RW Eeli Tolvanen Milwaukee Admirals, AHL (2017, 30th, NSH) Part II

[Hockeyisl1fe]

What are you hoping to accomplish with this? Please, no more...

Why don't you ask this from Jas Gripen for example? He came to this thread specifically to make fun of him and the posters here. I'm just throwing some of that back.

 

[Hokinaittii]

Why don't you ask this from Jas Gripen for example? He came to this thread specifically to make fun of him and the posters here. I'm just throwing some of that back.

Here is hoping his attitude will change as quickly as it did with Pettersson when he was pretty much the only one constantly critizing him.

 

[RageQuit77]

Eeli will do fine.

Even if he wouldn't ever reach to his full potential and high ceiling, no worries, it's written all over him he won't go too low either.

So raw, so young, and nothing this far in his career has been else than continuous adaptation to new levels, new scenes, new schemes. Work ethic, adaptability, flexibility, 'cool' under pressure, natural skill set, fearlessness, level-headed PR-imago, professionalism...

Don't shot the man for his performances in his first 3 NHL games, when same (then) 18 years old guy made pretty unprecedented and successful hockey tour around the world in a single season, high level tournaments and all, under enormous hype and public pressure, before the entry. His KHL production didn't decline because he was so damn bad, it declined because he made himself a serious threat to which was countered accordingly: and when it counted most (KHL playoffs) he produced. He produced on PPG or more level in every international tournaments he took a part earning his rights to wear The Lions jersey in Mens' tournaments (and doing that in current tournament, as one of best players of Team Finland).

But, but... "failed" 3 games long half-serious entry try-out in NHL nullify everything that happened before it, sure. LOL!

Eeli Tolvanen - Elite Prospects

He can handle with hype. Can we?

 

[teravaineSAROS]

His playing style might not be as suited for small rinks, but he seems smart enough to adapt to an extent.

I don't see him as a 1st liner but at best a strong top 6 assets which is great for being a later 1st round pick

 

[BL92]

He's honestly much better than I thought he'd be 2 years ago. Might not become a 1st liner, but I see clear signs for top 6 potential.

 

[Ippenator]

His playing style might not be as suited for small rinks, but he seems smart enough to adapt to an extent.

I don't see him as a 1st liner but at best a strong top 6 assets which is great for being a later 1st round pick

So what exactly in his playing style makes you doubt him? I’m practically sure that he is going to be a first line star in the NHL. My reason to think this is because he has very high hockey IQ, which usually helps a player do very well at any level. But in addition to that he has very good stickhandling skills, is a great skater and he has an excellent shot. When a player has all these abilities already as such a young and physically raw player, I see it so that he has future star player written all over him.

Btw, you are the one who couldn’t believe it when I said that Aho is a clearly better skater and will become in the future an even more clearly better skater than Granlund or Teräväinen. Now of course the difference is even bigger than then. Do you already believe it?

 

[Kommeri]

Btw, you are the one who couldn’t believe it when I said that Aho is a clearly better skater and will become in the future an even more clearly better skater than Granlund or Teräväinen. Now of course the difference is even bigger than then. Do you already believe it?

And you are the one who said that Rantanen's potential would be middle 6 winger max.
I'm pretty sure Eeli scores atleast 20 goals on the next season if gets a chance in top6. He has potential to score 30 goals every season, which would be pretty amazing for nashville and also ofc to team Finland.

 

[Ippenator]

And you are the one who said that Rantanen's potential would be middle 6 winger max.
I'm pretty sure Eeli scores atleast 20 goals on the next season if gets a chance in top6. He has potential to score 30 goals every season, which would be pretty amazing for nashville and also ofc to team Finland.

And I have gladly and openly admitted being wrong about Rantanen, so what does it have to do with this here? I am easily capable of admitting when I have been wrong, but I’m going to still expect the same from other posters here too.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

So what exactly in his playing style makes you doubt him? I’m practically sure that he is going to be a first line star in the NHL. My reason to think this is because he has very high hockey IQ, which usually helps a player do very well at any level. But in addition to that he has very good stickhandling skills, is a great skater and he has an excellent shot. When a player has all these abilities already as such a young and physically raw player, I see it so that he has future star player written all over him.

Btw, you are the one who couldn’t believe it when I said that Aho is a clearly better skater and will become in the future an even more clearly better skater than Granlund or Teräväinen. Now of course the difference is even bigger than then. Do you already believe it?

I think you're taking it as me putting Tolvanen down when all I mean is that becoming a true first line star winger is reaally difficult and IMO there's concerns about work ethic and consistency, also we have yet to see how well he manages to adapt to the NHL since a lot of his success come from having the space to do things.

I don't think Tolvanen is as good of a skater as Aho was at the time nor do I think Tolvanen's consistency, work ethic and hockey senses are nearly as good as Aho

 

[Ippenator]

I think you're taking it as me putting Tolvanen down when all I mean is that becoming a true first line star winger is reaally difficult and IMO there's concerns about work ethic and consistency, also we have yet to see how well he manages to adapt to the NHL since a lot of his success come from having the space to do things.

I don't think Tolvanen is as good of a skater as Aho was at the time nor do I think Tolvanen's consistency, work ethic and hockey senses are nearly as good as Aho

In my opinion you are putting exactly Tolvanen down from the enormous potential that he has, as you are very clearly stating that you don’t see him as a future 1st line player in the NHL. If you would point out that you maybe see 1st line potential in him, but you have certain question marks that make you still doubt it, that would not be as much of putting him down.

Anyway I disagree with you on quite many things about Eeli. 1st of all he is not far from what Aho was as a skater at the same age. Aho did have a bit better agility, but otherwise I would say that they are very equal skaters when at Eeli’s age.

I don’t really know how you have got the impression that Eeli’s work ethic is questionable? I completely disagree with this. He has very high work ethic in my opinion, but he does still have a lot of work to do with getting his stamina to NHL level. That could be seen during the long season this season that he has still a lot of work to do his stamina. That might of course have made it look like he was not giving his all during the latter half of the season, but I honestly see it so that it was very much caused by exhaustion and the lack of stamina.

That area is easy to fix in a season or two with the right kind of training, so I’m definitely not worried about it. It’s anyway very common for under 20 year old’s to have clear issues with stamina, just like Laine and Puljujärvi have had so far, and how Granlund and Teräväinen both had very clearly at that age.

I also don’t agree that Tolvanen’s game has been that much based on having space and time. Not at least any more than Laine’s ever was, and we see how well Laine is doing in the NHL. And Tolvanen is already a clearly better skater than Laine, so he is able to gain separation even better than Laine in the smaller rink. I see absolutely no problem with that either.

I have said many times that I see Aho and Laine as the two best Finnish young players and the two best Finnish players for a long time to come. That holds still for me, but the next players in the line for me are then Heiskanen, Tolvanen, Rantanen, Barkov, Teräväinen and Granlund (if he can be anymore counted as a young player). Only after that comes Puljujärvi and some others.

Well ok, in the younger players there might be even top class potential still in at least Kaapo Kakko, but I feel like it’s still too early to put his name to this list that I had here.

 

[kelsier]

So what exactly in his playing style makes you doubt him? I’m practically sure that he is going to be a first line star in the NHL. My reason to think this is because he has very high hockey IQ, which usually helps a player do very well at any level. But in addition to that he has very good stickhandling skills, is a great skater and he has an excellent shot. When a player has all these abilities already as such a young and physically raw player, I see it so that he has future star player written all over him.

Btw, you are the one who couldn’t believe it when I said that Aho is a clearly better skater and will become in the future an even more clearly better skater than Granlund or Teräväinen. Now of course the difference is even bigger than then. Do you already believe it?

I can honestly say I agree with you. He definitely has an excellent first line player upside, there's no two questions about it. What he did in KHL alone at 18 makes it hard to argue against. Tolvanen had a better season than the likes of Kuznetsov, Taransenko and so on at at the same age. Of course I'm not basing my better judgement on the statistics, but rather what I've seen on the ice and I actually watched the majority of the games. He has very high hockey IQ as you mentioned (similarly to Aho), is excellent skater (similarly to Aho) and is a great shooter (better than Aho, but needs to work on accuracy). Of course I don't expect him to become as good as Aho, as there is a small number in the world who can, but rather that they have some similarities without being the same type of players. Eeli also has absolutely fantastic puck handling skills and it particularly caught my eye that he would come out with the puck from a battle (both open ice and from the walls) most of the times, which was pretty amazing considering the level of toughness in the league. He was not easily knocked down and it didn't happen often, which to me indicates a strong core strength despite of not having immense frame. Granlund never had these kind of physical gifts and was forced to work hard as he** to make it and even that won't be enough to ever be considered an absolute elite player in the NHL in my opinion.

I do think he's going to be a star in Nashville and if someone disagrees with this then that's just fine. We will see once he really gets there and has a few season under his belt. Players with high hockey IQ normally don't bust out and when you happen to have some skill on top of that, then you have a pretty well armed for a successful career. The Preds did not sign this kid with a 1st overall type of a contract if they didn't see similar potential. So glad he got drafted by this organization (no matter how much I despise Subban xD).

 

[Ippenator]

I can honestly say I agree with you. He definitely has an excellent first line player upside, there's no two questions about it. What he did in KHL alone at 18 makes it hard to argue against. Tolvanen had a better season than the likes of Kuznetsov, Taransenko and so on at at the same age. Of course I'm not basing my better judgement on the statistics, but rather what I've seen on the ice and I actually watched the majority of the games. He has very high hockey IQ as you mentioned (similarly to Aho), is excellent skater (similarly to Aho) and is a great shooter (better than Aho, but needs to work on accuracy). Of course I don't expect him to become as good as Aho, as there is a small number in the world who can, but rather that they have some similarities without being the same type of players. Eeli also has absolutely fantastic puck handling skills and it particularly caught my eye that he would come out with the puck from a battle (both open ice and from the walls) most of the times, which was pretty amazing considering the level of toughness in the league. He was not easily knocked down and it didn't happen often, which to me indicates a strong core strength despite of not having immense frame. Granlund never had these kind of physical gifts and was forced to work hard as he** to make it and even that won't be enough to ever be considered an absolute elite player in the NHL in my opinion.

I do think he's going to be a star in Nashville and if someone disagrees with this then that's just fine. We will see once he really gets there and has a few season under his belt. Players with high hockey IQ normally don't bust out and when you happen to have some skill on top of that, then you have a pretty well armed for a successful career. The Preds did not sign this kid with a 1st overall type of a contract if they didn't see similar potential. So glad he got drafted by this organization (no matter how much I despise Subban xD).

I 100% agree with every single thing in your post.

 

[WingsOverAvs]

Really excited to see this kid in a full time role next year. Was a little disappointed he didnt get a look in the playoffs. Tough position to throw a young kid into for sure but I felt like NSH could have used the extra punch

 

[teravaineSAROS]

In my opinion you are putting exactly Tolvanen down from the enormous potential that he has, as you are very clearly stating that you don’t see him as a future 1st line player in the NHL. If you would point out that you maybe see 1st line potential in him, but you have certain question marks that make you still doubt it, that would not be as much of putting him down.

Anyway I disagree with you on quite many things about Eeli. 1st of all he is not far from what Aho was as a skater at the same age. Aho did have a bit better agility, but otherwise I would say that they are very equal skaters when at Eeli’s age.

I don’t really know how you have got the impression that Eeli’s work ethic is questionable? I completely disagree with this. He has very high work ethic in my opinion, but he does still have a lot of work to do with getting his stamina to NHL level. That could be seen during the long season this season that he has still a lot of work to do his stamina. That might of course have made it look like he was not giving his all during the latter half of the season, but I honestly see it so that it was very much caused by exhaustion and the lack of stamina.

That area is easy to fix in a season or two with the right kind of training, so I’m definitely not worried about it. It’s anyway very common for under 20 year old’s to have clear issues with stamina, just like Laine and Puljujärvi have had so far, and how Granlund and Teräväinen both had very clearly at that age.

I also don’t agree that Tolvanen’s game has been that much based on having space and time. Not at least any more than Laine’s ever was, and we see how well Laine is doing in the NHL. And Tolvanen is already a clearly better skater than Laine, so he is able to gain separation even better than Laine in the smaller rink. I see absolutely no problem with that either.

I have said many times that I see Aho and Laine as the two best Finnish young players and the two best Finnish players for a long time to come. That holds still for me, but the next players in the line for me are then Heiskanen, Tolvanen, Rantanen, Barkov, Teräväinen and Granlund (if he can be anymore counted as a young player). Only after that comes Puljujärvi and some others.

"If you would point out that you maybe see 1st line potential in him, but you have certain question marks that make you still doubt it, that would not be as much of putting him down."

That was exactly what I said though, I said i reckon he'll be a 1st to 2nd line tweener meaning there is 1st line potential to him and if he becomes a solid first liner thats fine, I'm just not quite convinced yet.

If he stays a left winger I don't think he'll knock Forsberg off the first line, he might be better than Arvidsson on the right wing but might be used on the 2nd line to spread out the talent.

 

[Ippenator]

His playing style might not be as suited for small rinks, but he seems smart enough to adapt to an extent.

I don't see him as a 1st liner but at best a strong top 6 assets which is great for being a later 1st round pick

This makes it very clear that you simply just don’t see him as a 1st liner. To me this doesn’t leave anything unclear about it.

Sure it’s not an easy task to get past Forsberg or even Arvidsson in the pecking order, and I’m for sure anyway not expecting that to happen very soon. But to say that it couldn’t still happen in some years is in my opion kind of belittling the potential that Tolvanen has. He is already a better goal scorer than either of those great Swedes were at his age, and I do believe that real top class goalscorers are still what Nashville is missing the most from their offence in general. So I really see that the special talent that Eeli has is going to be used very much by Nashville in the future.

And if it seems like its’s getting crowded with the top line goalscorer role, there can also always be the possibility of a big trade happening at some point too.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

This makes it very clear that you simply just don’t see him as a 1st liner. To me this doesn’t leave anything unclear about it.

Sure it’s not an easy task to get past Forsberg or even Arvidsson in the pecking order, and I’m for sure anyway not expecting that to happen very soon. But to say that it couldn’t still happen in some years is in my opion kind of belittling the potential that Tolvanen has. He is already a better goal scorer than either of those great Swedes were at his age, and I do believe that real top class goalscorers are still what Nashville is missing the most from their offence in general. So I really see that the special talent that Eeli has is going to be used very much by Nashville in the future.

And if it seems like its’s getting crowded with the top line goalscorer role, there can also always be the possibility of a big trade happening at some point too.

I don't know why you're so offended by it? There aren't a lot of left wingers better than Forsberg, Eeli doesnt HAVE TO be better just to be good.

I just don't expect him to be a clear cut 1st line winger for Nashville and you think that's me hating on him or putting him down?


You just have an unrealistic perspective of what it takes to become a top line player on a Stanley Cup contender if you take Tolvanen's success for granted.


edit: also, I didn't say "Tolvanen can't possibly be better" I just said I personally don't predict him to. IF he was to become better it doesn't mean i'll be all mind blown by it

 

[Breakers]

THIS is why the KHL is a complete joke. It's embarassing

 

[Lateralous]

THIS is why the KHL is a complete joke. It's embarassing

Wow, that’s really embarrassing for the KHL

 

[TeddyBare]

This is unheard of levels of pettiness.

Like I didn't think it possible to be this petty.

 

[RageQuit77]

Lol. Complete joke "award". Rarely the winner of any Rookie award is more clear long before the end of a season in any league, and seldom actual level of contributions on ice, and new records make it easier to name the winner.

Vitaly Kravtsov must feel embarrassad now, as He like everyone else and their aunts around hockey world know that "The Award" didn't go right this season.

KHL! Abolish whole thing. It only humiliates potential candidates thereafter.

 

[Legionnaire11]

A friend of mine who covers the KHL in a stateside publication confirmed to me that to be eligible for ROTY in the KHL you have to be Russian, under age 26 and have just completed your first pro season.

 

[Fantomas]

Meh who cares.

 

[RageQuit77]

A friend of mine who covers the KHL in a stateside publication confirmed to me that to be eligible for ROTY in the KHL you have to be Russian, understand 26 and have just completed your first pro season.

Eeli was eligible to be Rookie of the Week and Rookie of the Month several times during season 2017-2018:

• KHL Forward of the Week (Oct. 2)
• KHL Rookie of the Month (October)
• KHL Rookie of the Month (September)
• KHL Rookie of the Week (Oct. 9)
• KHL Rookie of the Week (Oct. 2)
• KHL Rookie of the Week (Oct. 30)
• KHL Rookie of the Week (Mar. 2)
• KHL Rookie of the Week (Aug. 28)
• KHL Rookie of the Week (Sep. 18)

Not to mention those age records that were broken by Eeli (= meaning nobody has ever done better in the league when being as young as he was/is).

But somehow he is not eligible to be The Rookie of the Year.

KHL made ridiculously stupid, biased, unfair decision, that can be defended only by using out-of-hockey arguments.

KHL is allegedly multinational league having teams from multiple countries, but you have to be Russian rookie, to be eligible for the Rookie - award? Right.

[insert big image of middle finger here]

 

[Albatros]

You can criticize the rules, but they were not changed or misinterpreted to achieve this outcome. Also changing them mid-season is not really a fair option, so what is left is to consider whether they should be altered to avoid these situations in the future.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Russia strikes again. Ahhh, who cares.