Player Discussion Ryan Miller | Pt. IV: Game over?

[mrmyheadhurts]

Carry on.

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[I am toxic]

I think goalies should wear goalie pads and defense shouldn't.

But that's just me.

 

[mossey3535]

Watched some stuff on my PVR.

Miller is a mess right now. He's doing this classic thing where he makes spectacular saves but those saves are a product of his own poor positioning and bad reads.

At this moment he is being all aggressive, all the time. This is why he gets caught outside the crease. He's trying to be a little more modern in his movement by using more down slides but instead it just makes him overcommit even more. It's sort of ironic because when you come out to cut down the angle like that you need to be more cognizant of your rebound control and try to stay on your feet because you are not going to make the backdoor passes.

For example if the play is in the zone and you are going to sit out of the crease to make a save you better be sure to catch it, smother the rebound or direct to the corner. Because you're probably going to butterfly to make the first save, and then you have a tough recovery if the play moves laterally after the rebound. Unfortunately because Ryan is still not seeing the puck particularly well he is making a lot of blocking saves where he is just trying to get in front of stuff. Look at situations where he makes pad-only saves - they produce low, short to middle distance rebounds which are perfect for the opposition to pounce on.

Now being aggressive is not inherently bad. But Miller right now is playing too high a position on plays that are already in the zone, especially on the PK. This is when you need to understand that backdoor and cross crease plays are very likely.

For example on one of the Minnesota rushes early in the game there are two Minny guys who chase the puck behind the goal line on Miller's blocker side. One guy goes behind the net while harassed by Edler and predictably makes a blind back pass to the guy who stayed by the post. On this play Miller turns his head to look over his left shoulder, which is a huge mistake. That means you are losing sight of the puck carrier when he has an obvious pass to a guy who is open in order to keep your eye on a guy who has one of your d-men on him already. By the time Miller realizes this he turns his head again but by that time the trailing guy has already passed it out into the slot. Luckily Ryan butterflies and because he's on the goal line he saves it. But he never once has his eye on the puck for several seconds. That is brutal.

So Minny doesn't score on this goal but they easily could have. And it's a prime example of the Goaltending 101 mistakes that Miller has been making lately.

Another big issue is that he is chasing the white ice on every shot. On plays to the front of the net or cross-crease he jumps forward towards the shooter every time. While this does work in point-blank situation he does it on shooters who are mid level and have time to pick corners or move around him. This usually results because you don't have high confidence in your ability to read and react and you are just trying to block everything.

Again, you can make up for deficiencies in your game but Ryan is doing none of the compensatory things that would help him. So despite jumping out, he doesn't try hard to be square. So now even he makes the first save he is unprepared to face the next shot. Also his reads are poor so he can't rely on reflexes to save him.

In a repeat of last year he is also abusing post integration techniques. You go down and hug the post when there is imminent danger in a 6-10 foot radius in front of the crease. But Ryan will go down and stay down even while the puck carrier proceeds up the half wall. So he is still on his knees when there is no danger that would require him to be on his knees in the first place.

Anyways let's hope he can clean some of this up but again these are problems stemming back to his last Buffalo season. Jim Corsi had tried to implement some of these newer movements and techniques and he still has no clue how to use them.

 

[WTG]

Watched some stuff on my PVR.

Miller is a mess right now. He's doing this classic thing where he makes spectacular saves but those saves are a product of his own poor positioning and bad reads.

At this moment he is being all aggressive, all the time. This is why he gets caught outside the crease. He's trying to be a little more modern in his movement by using more down slides but instead it just makes him overcommit even more. It's sort of ironic because when you come out to cut down the angle like that you need to be more cognizant of your rebound control and try to stay on your feet because you are not going to make the backdoor passes.

For example if the play is in the zone and you are going to sit out of the crease to make a save you better be sure to catch it, smother the rebound or direct to the corner. Because you're probably going to butterfly to make the first save, and then you have a tough recovery if the play moves laterally after the rebound. Unfortunately because Ryan is still not seeing the puck particularly well he is making a lot of blocking saves where he is just trying to get in front of stuff. Look at situations where he makes pad-only saves - they produce low, short to middle distance rebounds which are perfect for the opposition to pounce on.

Now being aggressive is not inherently bad. But Miller right now is playing too high a position on plays that are already in the zone, especially on the PK. This is when you need to understand that backdoor and cross crease plays are very likely.

For example on one of the Minnesota rushes early in the game there are two Minny guys who chase the puck behind the goal line on Miller's blocker side. One guy goes behind the net while harassed by Edler and predictably makes a blind back pass to the guy who stayed by the post. On this play Miller turns his head to look over his left shoulder, which is a huge mistake. That means you are losing sight of the puck carrier when he has an obvious pass to a guy who is open in order to keep your eye on a guy who has one of your d-men on him already. By the time Miller realizes this he turns his head again but by that time the trailing guy has already passed it out into the slot. Luckily Ryan butterflies and because he's on the goal line he saves it. But he never once has his eye on the puck for several seconds. That is brutal.

So Minny doesn't score on this goal but they easily could have. And it's a prime example of the Goaltending 101 mistakes that Miller has been making lately.

Another big issue is that he is chasing the white ice on every shot. On plays to the front of the net or cross-crease he jumps forward towards the shooter every time. While this does work in point-blank situation he does it on shooters who are mid level and have time to pick corners or move around him. This usually results because you don't have high confidence in your ability to read and react and you are just trying to block everything.

Again, you can make up for deficiencies in your game but Ryan is doing none of the compensatory things that would help him. So despite jumping out, he doesn't try hard to be square. So now even he makes the first save he is unprepared to face the next shot. Also his reads are poor so he can't rely on reflexes to save him.

In a repeat of last year he is also abusing post integration techniques. You go down and hug the post when there is imminent danger in a 6-10 foot radius in front of the crease. But Ryan will go down and stay down even while the puck carrier proceeds up the half wall. So he is still on his knees when there is no danger that would require him to be on his knees in the first place.

Anyways let's hope he can clean some of this up but again these are problems stemming back to his last Buffalo season. Jim Corsi had tried to implement some of these newer movements and techniques and he still has no clue how to use them.

A lot of people praised his play that game.

I completely agree, I have no idea how to play goaltender but you could visibly see him playing way too aggressive. It's hard as a defender to read your goaltender when he goes nuts like that.

 

[VanJack]

Real question is what Benning is going to do with Miller once this season is mercifully over.....entering the last year of a $6m a year contract.....there's no way they're going to re-sign him. so they're left with an aging goalie playing out a string, unless by some miracle they can deal him.

 

[I am toxic]

A lot of people praised his play that game.

I completely agree, I have no idea how to play goaltender but you could visibly see him playing way too aggressive. It's hard as a defender to read your goaltender when he goes nuts like that.

At a minimum, players have to have a system in their zone to take away passing lanes rather than shooting lanes if a goalie is going to go "battle fly". Boston with TT in 2011 comes to mind.

Given Torts' emphasis on shot blocking from 2 seasons ago, along with the long history of Rollie getting the goalies to play deeper in the paint, taking away lanes is not something I would expect them to have nailed down. I believe Miller himself indicated this past September he would move away from what Rollie was teaching and return to a more aggressive approach. I am guessing Lidster and WD completely ignored this. Or if they addressed it, they aren't executing.

 

[mossey3535]

At a minimum, players have to have a system in their zone to take away passing lanes rather than shooting lanes if a goalie is going to go "battle fly". Boston with TT in 2011 comes to mind.

Given Torts' emphasis on shot blocking from 2 seasons ago, along with the long history of Rollie getting the goalies to play deeper in the paint, taking away lanes is not something I would expect them to have nailed down. I believe Miller himself indicated this past September he would move away from what Rollie was teaching and return to a more aggressive approach. I am guessing Lidster and WD completely ignored this. Or if they addressed it, they aren't executing.

I understand why Ryan went back to 'what works'. But all the post integration techniques are inherently deep save selections, which he uses and abuses at the same time saying he's going to be aggressive.

And you're absolutely right that as a defence we need to have some system to complement the style that he is playing. But even under WD and going back to Crawford this team has always been a transition team. And when you collapse to block shots it kills usually kills your transition. In this case you'd have to change the way the whole team is playing just because Miller is confused. I don't think we are built to play the collapsing defence, and I think that showed under Torts.

I mean, this is simple to me. Be aggressive on rush plays, but when the play is established in your own zone you can't be jumping out at shooters. This isn't even a new phenomenon:

30 Thoughts From November 2014

18. Former St. Louis goalie coach Corey Hirsch on Ryan Miller: “Rollie Melanson has got him playing a lot smarter. He’s playing a little deeper in his net and not attacking so much. Teams were starting to pass around him he was so aggressive…He’s a deep thinker for a goalie, you always have to explain why something will or won’t work for him. He’s still very talented, but I thought he was really behind in new goaltending techniques and saves.”

19. Can you give more detail on that? “Yes, his post work…. Rollie’s a big one-knee down on the post guy. (Miller) is using it at the proper times now. On net drives only. He used to use it everywhere.” Hirsch added that Miller also occasionally raised his knee in the butterfly, which opened his five-hole. Melanson has worked on that, too.

20. Ran that assessment by another goalie coach, who agreed with Hirsch, but added when Miller had a rare rough night against Los Angeles, he reverted to some old habits.

If you look back at my posts I've criticized him for early knee drops especially against the shootout. Looks like he's back to that bad habit. I also talked above about him abusing post work, and have done so consistently for the time he's been here.

 

[I am toxic]

I understand why Ryan went back to 'what works'. But all the post integration techniques are inherently deep save selections, which he uses and abuses at the same time saying he's going to be aggressive.

And you're absolutely right that as a defence we need to have some system to complement the style that he is playing. But even under WD and going back to Crawford this team has always been a transition team. And when you collapse to block shots it kills usually kills your transition. In this case you'd have to change the way the whole team is playing just because Miller is confused. I don't think we are built to play the collapsing defence, and I think that showed under Torts.

I mean, this is simple to me. Be aggressive on rush plays, but when the play is established in your own zone you can't be jumping out at shooters. This isn't even a new phenomenon:



If you look back at my posts I've criticized him for early knee drops especially against the shootout. Looks like he's back to that bad habit. I also talked above about him abusing post work, and have done so consistently for the time he's been here.

Yes, very insightful post.

As you say, team is not built for this type of goaltending. Miller would work in LA, not NYR. Another reason why it was a poorly thought out signing on mgmt's part.

Not sure whether Hirsch is reversing to VH or RVH but noticed at least one instance of VH in last night game where he could have been burned.I didnt watch the game closely.

Having said that, at least he competed. Wish the whole team would.

 

[Hit the post]

Real question is what Benning is going to do with Miller once this season is mercifully over.....entering the last year of a $6m a year contract.....there's no way they're going to re-sign him. so they're left with an aging goalie playing out a string, unless by some miracle they can deal him.

He'll sign another veteran past his prime goalie to a huge contract...what else?

 

[PM]

He'll sign another veteran past his prime goalie to a huge contract...what else?

That Cam Ward guy won a cup once upon a time!

 

[coldsteel79]

I understand why Ryan went back to 'what works'. But all the post integration techniques are inherently deep save selections, which he uses and abuses at the same time saying he's going to be aggressive.

And you're absolutely right that as a defence we need to have some system to complement the style that he is playing. But even under WD and going back to Crawford this team has always been a transition team. And when you collapse to block shots it kills usually kills your transition. In this case you'd have to change the way the whole team is playing just because Miller is confused. I don't think we are built to play the collapsing defence, and I think that showed under Torts.

I mean, this is simple to me. Be aggressive on rush plays, but when the play is established in your own zone you can't be jumping out at shooters. This isn't even a new phenomenon:



If you look back at my posts I've criticized him for early knee drops especially against the shootout. Looks like he's back to that bad habit. I also talked above about him abusing post work, and have done so consistently for the time he's been here.

Your on the money I remember you calling him out especially on the shootout where I thought he was playing decent.

 

[Hit the post]

That Cam Ward guy won a cup once upon a time!

shhhhhhh....don't give Benning any ideas!

 

[mossey3535]

That Cam Ward guy won a cup once upon a time!

Shut your mouth, he might hear you.

 

[Nick Lang]

I see all these claims that Miller is too aggressive. I know Hirsch may not have been the best but claims over and over again that this is the game plan and the best indicator of whether he is on his game or not. It's all about taking away more space from the shooter. It doesn't help that our d is complete crap.

 

[Fat Tony]

I see all these claims that Miller is too aggressive. I know Hirsch may not have been the best but claims over and over again that this is the game plan and the best indicator of whether he is on his game or not. It's all about taking away more space from the shooter. It doesn't help that our d is complete crap.

When they say that Miller is too aggressive, it also means he's too aggressive for his D. He has to play in concert with them.

 

[mossey3535]

I see all these claims that Miller is too aggressive. I know Hirsch may not have been the best but claims over and over again that this is the game plan and the best indicator of whether he is on his game or not. It's all about taking away more space from the shooter. It doesn't help that our d is complete crap.

If you watched tonight's game versus the Red Wings you saw them start to pass around him on almost every play. The team was outplaying the Wings and outshooting them. Once the Wings got some zone time and opportunity they were able to in the space of one period tie the game.

You also saw Miller make amazing saves when he started from the proper depth (cross-crease pass to Datsyuk I believe), and others where he was too aggressive and they simply passed to the guy at the side to put it in the open net.

You also saw another thing I pointed out on the 3rd goal where he was doing his post integration moves at the wrong time and he got sniped.

This is the evolution of the game in the NHL for goaltenders, everyone knows the smart tactics. Miller is not so talented that he can defy the odds by blindly opting for the low percentage play every time.

All the progressive goaltenders (especially the Finns and Swedes) play this more conservative depth, which is part of the reason for their success. I was hoping Miller would be able to combine his more old-school instincts with better and more structured play in the zone but he hasn't been able to do that. Instead he is blindly trying to be aggressive regardless of the situation in the game. That's just not smart.

 

[Fa Ci La]

well that second goal by the Wings sums up the aggression issue doesn't it?

 

[me2]

I see all these claims that Miller is too aggressive. I know Hirsch may not have been the best but claims over and over again that this is the game plan and the best indicator of whether he is on his game or not. It's all about taking away more space from the shooter. It doesn't help that our d is complete crap.

Quick and Thomas were two of the best at it because their speed and mobility was exceptional but also those water tight Ds covered up other options better than just about any other teams limiting the risk and increasing the effectiveness of agression. That works when your defense is prime Boston or prime LA.

Miller is not fast enough/agile anymore, nor or is the D capablyeof playing that game. It is on Miller to recognise these facts.

 

[me2]

Real question is what Benning is going to do with Miller once this season is mercifully over.....entering the last year of a $6m a year contract.....there's no way they're going to re-sign him. so they're left with an aging goalie playing out a string, unless by some miracle they can deal him.

your best hope is to flip him for a 3rd or 4th to some team looking for a veteran backup at the deadline in 2017. I think we are stuck with him until then.

 

[Interior Cascadian]

Thought this would generate some serious buzz... Miller's throwback mask:


EDIT: I'm having trouble posting the picture directly, so here's the link: http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2016/01/ryan-millers-canucks-mask-skate-logo/

 

[mossey3535]

Thought this would generate some serious buzz... Miller's throwback mask:


EDIT: I'm having trouble posting the picture directly, so here's the link: http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2016/01/ryan-millers-canucks-mask-skate-logo/

Instant classic, looks great!

 

[thepuckmonster]

That's a gorgeous mask

 

[PhysicX]

Hey guys... Any news on his injury recovery? Just wondering for my hockey pool. I'm leading by quite a comfortable margin, but have both my goalies on IR (Price and Miller)... Is it a groin injury? Last I heard, he had cramps, but it's been a week or two now...

 

[tantalum]

I think goalies should wear goalie pads and defense shouldn't.

But that's just me.

Craig Ludwig doesn't believe such nonsense!

He of the ever widening shin pads. Wore the same pads from his college days until he retired.

 

[VanJack]

That's a gorgeous mask

Looks like John Garrett's original mask....heck he's even playing like John Garrett in the Gretzky era!