Ryan Ellis
- Thread starter Zubrus Coffee Maker
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Darius Dangleaitis
Padowan Kovalchuk
shortshorts
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- Oct 29, 2008
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The Scouting Report
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While his size is a concern, that's not the main problem.
Ryan Ellis simply is not a good enough skater for his size. He competes okay, but he's simply too weak right now and is easily overpowered.
Additionally, as I said before the tournament and will continue to say, I don't think Ellis is capable of running a powerplay that involves a lot of movement with quick passing.
He normally just sits up at the point walks the blue line and tries to get a shot off or will think about a pass for a few seconds before making it.
I found that he was really exposed on this against the USA, Russians and the Swedes. Personally I think he'll have a major problem at the NHL level and while he'll be a great junior defenseman, he just might never quite cut it at the next level.
Now with that being said, I could be completely wrong and he could be an excellent PP quarterback for an NHL team one day, but personally I would take some of the other defenseman over him.
Before the world juniors I would have completely agreed with you, but you can't teach teh poise that he possesses. He is so smart wiht hte puck. Orginially I thought that he was a better puck moving Hickey, but now I completely have changed my view. He is a top 15 pick for sure. A team may fall in love iwht him and draft him as high as 8 in my opinion.
His game is very much like Rafalski's. He possesses great poise wiht hte pcuk. Moves it relatively quickly and although he may never ever become a great 5 on 5 d. He will excel if put wiht a great d partner and a solid powerplay. He posseses a great shot and always has his head up. Suprisingly, he is very physical as well, which I guess I liekd to see. That being said, the strength issue arises, but he is only 18 and at 5 10, that's being generous, he has the frame to get bigger. I think that he will find a niche in the NHL one day.
I thought it was an absolutely brilliant performance for a 17 year old D. He can slow the play down and once he gains more experience, I think he can be a very very effective PP specialist.
If Ellis is weak or has flaws, etc...why didn't Pietrangelo QB the PP ? Especially with Pietrangelo being the older and more experienced of the two. That is a question, not a statement. I really am curious why Ellis seemed to log so much more ice time.
The Scouting Report
Registered User
I was asking myself the same question. Honestly in the last three games I thought their second unit was MUCH better than the first unit.
The first unit had no system, other than try to get a shot on net and crash for a rebound.
The second unit on the other hand looked really good, a lot like the Russian powerplay. They had a lot of quick passes, were finding lanes before they got the puck and really had some great opportunities, but unfortunately for them they saw very limited time.
UpsideHockey
Registered User
I concur!
I think he was brilliant. I was super-impressed with his poise and amazing hockey sense. His ability to keep the puck in the offensive zone by maintaining the blue line was unbe-f^&kin-lievable! If he didn't hold the puck in with less than 20 seconds left against Russia, Canada is out of the tourney. He did this countless times, not even to mention his "soccer" kick to keep it in against Germany which led to Jamie Benn's goal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5RQUgNW0bQ
Without a doubt, I think this kid is going to make the NHL and I think as an impact player. I only wish I was his agent...lol
Leperus Leprechuan
Registered User
I hate how it's almost a "fact" around here that Ellis's game won't translate to the NHL. These are things professional scouts can't even predict, let alone people on a message board.
If it was that clear he wont be good in the NHL, He woulden't be projected as a first round pick.
If it was that clear he wont be good in the NHL, He woulden't be projected as a first round pick.
The Scouting Report
Registered User
Okay? Seriously, you need to lose the bias. You do realize there are a ton of very knowledgeable posters on this board, and the point of the forum is to discuss these things.
Also if Ellis is such a lock, why isn't he in the Top 5 on every scouting services list?
Blind Gardien
nexus of the crisis
Well, he'll always be looked at as a risk because of his size. And unless he finds a way to add speed and strength, it won't just be the size per se, it will be that he doesn't have enough of those elements to make up for it and help add dimensions to his game. And those are pretty important dimensions at the pro level, as speed and strength would enable him to perhaps "survive" defensively, which is the distillation of the worry about his size and current style of play.
Now that said, I *do* think his stock will rise based on his play at the WJC. Not necessarily with those that already had him in their top-10. And I bet there would have been a few. But perhaps a few others will elevate him now as well. And the more teams who are ready to gamble despite his risk factors, the more likely one of those teams (still in a minority in the NHL overall in all likelihood) actually will have a top-10 pick and use it on him. His draft position should rise, therefore.
I think he showed in the WJC that he could continue to make an impact offensively even at an elite level against bigger, stronger, and faster players. That's what he'll always have to do. And he did it. Trying to look past the overblown commentary from McGuire, I still think he did a great job on the PP. And he didn't get burned too badly on D, even though he was pretty well insulated there.
The only thing that could keep him out of the top-10 IMHO... well geez, this year you have a pretty deep top-10! A team could have him ranked #7 and still pick their #5 guy with the #9 pick overall, just based on the jumbling up of rankings amongst the teams that end up picking. So he could still get missed!
I don't think I'd draft him in the first round. There is no question that he is supremely talented and great on the PP. But his defensive play needs a boatload of improvement, and he is small and not a great skater. That doesn't mean I don't think he can make it, because I think he might. But I see too much down side to make him a first rounder.
Unless he improves substantially in his own end, he will lose his PP spot in the NHL to forwards who are just as good offensively but don't eat up a defenseman roster spot (and salary) to only play PP.
Unless he improves substantially in his own end, he will lose his PP spot in the NHL to forwards who are just as good offensively but don't eat up a defenseman roster spot (and salary) to only play PP.
Id rather have him then Hickey and Hickey was taken 4th overall. So theres no telling where he may end up... Bu realistically 12-24 imo.
I think it's a toss-up between he and Hickey now. They both have their faults. It is a judgment call as to who's faults will be fatal. I'd pass on both of them and take Myers (who also has his faults but I think will be able to work through them). Also, everyone thought the Hickey pick was Pejorative Slured. I agree that Ellis will probably be drafted somewhere 12-24, but I wouldn't pick him there, for the reasons I gave above.
Leperus Leprechuan
Registered User
Im trying not to be biased. All i`m saying is that Eliis is a 1st rounder. Would you agree with that?
Now assuming you agree, Who was the last player drafted in the first round that it was common knowledge that his game woulden`t translate in to the NHL.
My point is scouts simply woulden`t rank him as a first round player if they knew he won`t be any good in the NHL yet posters on this board seem to know this is the case.
I don`t know I guess they are better at evaluating talent then the people who do it for a living.
serratedmuffin
Registered User
The Scouting Report
Registered User
There are a lot of guys every year. Hence why every year there are always concerns about how some guys will make the transition to the NHL, regardless of the fact that they are first round selections.
Leperus Leprechuan
Registered User
Okay but people are making it out as if it's a sure thing his game won't translate.
The thing that really annoys me however is that a lot (not all) of people are coming to this conclusion from watching him play 6 games as a 17 year old in a 19 year old tournament.
I just hate how its almost a cliche around here that Ellis will be a failure in the NHL.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Right, but how man years did it take for Rafalski to bulk up and refine his game before he became a success at the NHL level? How many similar-sized defensemen are excelling in the NHL right now?
I never said taht immediately he would become a success it wil be an uphill battle to become a pro caliber d liek rafalski, but ellis will get stronger and his frame supports what I am saying. A couple of guys that are excelling with taht size are lebda, rafalski (both may I add are stanley cup winners), doughty may be 400 pounds but he is not all that tall either only 2 inches taller, and i can't think of many more but rarely does a 5 10 d man have this kind of potential like ellis. He could become a pp qb, highly desirable now adays, and a serviceable 5 on 5 d man. I like what Ellis brings and I like what he may become.
The Scouting Report
Registered User
I've seen him play since his AAA days playing with Maxwell and Doherty, which is likely earlier than you even saw him. And since that point I've also seen him several times between the last two seasons in the OHL. But yeah I do know what you mean, one tournament can have a lot of people jump to conclusions.
