Prospect Info: Ryan Poehling (Part 6 - Recalled to the NHL)

[Toene]

The problem with the prospects/young players development approach since MT is not that they dont get a chance or are never tried. Some even see the PP and top-6 as the greenest rookies. The problem imo is that they dont get a long enough look in serious roles.

Like with Galchenyuk? A few games here and there on the top-line where he would showcase great things, eventually slow down a bit, then demoted to an aging Plekanec's wing for months, rinse and repeat. Never any time to absorb the new role and the growing pains that come with it. I dont want to spark an AG debate, he had his flaws but you know what pattern I'm reffering to.

We need to give these talented kids the keys of the bus instead of throwing them under it. If they are high-end, they're used to being leaders since early youth until junior. They can take pressure on their shoulders and you've GOT to keep them hungry. You look them in the eyes and you say that tonight, and next game, and the one after, an so on, you want them to go out there and score a hat-trick, or two, and that you expect this state of mind every freaking night. Boost their ego and unleash them. Eat the opponents alive. Stop being worried about that potential isolated turnover and just let them be what we want them to become. Ffs.

This year I want Kotkaniemi on most first waves of the PP, 18 minutes a night minimum, with tolerable top-6 wingers. If not, Ill turn off the TV and watch something else.

 

[aresknights]

I also think that no matter who the player, it would be a fine start to a pro career to get experience without the pressure of being under a microscope. It has been a great development league that has certainly sent some fine players to the NHL, I believe in it. Tomas Plekanec spent nearly 4 years there and went on to have a good career, just one example.

Works for some, not others. Im definitely in the every situation is unique camp. Some people always think AHL is right for a prospect (joe thorton turned out ok despite limited minutes as a rookie as have many others)
No way to revisit either decision (AHL/NHL) on any prospect, as its a one or the other thing. So you cant say one way is better in any single situation. As you never see both scenarios.
For every Plekanec there is an example of an AHL flame out or a straight to NHL player that made it.

In regards to Poehling its not like he is an 18 yr old D+1 player either.
Ive always said said let them earn it at camp/preseason or not. It sends a bad message if you are a top 12 F/top 6D in camp and pre season, can fill a role on a team and they select a lesser talent. Bad optics n message. I know it happens from peewee to pros but its not good IMO. Sorry you were better than XYZ but we are sending you down? That can be tough on a kid as well.

Take the best in camp, if you find they are in too deep come Oct/Nov/whatever.....send them down.

JMO

 

[OldCraig71]

Works for some, not others. Im definitely in the every situation is unique camp. Some people always think AHL is right for a prospect (joe thorton turned out ok despite limited minutes as a rookie as have many others)
No way to revisit either decision (AHL/NHL) on any prospect, as its a one or the other thing. So you cant say one way is better in any single situation. As you never see both scenarios.
For every Plekanec there is an example of an AHL flame out or a straight to NHL player that made it.

In regards to Poehling its not like he is an 18 yr old D+1 player either.
Ive always said said let them earn it at camp/preseason or not. It sends a bad message if you are a top 12 F/top 6D in camp and pre season, can fill a role on a team and they select a lesser talent. Bad optics n message. I know it happens from peewee to pros but its not good IMO. Sorry you were better than XYZ but we are sending you down? That can be tough on a kid as well.

Take the best in camp, if you find they are in too deep come Oct/Nov/whatever.....send them down.

JMO

I have no problem with having a young player make the team out of camp as opposed to being sent to the AHL but I have trouble understanding why for example a potential top 6 player is retained on the NHL team only to be used on the 4th line. I would rather have that young player go to the AHL and play a top 6 role and flourish there as opposed to having him play 5-7 minutes a night of "risk" free hockey. It kills creativity in a young player. I don't understand the motive behind that.

 

[OldCraig71]

The problem with the prospects/young players development approach since MT is not that they dont get a chance or are never tried. Some even see the PP and top-6 as the greenest rookies. The problem imo is that they dont get a long enough look in serious roles.

Like with Galchenyuk? A few games here and there on the top-line where he would showcase great things, eventually slow down a bit, then demoted to an aging Plekanec's wing for months, rinse and repeat. Never any time to absorb the new role and the growing pains that come with it. I dont want to spark an AG debate, he had his flaws but you know what pattern I'm reffering to.

We need to give these talented kids the keys of the bus instead of throwing them under it. If they are high-end, they're used to being leaders since early youth until junior. They can take pressure on their shoulders and you've GOT to keep them hungry. You look them in the eyes and you say that tonight, and next game, and the one after, an so on, you want them to go out there and score a hat-trick, or two, and that you expect this state of mind every freaking night. Boost their ego and unleash them. Eat the opponents alive. Stop being worried about that potential isolated turnover and just let them be what we want them to become. Ffs.

This year I want Kotkaniemi on most first waves of the PP, 18 minutes a night minimum, with tolerable top-6 wingers. If not, Ill turn off the TV and watch something else.

I only saw this after my reply to another post and we agree 100 percent but you said it better than I ever could, beautiful post.

 

[Mrb1p]

Works for some, not others. Im definitely in the every situation is unique camp. Some people always think AHL is right for a prospect (joe thorton turned out ok despite limited minutes as a rookie as have many others)
No way to revisit either decision (AHL/NHL) on any prospect, as its a one or the other thing. So you cant say one way is better in any single situation. As you never see both scenarios.
For every Plekanec there is an example of an AHL flame out or a straight to NHL player that made it.

In regards to Poehling its not like he is an 18 yr old D+1 player either.
Ive always said said let them earn it at camp/preseason or not. It sends a bad message if you are a top 12 F/top 6D in camp and pre season, can fill a role on a team and they select a lesser talent. Bad optics n message. I know it happens from peewee to pros but its not good IMO. Sorry you were better than XYZ but we are sending you down? That can be tough on a kid as well.

Take the best in camp, if you find they are in too deep come Oct/Nov/whatever.....send them down.

JMO

I dont think sending players back down is wise at all. It just means they werent ready to start with, so you misjudged there. Id rather see a player be overripe than see a player struggle too much in the NHL.

 

[ottawa]

So Poehling is No.1 on our HFBoard prospect list.

How is he a better prospect than Kotkaniemi?

Did you go into a coma and miss the entire last season where Kotkaniemi played 79 games? He's considered graduated.

 

[JuJu Mobb]

Did you go into a coma and miss the entire last season where Kotkaniemi played 79 games? He's considered graduated.

Nah, I thought HF prospect rankings was for players under 23 for some reason.

 

[ottawa]

Nah, I thought HF prospect rankings was for players under 23 for some reason.

There's an age and/or game cap.

I think the official HF rankings state under the age of 24 (might be off on this) or less than 25 NHL games played

 

[The Great Weal]

is there Fan who are more hype on Suzuki than Poehling ? I'm interested to know what our fans think

Poehling IMO is a power center who is amazing in his own end and drive plays
Suzuki is more of a highly cerebral playmaking winger who slows the game down when he is on the ice.

I have Suzuki as our best prospect. Elite IQ, elite skill, deadly shot, high end playmaking, seems to have a good attitude. I can't see him not succeeding with that combination. Skating "issues" are severely exaggerated, I seriously doubt it will hold him back like Hudon.

 

[Sorinth]

Ive always said said let them earn it at camp/preseason or not. It sends a bad message if you are a top 12 F/top 6D in camp and pre season, can fill a role on a team and they select a lesser talent. Bad optics n message. I know it happens from peewee to pros but its not good IMO. Sorry you were better than XYZ but we are sending you down? That can be tough on a kid as well.

Take the best in camp, if you find they are in too deep come Oct/Nov/whatever.....send them down.

JMO

I'm not sure that's true. I'm sure you remember Pacioretty's comments about how he'd rather play top minutes in the AHL then bottom line minutes in the NHL. If you communicate well with prospects then sending them down despite them being better then some random 4th liner isn't always going to be sending the wrong message. But the key is how you communicate the message. And in that regard I have little faith in our current management group.

 

[aresknights]

I dont think sending players back down is wise at all. It just means they werent ready to start with, so you misjudged there. Id rather see a player be overripe than see a player struggle too much in the NHL.

If they earn it in camp they deserve the shot. JMO.
Things change. No biggie.
There have been players who have had 1/2/3 good years than regress for a number of reasons. Does that mean they weren't ready?
Things aren't linear with a players development and every situation is unique.


With the Patch example given by another poster.... That was his choice, telling me his mental state at that time was more suited to the minors and it worked out great for him. Not a bad thing. The opposite actually.
Good communication was key there.

 

[BLONG7]

I have no problem with having a young player make the team out of camp as opposed to being sent to the AHL but I have trouble understanding why for example a potential top 6 player is retained on the NHL team only to be used on the 4th line. I would rather have that young player go to the AHL and play a top 6 role and flourish there as opposed to having him play 5-7 minutes a night of "risk" free hockey. It kills creativity in a young player. I don't understand the motive behind that.

This!!! The Habs have been destroying their kids for years, with this crazy way of doing things..............it's not like we are the 70's habs, where there is ONE spot open on the team, and we have just won the Cup 6 out of the past 8 years.

If a kid has the talent to be in the top 6 during his hockey career, then use him in the top 6 as he joins your organization. What we have been doing is antiquated, and definitely not working.

 

[BLONG7]

The problem with the prospects/young players development approach since MT is not that they dont get a chance or are never tried. Some even see the PP and top-6 as the greenest rookies. The problem imo is that they dont get a long enough look in serious roles.

Like with Galchenyuk? A few games here and there on the top-line where he would showcase great things, eventually slow down a bit, then demoted to an aging Plekanec's wing for months, rinse and repeat. Never any time to absorb the new role and the growing pains that come with it. I dont want to spark an AG debate, he had his flaws but you know what pattern I'm reffering to.

We need to give these talented kids the keys of the bus instead of throwing them under it. If they are high-end, they're used to being leaders since early youth until junior. They can take pressure on their shoulders and you've GOT to keep them hungry. You look them in the eyes and you say that tonight, and next game, and the one after, an so on, you want them to go out there and score a hat-trick, or two, and that you expect this state of mind every freaking night. Boost their ego and unleash them. Eat the opponents alive. Stop being worried about that potential isolated turnover and just let them be what we want them to become. Ffs.

This year I want Kotkaniemi on most first waves of the PP, 18 minutes a night minimum, with tolerable top-6 wingers. If not, Ill turn off the TV and watch something else.

In the words of Mike Trout.................Let the Kids Play!!!!!!!
Excellent post.

 

[Runner77]

What is best for Poehling on the big club?

Minutes. I'm not sure he's going to get enough of them if he makes the team.

He'd be much better off playing first line minutes in Laval and be a first call-up when a spot becomes available.

 

[Baksfamous112]

But is playing 4th line best for his development? I don't see him beating Tatar, Drouin, Gallagher, Armia, Lehkonen, KK, Domi, Danault or Byron. Playing lots of minutes (including PP) with real (AHL level) offensive threat might be better for him than playing with Weal and Cousins and maybe getting some PK.

I don't think Julien will look at it as what's best for Poehling, so I could certainly see him as our 4th line center.

Julien likes to play all of his lines. The real question is will Poehling develop faster playing 17-18 minutes a night in the AHL against easier competition or 12-13 minutes a night in the NHL against (and practicing with) the best players in the league.

I’m torn between the two.

 

[Vachon23]

Julien likes to play all of his lines. The real question is will Poehling develop faster playing 17-18 minutes a night in the AHL against easier competition or 12-13 minutes a night in the NHL against (and practicing with) the best players in the league.

I’m torn between the two.

For Poehling he will learn more in the NHL I think . He is playing like a pro and he is physically ready. I don’t think he would learn that much in the AHL.

But if you ask me the question for Suzuki him I think he would be better starting in the AHL player 1st line Center.

 

[Runner77]

I wonder how many minutes a first line player could get in Laval? Is it closer to 18 or 25?

 

[Baksfamous112]

For Poehling he will learn more in the NHL I think . He is playing like a pro and he is physically ready. I don’t think he would learn that much in the AHL.

But if you ask me the question for Suzuki him I think he would be better starting in the AHL player 1st line Center.

I think you’re right

I wonder how many minutes a first line player could get in Laval? Is it closer to 18 or 25?

My guess is 17-18 minutes max

 

[Mrb1p]

Minutes. I'm not sure he's going to get enough of them if he makes the team.

He'd be much better off playing first line minutes in Laval and be a first call-up when a spot becomes available.

You are so on point there. No matter where, your top prospect needs to play top minutes. All situation type is even better, if the level allows it. This is how you develop the skills, by playing and playing a lot and early.

 

[Mrb1p]

For Poehling he will learn more in the NHL I think . He is playing like a pro and he is physically ready. I don’t think he would learn that much in the AHL.

But if you ask me the question for Suzuki him I think he would be better starting in the AHL player 1st line Center.

The thing is, what will Poehling do in the NHL that he doesnt already do if he plays 3rd line? Hes going to grind like we know he can, hes gonna be good 2way, hes gonna be a character player. He wont learn to be a 60 points player by playing third line with Lekhonen and Byron. But playing first line in the AHL ? Thats where its at. Hes physicaly ready, so lets let him be ready and dominate offensively in the AHL, something he has not done at any level ever.

 

[Vachon23]

The thing is, what will Poehling do in the NHL that he doesnt already do if he plays 3rd line? Hes going to grind like we know he can, hes gonna be good 2way, hes gonna be a character player. He wont learn to be a 60 points player by playing third line with Lekhonen and Byron. But playing first line in the AHL ? Thats where its at. Hes physicaly ready, so lets let him be ready and dominate offensively in the AHL, something he has not done at any level ever.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Domi was remove at winger and one of KK or Poehling having a shoot on the 1st line with Domi. (That’s what I actually hope)

 

[Mrb1p]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Domi was remove at winger and one of KK or Poehling having a shoot on the 1st line with Domi. (That’s what I actually hope)

Moving the first first line center we have since two decad3 to catter for a 3rd line center youre emotionally attached to is exactly the opposite of what we should do.

 

[Vachon23]

Moving the first first line center we have since two decad3 to catter for a 3rd line center youre emotionally attached to is exactly the opposite of what we should do.

I’m sure that Domi would had the same success on the wing, and I would like to give KK a chance at the start of the season on a offensive king with the best foward of the team. If it’s doesn’t work in pre-season then reput Domi on Center.

 

[montreal]

What is best for Poehling on the big club?

Did he not look after KK?

The question should be what's best for Poehling to develop his offensive game, cause the rest of his game won't be an issue. It's just about how good will his offensive game be. Can he be a legit 1st line center? 2nd line center, 3rd line center or do things go off the rails and he never ends up more then a Chipchura or worse DLR. We just have to wait and see.

As for Kotka, I wouldn't have had him on the team but if I did then I would have given him better linemates and more TOI. I'm so against rushing 18,19 and 20 year olds to the NHL but if they are going to be there then put them in the best position to succeed imo.

So Poehling is No.1 on our HFBoard prospect list.

How is he a better prospect than Kotkaniemi?

I don't have him as our #1 but I do have him as our #1 safest prospect. For me it's Caufield/Suzuki at the top as guys that can put the puck in the net like that or have an elite offensive skill just have to be at the top.

There's an age and/or game cap.

I think the official HF rankings state under the age of 24 (might be off on this) or less than 25 NHL games played

it's been a long, long time since I used to do the Habs rankings for HF but I believe it was 40 NHL games.

Julien likes to play all of his lines. The real question is will Poehling develop faster playing 17-18 minutes a night in the AHL against easier competition or 12-13 minutes a night in the NHL against (and practicing with) the best players in the league.

I’m torn between the two.

Poehling needs to work on his offensive game, so in the AHL he would be a regular on the PP, on the 4th line with the Habs I don't see getting PP time. Then add that he's a playmaker so if he's not with guys that can put the puck in the net it doesn't help him gain confidence in his offensive game imo.

That said I do expect him to be in the NHL next season.

 

[CauZuki]

I can see Poehling ending up in the top 6 playing with two of our smaller forwards.

Tatar - Danault - Gallagher
Poehling - Domi - Drouin

I think he is going to surprise a lot of people this year.