Ryan Kesler potential?

[hockeyfan125]

Comparison time.

Ryan Kesler at his peak = Present day Keith Primeau.

Kesler won't be the enigma that Primeau is. Much more consistent, for his upside/peak.

 

[LaVal]

So, let me get this straight, my saying that for what Kesler brings compared to what Stewart brings is a way of me ignoring what he does?

Perhaps you should re-read that sentence, because as it stands your point makes very little sense.

you said that the Canucks organization was stupid for picking Kesler ahead of Stewart, because Stewart would out-produce Kesler.

Perhaps you should re-read that sentence, because as it stands your point makes very little sense. Are you just good at reading something that isn't there?

i don't see what's so encryptic about it. you said Vancouver will have a hard time justifying their pick of Kesler when (and this is based on the assumptions that Stewart will reach his ultimate potential, which few prospects do) "Stewart reaches offensive totals Kesler could never get."

And what's the harm in saying Kesler should be a 6.5? 7 = top 6 forward.

nothing. the "harm" came in you stating "since he'll never put up second line points no matter how hard he works". how would you know this? you can assume he'll never, but you can't state it as a fact. many players in his mold have reach top-6 numbers. i doubt he will, because he'll be one of those players too valuable in a checking role and too average in a scoring role (much like Matt Cooke is to Vancouver), but i think the ability and desire is deffinately there. when your argument consists mainly of you stating your opinion as fact is makes for a lousy debate.

Kesler will never score like a top 6 forward... Do I need to draw you a diagram?

there you go again.

You have to be one of the hardest Canucks fans to ever talk to and reason with, and I have come across many living in BC.

i'm sorry, have i talked to you before?

 

[sunb]

Comparison time.

Ryan Kesler at his peak = Present day Keith Primeau.

No, it is not comparison time.
It is time for you to read.
Read the dozen of comparisions made by people who've watched him play. He is a John Madden or Jeff Halpern clone. I'd like for him to be a Primeau clone but he is not offensive enough nor physical enough nor is he big enough. Him and Primeau are fairly dissimilar if you watched both, as Kesler is much faster and smoother a skater than him.

 

[sunb]

That's what I don't understand. Hapless claims that Kesler has "no hands". I agree Kesler is not a flashy prospect. He's not going to bust out more than 25 goals more than maybe once or twice if he's very fortunate.

That said, he is EXTREMELY competant with the puck. Just because one does not have great dekes doesn't mean he has no hands. That's just ridiculous.

I agree, Steen > Kesler (to get back into that foolish Top 50 debate that went on and on), and heck right now, I'll give Stajan > Kesler. He is the type of prospect who will go under appreciated and the type of player that people won't credit as a good player until he's 26-27 probably.

However, after watching Kesler at the NHL and AHL level to say he has "no hands" is, I'm sorry, but outright wrong. I am not the type to say that often, but here, it really needs to be pointed out. Kesler is EXTREMELY sure handed. He can carry the puck through teh zone at top speed, he handles all reasonable passes. Just because a man isn't a wizard with the puck doesn't mean he has hands of stone.

Amen.

 

[leafaholix*]

No, it is not comparison time.

Once again, you are wrong. It's always comparison time. Where do you think half of my 17,000 posts come from?

It is time for you to read.

Read your scribblyboo? Read your constant posts quoting people, and then throwing your own words into their mouths just to make up a point and get it across?

Read the dozen of comparisions made by people who've watched him play. He is a John Madden or Jeff Halpern clone. I'd like for him to be a Primeau clone but he is not offensive enough nor physical enough nor is he big enough. Him and Primeau are fairly dissimilar if you watched both, as Kesler is much faster and smoother a skater than him.

Keith Primeau now is a big 3rd line shutdown centre with some offense and great leadership. He's also a fine skater with deceptive speed for his size. Does that not sound similar to Ryan Kesler?

 

[hockeyfan125]

Once again, you are wrong. It's always comparison time. Where do you think half of my 17,000 posts come from?


Read your scribblyboo? Read your constant posts quoting people, and then throwing your own words into their mouths just to make up a point and get it across?


Keith Primeau now is a big 3rd line shutdown centre with some offense and great leadership. He's also a fine skater with deceptive speed for his size. Does that not sound similar to Ryan Kesler?

Primeau is a decent comparison, but there are players more like Kesler than him. I hope Kesler doesn't max out with Primeaus consistency as well....

He is very similar to a Madden/Halpern cross.

 

[sunb]

Once again, you are wrong. It's always comparison time. Where do you think half of my 17,000 posts come from?

I could get 17,000 posts easily if I went around and blindly comment that this-or-that-prospect has "no hands" without even knowing more about him.

 

[sunb]

Keith Primeau now is a big 3rd line shutdown centre with some offense and great leadership. He's also a fine skater with deceptive speed for his size. Does that not sound similar to Ryan Kesler?

He was also a 3rd overall pick touted highly throughout juniors. He has much more offense and size than Kesler and is a better overall player. Primeau is an amazing hockey player and it would be orgasmic for all Canuck fans if Kesler can develop into a Primeau.

But Kesler is a significantly faster and smoother skater.

They are similar if you haven't watch either play. Its like comparing Schremp to Jagr since both like to score. The Flyers are my second favorite team and I've watched Primeau ever since he was traded to the Flyers from Carolina. From his 1st line powerforward days to his 3rd line checker role, I'm pretty I've seen much more of Primeau and than you have.

 

[leafaholix*]

He was also a 3rd overall pick touted highly throughout juniors. He has much more offense and size than Kesler and is a better overall player. Primeau is an amazing hockey player and it would be orgasmic for all Canuck fans if Kesler can develop into a Primeau.

But Kesler is a significantly faster and smoother skater.

They are similar if you haven't watch either play. Its like comparing Schremp to Jagr since both like to score. The Flyers are my second favorite team and I've watched Primeau ever since he was traded to the Flyers from Carolina. From his 1st line powerforward days to his 3rd line checker role, I'm pretty I've seen much more of Primeau and than you have.

Apparently you can't read.

Keith Primeau at age 30 is a comparable player to what Kesler could become in his prime. A big body, 3rd line centre, shutdown forward, capable of 20 goals, 20-30 assists, 40-50 points.

Not the 30 goal, 40 assist 22 year old kid stuck behind Yzerman and Fedorov in an era of high scorers and blowout hockey games.

 

[sunb]

Apparently you can't read.

Keith Primeau at age 30 is a comparable player to what Kesler could become in his prime. A big body, 3rd line centre, shutdown forward, capable of 20 goals, 20-30 assists, 40-50 points.

Not the 30 goal, 40 assist 22 year old kid stuck behind Yzerman and Fedorov in an era of high scorers and blowout hockey games.

Are you sure you are talking about Keith Primeau? You weren't talking about Wayne were you?

At age 30, Keith Primeau scored 34 goals and 73 points as the Flyer's #1 center.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=725

Click to link to see what Primeau did at age 30. One more instance of you making crap up!

 

[Mess]

Well there are two ways of looking at it, aren't there? I could also claim that the only time he hasn't produced at a high level was last year as a jr.-age player in the AHL.

- led US jr. team in scoring when they played a series of games against USHL teams
- scored nearly a point per game as a freshman in college
- key offensive contributor on the 2003 and 2004 US WJC squads
- 14 points in 17 games in the AHL at age 20, with no first-line or first-unit PP time

Aside from last season, when he was playing pro hockey as a physically undeveloped teenager and was in over his head most nights, he's been one of the top offensive contributors whereever he's been in the last several years.

Minor league stats to be honest mean little and High School stats even less .. but they just show trends.

If a player is a gifted scorer in Junior or College then it not a stretch to say he COULD/MAY score goals at the NHL level as a result ... but then again many many many high scoring Junior players either neither make or never produce at the NHL level ... but if a player is a 2 way projected role player at a lower level, it would be a stretch to make claims that he will be a better offensive player at the highest level when he was not done that before .... and that was the point of the post to show the trend..

It is what it is .. usually ... and stats don't guarantee anything or people would not refer to it as POTENTIAL if there was a better more guaranteed way ..

 

[leafaholix*]

Are you sure you are talking about Keith Primeau? You weren't talking about Wayne were you?

At age 30, Keith Primeau scored 34 goals and 73 points as the Flyer's #1 center.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=725

Click to link to see what Primeau did at age 30. One more instance of you making crap up!

Alright, age 31... when Primeau decided to play a 3rd line role, a more defensive position. That's the kind of player I think Kesler has the potential to developing into.

 

[sunb]

Alright, age 31... when Primeau decided to play a 3rd line role, a more defensive position. That's the kind of player I think Kesler has the potential to developing into.

I know what you are trying to say man, but that comparison is very off-base.
Don't take it as too much of an insult but Primeau and Kesler are very different because I have seen both on many many occasions.

They are both going to be big 3rd liners. But there are different prototypes of 3rd liners out there. There quick sneaky little buggers like Todd Marchant and there are towering monsters like Primeau. I think Kesler will be quite different than Primeau. Primeau is suited for the tough, but slower, physical play of the East while Kesler will utilize his speed, agility and stickwork more.

 

[Mess]

Alright, age 31... when Primeau decided to play a 3rd line role, a more defensive position. That's the kind of player I think Kesler has the potential to developing into.

Personally I even see a closer comparison to say Mike Ricci type career wise... good leader, shut down , character guy that flirts with the 20 goal mark once in a while .. but is excellent on the PK and defensively ..

Keeping in mind that in NOW A DAY NHL terms a third line player would have to also see some PP time or fill in time to achieve 20 goal 40-50 point totals .. which is not easy as Nucks top centerman Morrison playing with Nas and Bert has recorded 16, 23,25,22 goals seasons this past 4 years in Vancouver .. and Morrison was a very gifted U. of Michigan player ... and Nucks 2nd line centre Sedin best totals are 42 points ...

 

[andora]

Last time for the kid out there.
Leafaholix comment game "Stajan > Kesler offensively in game"
I comment to Leafaholix "No, Kesler = 1 point in game, Stajan = 0"
I wasn't trying to comment on the player Stajan is or the player Kesler is. I wasn't describing their overall game and their complete abilities. I made a comment about their play in one game. I don't think you "got it."
.

so the puck could have went in off kesler's face from a point shot, made a crazy bounce and dribbled into the net and you'd still be preaching kesler = 1 point vs stajan = 0 points..

to be honest, a player can be better offensively in a game with zero points than a player with 3 points.. it does happen..

mogilny all the time can be the most dangerous guy all game, hitting posts, breakaways, setting up beauty passes etc.. and domi will come back with two goals..

 

[leafaholix*]

I know what you are trying to say man, but that comparison is very off-base.
Don't take it as too much of an insult but Primeau and Kesler are very different because I have seen both on many many occasions.

They are both going to be big 3rd liners. But there are different prototypes of 3rd liners out there. There quick sneaky little buggers like Todd Marchant and there are towering monsters like Primeau. I think Kesler will be quite different than Primeau. Primeau is suited for the tough, but slower, physical play of the East while Kesler will utilize his speed, agility and stickwork more.

You do realize there isn't just 1 or 2 accurate comparisons to these prospects, right? So when someone sees similar attributes in two players, you can't dismiss the comparison because one guy's 3 inches taller.

Similarities...

Primeau is a 3rd liner - Kesler is almost a guarenteed 3rd liner
Primeau is big, 6'5, 220 - Kesler is apparently big, 6'2, 205 pounds?
Primeau is a really good and strong skater - as is Kesler
Primeau is physical, plays the body, takes a hit to make a play - from all reports, Kesler is the same
Primeau plays a shutdown role on the opponents top line - apparently that's Kesler's potential.

No, Kesler won't be a clone of Primeau... but they are similar in some respects. You bring up Kesler being a clone of Madden, yet John Madden is 5'11, 170 pounds. They may be similar, but nobody's saying the size difference means they're really not that similar.

 

[sunb]

so the puck could have went in off kesler's face from a point shot, made a crazy bounce and dribbled into the net and you'd still be preaching kesler = 1 point vs stajan = 0 points..

to be honest, a player can be better offensively in a game with zero points than a player with 3 points.. it does happen..

mogilny all the time can be the most dangerous guy all game, hitting posts, breakaways, setting up beauty passes etc.. and domi will come back with two goals..

But I watched the game and Kesler didn't score with his face.

 

[Mess]

so the puck could have went in off kesler's face from a point shot, made a crazy bounce and dribbled into the net and you'd still be preaching kesler = 1 point vs stajan = 0 points..

to be honest, a player can be better offensively in a game with zero points than a player with 3 points.. it does happen..

mogilny all the time can be the most dangerous guy all game, hitting posts, breakaways, setting up beauty passes etc.. and domi will come back with two goals..

Been there done that .. Don't waste your time ...

I used the Moose goalie Wade Flaherty also recorded an assist in the game to debunk that silly nonsense of his ..

 

[sunb]

You do realize there isn't just 1 or 2 accurate comparisons to these prospects, right? So when someone sees similar attributes in two players, you can't dismiss the comparison because one guy's 3 inches taller.

Similarities...

Primeau is a 3rd liner - Kesler is almost a guarenteed 3rd liner
Primeau is big, 6'5, 220 - Kesler is apparently big, 6'2, 205 pounds?
Primeau is a really good and strong skater - as is Kesler
Primeau is physical, plays the body, takes a hit to make a play - from all reports, Kesler is the same
Primeau plays a shutdown role on the opponents top line - apparently that's Kesler's potential.

No, Kesler won't be a clone of Primeau... but they are similar in some respects. You bring up Kesler being a clone of Madden, yet John Madden is 5'11, 170 pounds. They may be similar, but nobody's saying the size difference means they're really not that similar.

I'll give you that much. I am going to sleep now. It was fun "conversing" with you even if the feeling isn't mutual.

 

[andora]

But I watched the game and Kesler didn't score with his face.

of course, however you don't really make yourself look good when you say kesler had one point, stajan none, kesler wins, and just leave it cut and dry like that..

 

[sunb]

of course, however you don't really make yourself look good when you say kesler had one point, stajan none, kesler wins, and just leave it cut and dry like that..

Andora, I was simply replying to Leafaholix's comment and wasn't commenting on neither Stajan or Kesler's overall game and complete abilities.

Stajan is better than Kesler offensively but I simply disagreed with Leafaholix as I did think Kesler was better than Stajan in that one game.

I was talking about one game. Like you said, Domi may sometimes outscore Mogilny but by no means does that mean Domi is better.

But our buddy with the initials T.M. seems I was concluding something entirely different.

 

[andora]

i was only referring to the post i quoted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Last time for the kid out there.
Leafaholix comment game "Stajan > Kesler offensively in game"
I comment to Leafaholix "No, Kesler = 1 point in game, Stajan = 0"
I wasn't trying to comment on the player Stajan is or the player Kesler is. I wasn't describing their overall game and their complete abilities. I made a comment about their play in one game. I don't think you "got it."
.

i was only replying to line 2 and 3

 

[sunb]

i was only referring to the post i quoted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jovanovski = Norris
Last time for the kid out there.
Leafaholix comment game "Stajan > Kesler offensively in game"
I comment to Leafaholix "No, Kesler = 1 point in game, Stajan = 0"
I wasn't trying to comment on the player Stajan is or the player Kesler is. I wasn't describing their overall game and their complete abilities. I made a comment about their play in one game. I don't think you "got it."
.

i was only replying to line 2 and 3

Good. Goodnight.

 

[Vman]

He's a bigger version of Matt Stajan and just as underrated.

hehe, from the nov, 17 game

 

[andora]

awesome picture