body and mind and very few in the NHL can handle that.
Speaking only for myself....i've watched enough offensive minded D on the Leafs in the last few years to last me a lifetime. I will take an old school stay at home guy to play with Rielly thanks. Risto has a place on a lot of teams i'm sure, but the Leafs can't shelter his defensive blunders.
 

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but i highly doubt he lands a Nylander level asset from anyone.

A Nylander level asset? Nylander has never scored more than 61 points. Last year he had 27 in 54 games.

Ristolainen has scored 45 points as a D. He's scored 40+ four times so far in his career.

What are you talking about here? Ristolainen is as much as a top pairing D as Nylander is a top line W. The truth is, neither are elite, top line players.

In a perfect world, Nylander is a 2nd line W and Ristolainen is a 2nd pair D. However, both are used in higher roles on their current teams.

If a trade were made, Ristolainen would anchor the 2nd pair while Rielly handles the top pair. Nylander would be used to drive a 2nd scoring line, while Eichel carries the top line.

Not sure why you're saying "Nylander level asset" like he's Connor McDavid or Nate MacKinnon.

On what planet are 61 point, non-defensive wingers worth more than 45 point defensemen with a physical edge?

And then there's that 6.9 cap hit that comes with Nylander, which the Leafs can surely better use to bolster their subpar blue line.

But, yeah, let's pretend Nylander is Jari Kurri.
 

Liferleafer

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A Nylander level asset? Nylander has never scored more than 61 points. Last year he had 27 in 54 games.

Ristolainen has scored 45 points as a D. He's scored 40+ four times so far in his career.

What are you talking about here? Ristolainen is as much as a top pairing D as Nylander is a top line W. The truth is, neither are elite, top line players.

In a perfect world, Nylander is a 2nd line W and Ristolainen is a 2nd pair D. However, both are used in higher roles for their current teams.

If a trade were made, Ristolainen would anchor the 2nd pair while Rielly bandits the top pair. Nylander would be used to drive a 2nd scoring line, while Eichel carries the top line.

Not sure why you're saying "Nylander level asset" like he's Connor McDavid or Nate MacKinnon.

On what planet are 61 point, non-defensive wingers worth more than 45 point defensemen with a physical edge?

And then there's that 6.9 cap hit that comes with Nylander, which the Leafs can better surely use to bolster their subpar blue line.

But, yeah, let's pretend Nylander is Jari Kurri.
Here, i'll break it down like this, a young winger's job is to produce offense...Nylander's 1st 2 sassons being 60+ points means he does his job.

A young Dman's job? It's to defend, Risto sucks at that. If your selling point for a Dman is "Points points points!!!", it doesn't work for me. There may be a team that needs a D man that puts up points but doesn't defend, Leafs aren't that team.
 
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