Ryan Spooner - Part II

[GloryDaze4877]

Oh I agree bro, don't want him gone but my goodness he takes 1 big shh storm for every little thing he does wrong and to only get 5 mins each game to prove yourself ..ouch

Not even seeing PP time now

I know, that wasn't directed at you, just a little rant

 

[Alicat]

Putting in a place to succeed matters and your blind for not noticing this ! 5mins really that's time to succeed ? Give me a break ...so if Gagne fed him on basically his 2nd shift when he was busting to net would be talking now ?

What has he done to deserve more playing time? Last time I checked you have to earn it and he hasn't.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

What has he done to deserve more playing time? Last time I checked you have to earn it and he hasn't.

Griffith - 15 min TOI

What has he done to "earn" it more than Spooner?

Serious question.

 

[BergyWho37]

What has he done to deserve more playing time? Last time I checked you have to earn it and he hasn't.

Your unbelievable, switch your mind more then you pick a side. not explaining to you again

 

[Minny Shinny]

I'm not disagreeing with all of this, but what exactly has Seth Griffith done better than Spooner to "earn" a spot on the 1st line? From what I have seen, he doesn't appear to be any more adept at winning board battles and possessing the puck than Spooner does?

It's not a diss on Griffith, but other than shooting right, what has 53 done better? And this doesn't seem to be an issue with the other three RW slots? Honestly, if you want to find out if the kid can play, you may have to put up with some youthful mistakes, and give him more than 4 freaking minutes of TOI.

Love Clode, but he did the same exact thing to Sobotka. Slightest mistake...bench (or PRO). Pretty soon the kid is gripping the stick too tight and is too afraid of an error getting him benched to play the game. It's no way to develop a player or find out if he can play at the NHL level.

This is what I would do:

17-46-12/18
63-37-12/18
51-34-21
20-23-Pick your poison (CC, Knight, Griffith, Ferlin, Robins)

These lines are in no way a reflection on Kelly, who has been good, but it gives you a 4th line that can skate and play with anybody's 1st line if they get caught out there. Give Spooner a chance to play 12 minutes a game with a couple of talented players and use that 4th line RW spot to develop young guys with two really good defensive vets.

I guess I have some overall questions.....

....I didn't bring up Griffith because someone bumped the Spooner thread. I have my thoughts about Seth Griffith, but even if I didn't....why can't people (not you specifically GD, but in general) have an assessment of Spooner's individual play without referring to others (and especially other players NOT on his line like 53?) I see that "rule" applied to other players...why not here? My assessment above was based on 51's play alone and not in comparison to anyone else.

At the core of my opinion is that I've personally seen enough games from him to believe he, Ryan Spooner, isn't ready yet and that it's a number's game he'll lose in Boston. Pure and simple. Folks can disagree with that and that's fine. It's an organizational philosophy thing. Whether it's :clode: or Spooner's issue or a combination of both (which is most likely the best and correct answer, but people here love all or nothing thinking on both sides of the aisle) who knows. None of us have that answer, but a lot of people like to pass one or the other off as fact without really being in the room. That's fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

I believe him a tweener, and in some organizations that works on the NHL level. For this one, there's no room for a tweener if we're talking about a Cup Window...and certainly not one that's sporting a robust 0 goals in 32 NHL games (especially one advertised as an offensive talent). Shot percentage of zero. point. zero. If he's got a confidence issue, gripping the stick, ect, then maybe this organization, and certainly this city, isn't the place for him and he'd benefit from a few sessions parked on the sofa of a sports therapist. I don't know.

Like I said elsewhere...talent is talent and should be able to play anywhere. That's another statement that's been seemingly-randomly-applied-yet-not to other players on this team.

Anyhow, I'd touch the rest of your Griffith stuff in a Griffith thread on another day. All that stuff like work and adult stuff prevents me from doing so at the moment.

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

What has he done to deserve more playing time? Last time I checked you have to earn it and he hasn't.

Ali he has 0 goals in 32 NHL games, he's earned your respect!

 

[Stone Clode]

Griffith - 15 min TOI

What has he done to "earn" it more than Spooner?

Serious question.

Nothing, really. It's just that they didn't have anybody else that was a RW to skate with Krejci and Lucic, so he got it by default.

If anything, its mind-boggling that Griffith is getting powerplay time over Spooner.

 

[member 96824]

Spooner right now reminds me of the internship from hell I had. I was answering a guy's phones who thought I could do no right.

Now, I was 19 at the time, so of course some of that is very accurate. But I remember back to back days where I would get orders that directly conflict what I was told the day before.

I remember in the middle of trying to get this person a massive deal, one that would set up the rest of thr quarter very nicely "you're doing a good job, not a great one though."

I could have worked with that person for 30 years and never been comfortable in my own two shoes.

That's what Spooner reminds me of. 5 minutes of playing time, ripped and discredited to the media when something positive happens ("They were half an AHL team"....are you kidding me?)

Spooner stepped on the ice 5 or 6 times last night, one of which was for 4 seconds. None on the power play (where he's actually looked good and can be used to his strengths)

I say deal him, then blame him and no one else, since this administration has done such a fantastic job in the player development area...it's clearly all Spooner's fault. No need for any look in the mirror.

Thank god they were more patient with Marchand and Krejci or else we'd still be talking about the good ol' days.

Edit: I've crossed 17K posts, there is nothing good that comes from this

 

[BergyWho37]

Ali he has 0 goals in 32 NHL games, he's earned your respect!

36 games before Krejci scored, does he earn your respect ?

 

[Bmessy]

What did Griffith do to earn the original playing time that Spooner didn't?
I'm pretty sure they both put the puck in the net a few times in the preseason

 

[KrejciMVP]

36 games before Krejci scored, does he earn your respect ?

These Krejci and Spooner comparisons have to stop. lol Krejci is a franchise player, the Bruins are a lottery team without him.

 

[member 96824]

36 games before Krejci scored, does he earn your respect ?

I count 41...get your facts straight!

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

36 games before Krejci scored, does he earn your respect ?

All I know is that if Spooner had been selected 28th overall instead of 45th overall, the cries of "BUST BUST!" would be very loud right about now. But he wasn't the 28th overall pick, lucky for him.

Sooner or later, you gotta put the puck in the net as an NHL forward, particularly if you're not going to be hitting, PK'ing, playing that much D, or winning faceoffs. So when Ali asks "what have you done for me lately?", she's not wrong. Kid will get some respect when he's filling the net. Even 5 goals would be 5 more than he's gotten.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

I guess I have some overall questions.....

....I didn't bring up Griffith because someone bumped the Spooner thread. I have my thoughts about Seth Griffith, but even if I didn't....why can't people (not you specifically GD, but in general) have an assessment of Spooner's individual play without referring to others (and especially other players NOT on his line like 53?) I see that "rule" applied to other players...why not here? My assessment above was based on 51's play alone and not in comparison to anyone else.

At the core of my opinion is that I've personally seen enough games from him to believe he, Ryan Spooner, isn't ready yet and that it's a number's game he'll lose in Boston. Pure and simple. Folks can disagree with that and that's fine. It's an organizational philosophy thing. Whether it's :clode: or Spooner's issue or a combination of both (which is most likely the best and correct answer, but people here love all or nothing thinking on both sides of the aisle) who knows. None of us have that answer, but a lot of people like to pass one or the other off as fact without really being in the room. That's fine. Everyone's entitled to their opinion.

I believe him a tweener, and in some organizations that works on the NHL level. For this one, there's no room for a tweener if we're talking about a Cup Window...and certainly not one that's sporting a robust 0 goals in 32 NHL games (especially one advertised as an offensive talent). Shot percentage of zero. point. zero. If he's got a confidence issue, gripping the stick, ect, then maybe this organization, and certainly this city, isn't the place for him and he'd benefit from a few sessions parked on the sofa of a sports therapist. I don't know.

Like I said elsewhere...talent is talent and should be able to play anywhere. That's another statement that's been seemingly-randomly-applied-yet-not to other players on this team.

Anyhow, I'd touch the rest of your Griffith stuff in a Griffith thread on another day. All that stuff like work and adult stuff prevents me from doing so at the moment.

Some of what you are saying has merit IMO, but I would say:

1) The reason I am comparing Griffith and Spooner is that I see two similar players - both young, both inexperienced, both what I would call offense first guys (different styles). I see one getting 15 min TOI per game playing in a situation (line 1 w/skilled linemates) that plays to his strengths, while the other gets 4 minutes in a situation that is testing the areas of the game that I would not call strengths (4th line against "grittier" competition. Maybe this is by design, which I could see, but 4 minutes? You have to give him at least double that IMO to get an accurate read on what he's doing.

2) I think that "the situation" is something that IS likely a combo of Clode and Spooner. Clode likes "his guys" and Spooner clearly isn't in CJ's penthouse now, and may never be. For his part, I would say that the B's have clearly asked Spooner to do some things better in order to get more TOI and get his game where they are comfortable with it. Hard for me to judge how he's doing because I don't know what they are asking him to do better? I guess what I would say is that we have seen this kind of thing before, and at what point does a team/coach allow itself to live with the fact that a guy may not be the best defensive player in the world, but offset that with his offensive contributions?

3) Blaming a potential confidence thing on the player instead of the coach is a copout IMO. If Spooner was a kid that lacked confidence all along and showed the same tendencies now, you would have a point, but I don't think that's the case. I am not a professional coach, but I have coached enough youth sports and been in the workplace long enough to know that the way Julien is handling Spooner is definitely NOT the best way to go about it. For whatever the reason, Julien has created an atmosphere (for lack of a better word) around Spooner that is more negative than positive, and is creating a situation where Spooner is thinking more about how he can fail and do wrong than succeed and do right. I think that the way Clode handled the preseason MTL post game (where Spooner clearly did a lot of good things) was one of the worst examples of how to treat a young player that I can remember. Coaches need to treat each player as an individual to get the best out of them. Some guys need a kick in the butt, some need a pat on the back. Spooner seems (from the way he has reacted) that he is more of a positive reinforcement guy, and I don't see that happening. That's on Clode and the B's, not Spooner. If you are going to spend a high draft pick on a player, do everything you can to bring the best out of them and maximize your return. At some point, some of these players become "lost causes", but how can we say we are there yet with Spooner? I just don't see the B's doing their best to put him (and by association themselves) in a position to succeed.

 

[DominicT]

I think Ryan would have succeeded even at center but I am confident I know what is going on.

I know you know because you told me you know. But you know I know because someone told you I definitely know. The question is, who else is in the know?

When I think of Claude and Ryan talking, I'm reminded of Rocky IV when Rocky delivers his speech to the Russian crowd.

"I seen a lot of people hating me and I didn't know how to feel about that so I guess I didn't like you none much either."

"But if I can change......."

 

[BadBruins]

I'm sure management must discuss roster moves with Claude before they go down? Wonder if he pushed for Caron over Spooner? Spooner's line had some of the best looks early in the game. Has he made any glaring mistakes yet? He's kept it simple and hasn't looked out of place when he does play. I'm starting to buy into the idea that this might be a personnel disagreement between coaching and management. He's going to the the odd man out when Campbell gets back.

 

[remer]

Some of what you are saying has merit IMO, but I would say:

1) The reason I am comparing Griffith and Spooner is that I see two similar players - both young, both inexperienced, both what I would call offense first guys (different styles). I see one getting 15 min TOI per game playing in a situation (line 1 w/skilled linemates) that plays to his strengths, while the other gets 4 minutes in a situation that is testing the areas of the game that I would not call strengths (4th line against "grittier" competition. Maybe this is by design, which I could see, but 4 minutes? You have to give him at least double that IMO to get an accurate read on what he's doing.

2) I think that "the situation" is something that IS likely a combo of Clode and Spooner. Clode likes "his guys" and Spooner clearly isn't in CJ's penthouse now, and may never be. For his part, I would say that the B's have clearly asked Spooner to do some things better in order to get more TOI and get his game where they are comfortable with it. Hard for me to judge how he's doing because I don't know what they are asking him to do better? I guess what I would say is that we have seen this kind of thing before, and at what point does a team/coach allow itself to live with the fact that a guy may not be the best defensive player in the world, but offset that with his offensive contributions?

3) Blaming a potential confidence thing on the player instead of the coach is a copout IMO. If Spooner was a kid that lacked confidence all along and showed the same tendencies now, you would have a point, but I don't think that's the case. I am not a professional coach, but I have coached enough youth sports and been in the workplace long enough to know that the way Julien is handling Spooner is definitely NOT the best way to go about it. For whatever the reason, Julien has created an atmosphere (for lack of a better word) around Spooner that is more negative than positive, and is creating a situation where Spooner is thinking more about how he can fail and do wrong than succeed and do right. I think that the way Clode handled the preseason MTL post game (where Spooner clearly did a lot of good things) was one of the worst examples of how to treat a young player that I can remember. Coaches need to treat each player as an individual to get the best out of them. Some guys need a kick in the butt, some need a pat on the back. Spooner seems (from the way he has reacted) that he is more of a positive reinforcement guy, and I don't see that happening. That's on Clode and the B's, not Spooner. If you are going to spend a high draft pick on a player, do everything you can to bring the best out of them and maximize your return. At some point, some of these players become "lost causes", but how can we say we are there yet with Spooner? I just don't see the B's doing their best to put him (and by association themselves) in a position to succeed.

Clode is still pouting about Jordan being sent down to the AHL instead of Spooner.
Did we ever see Clode treat Jordan in this manner? He tried to do everything he could to make him succeed and he failed miserably.

Now he has Spooner which it is obvious does not a fit Clode's idea of a 4th line. Chia is the one that recognizes that Spooner brings speed and offense to a offensively starved team. Clode needs to adapt.

The 4th line did okay last night. Clode wanted Gagne moved up and that is what happened. He did not want to lose last night at any cost. Thursday's game on a back to back night against Montreal on their home opener is a for sure loss. that would be a 1-5-0 record and they would be calling for Clode's head.

So instead of trying to blame Spooner, it simply was Clode doing everything he could to win last night.

 

[DKH]

I know you know because you told me you know. But you know I know because someone told you I definitely know. The question is, who else is in the know?

When I think of Claude and Ryan talking, I'm reminded of Rocky IV when Rocky delivers his speech to the Russian crowd.

"I seen a lot of people hating me and I didn't know how to feel about that so I guess I didn't like you none much either."

"But if I can change......."

Dave Mason sung it best 'Only You Know and I Know' ....but in reality a lot know

cant wait to see the lines tonight

will Spooner even dress?

what about Griffith? can he play 4th line if Claude keeps Gagne up there?

back to back in Montreal with Claude playing only 10 forwards if he does not use Spooner much, or Griffith up on the first

I dont bet but I like Montreal big in this one....home opener, back to back Boston, some stuff going on in the Boston lineup that needs to be sorted out

Dom, question....how does Chiarelli and crew make an assessment on whether Ryan can handle full time 4th line center duty so they can deal Campbell to save another $1.6 M on the cap if Claude wont play Ryan so they can draw some form of conclusion?

 

[DKH]

I'm sure management must discuss roster moves with Claude before they go down? Wonder if he pushed for Caron over Spooner? Spooner's line had some of the best looks early in the game. Has he made any glaring mistakes yet? He's kept it simple and hasn't looked out of place when he does play. I'm starting to buy into the idea that this might be a personnel disagreement between coaching and management. He's going to the the odd man out when Campbell gets back.

doubt it...this has nothing to do with Caron. Nothing. Zero. Caron is done here if they could move him today they would and Claude would have no problem with it.

 

[DominicT]

Dave Mason sung it best 'Only You Know and I Know' ....but in reality a lot know

cant wait to see the lines tonight

will Spooner even dress?

what about Griffith? can he play 4th line if Claude keeps Gagne up there?

back to back in Montreal with Claude playing only 10 forwards if he does not use Spooner much, or Griffith up on the first

I dont bet but I like Montreal big in this one....home opener, back to back Boston, some stuff going on in the Boston lineup that needs to be sorted out

Dom, question....how does Chiarelli and crew make an assessment on whether Ryan can handle full time 4th line center duty so they can deal Campbell to save another $1.6 M on the cap if Claude wont play Ryan so they can draw some form of conclusion?

First off Dan, It will only save them $840,000. Someone has to go down When Campbell returns and if he were to get traded, someone would have to come back up so it's Campbell's salary minus whoever. I was using Spooner for math purposes

Now, to your question.

You think it's out of the realm of possibilities that first Griffith is only up for this road trip and it ends with the game in Buffalo and then he's sent back down? And then we see Koko? Then it becomes between Koko and Spooner? A little further far fetched: Pasta?

Think about that until game time tonight my friend

 

[member 96824]

I think Khoklachev makes much more sense for the 4th line, especially if Spooner isn't going to be used on the power play. His playing style would mesh better with Paille's.

 

[bolt thrower]

I think Khoklachev makes much more sense for the 4th line, especially if Spooner isn't going to be used on the power play. His playing style would mesh better with Paille's.

I would love to see Koko on the 4th line. Have really high hopes for him in becoming a legit top9 player for the Bruins.

 

[BergyWho37]

I count 41...get your facts straight!

I'm just a (rookie)Spooner on the HF boards to Brain O Krejci




Heading to the doghouse now

 

[BBB24]

What has he done to deserve more playing time? Last time I checked you have to earn it and he hasn't.

You may as well give up trying to explain this to some people here. Clode protects his kids with sheltered minutes in order to allow them to succeed in the future, not sure if Spooner ever will on this team due to dept at center. When a team is in a funk, such as the Bruins are, a good coach will force the vets to "step to the front" and work their way out of it, not the kids. Griffth was on the first line as a winger but in the third when things got tight, he put a vet there, great move, ensuring a kid did not mess up, if a mess up happened it would be on a vet, good coaching. Also I am not a big Clode fan, but I have always liked the way he handles the kids.

 

[bp13]

He'll be traded because Clode, and then go on to be very sucessful on another team just like the rest of the skilled, fast, players before him.

Hoping they stick with him and let him play and adjust but we all know its not going to happen.

Totally. Young players never do well here, only the vets.

Julien needs to stop telling these young players to be invisible. Also, I think he should kick some of these older dudes like Bergeron and Krejci off the top lines to give some of these younger invisible guys like Spooner more talent to play with. What has Bergeron or Krejci ever done to earn so much talent on their wings? And why do these guys get so much ice time?

From what I saw of Spooner against backups in the preseason and then last night during warmups PLUS that one time he touched the puck, I think he's an All-Star being held back by a crap coach. Seems obvious to me.