Chip Alexander: Rutherford expected to give up GM duties at end of the season

[Wild Caniac]

Why do you assume that? Francis has been there with JR this whole time and many of the contracts already limit moves. I'd be shocked if there was a complete overhaul.

I would be shocked as well, but this news was shocking enough. I find it interesting as well that JR resigning Faulk may be the last move he makes. Francis may come in and feel the need to rebuild (hopefully not like Ted Nolan, more like Dale Tallon) and if he does, losing core pieces of the team from the past 6-10 years (Eric, Cam, Skinner) would be something he may be more willing to do, because of his ability to have the final say on changes.

 

[What the Faulk]

The cup is nice but JR's legacy is 5 playoffs appearances in 20 years on the job... 5!!!

There's no need to kick the guy on the way out the door. He brought a Stanley Cup to North Carolina before Toronto could get another. If you told someone that 20 years ago they would have laughed in your face. It's time for JR to go, but that doesn't diminish what he did.

 

[Joe McGrath]

To Quebec we go!

In my fantasy Francis hums the brass bonanza as he trades him, people think it's weird, then 3 years later holds a press conference to announce he's bought the team and is moving them back to Hartford in a full heel turn. He puts on a Whaler jersey drops the mic and walks out to a chorus of boos.

This is total fiction intended to rile you southern folk up.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

To Quebec we go!

Please, don't move the team to Quebec.

I don't think I could cheer for them anymore if they played there.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

What's tragic is that if the Canes could have won 1 game at home to end the season in 07/08 and 1 game at home to end the season in 10/11, the Canes playoff history would have been a respectable:

1 SC Win
1 ECF Appearance
2 Playoff Appearances

in 8 regular seasons + 1 strike shortened season.

While the lack of sustained success in the playoffs lies squarely on the shoulders of JR as this is the team he assembled, if the players had shown up for just 1 game, the storyline since the 04/05 lockout would be quite different.

 

[Joe McGrath]

There's no need to kick the guy on the way out the door. He brought a Stanley Cup to North Carolina before Toronto could get another. If you told someone that 20 years ago they would have laughed in your face. It's time for JR to go, but that doesn't diminish what he did.

Not to mention he was (a small) part of the ownership group that brought the team to North Carolina in the first place.

Its the same thing when people from the area complain about Karmanos. Really? Could you be any more ungrateful?

 

[faulkingdynamic]

There's no need to kick the guy on the way out the door. He brought a Stanley Cup to North Carolina before Toronto could get another. If you told someone that 20 years ago they would have laughed in your face. It's time for JR to go, but that doesn't diminish what he did.

He was clearly instrumental in bringing a cup to Carolina, but his GM career on the whole was failure. Winning a cup does not paint the entire painting for me. But then again I also don't consider Jay Feaster a success despite a cup. The whole body of work means something... even on the way out the door.

Im not attacking the man, simply his performance as GM

 

[Kram170]

I still say the bigger problem is the failures in this organization developmentally. Getting basically nothing from 05 and 09, and extremely limited output from 06 and 08 has put us in a pretty horrific position from a sheer depth standpoint. Getting even a couple passable 3rd liners out of those drafts would have changed the dynamic of the team greatly.

As much as I'm relieved to be heading in a different direction from a management standpoint, until the culture of this team changes from top to bottom I'll be unimpressed. The changes in the AHL need to be our next step.

I completely agree. Hopefully with a new perspective we will see major changes in Charlotte as well.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Well, the day has finally come.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

We better get a king's ransom for Skinner or I'll be so pissed that I'll write a post on these boards and get over it in a few days.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I would be shocked as well, but this news was shocking enough. I find it interesting as well that JR resigning Faulk may be the last move he makes. Francis may come in and feel the need to rebuild (hopefully not like Ted Nolan, more like Dale Tallon) and if he does, losing core pieces of the team from the past 6-10 years (Eric, Cam, Skinner) would be something he may be more willing to do, because of his ability to have the final say on changes.

How do you consider Skinner the "core from the last 6-10 years"?

 

[garnetpalmetto]

Maybe, but this is like the 3rd time the media has speculated that E. Staal and Ward are available (and HF had a feeding frenzy), so right now it's nothing but a lot of speculation. McKenzie usually has an in with Rutherford, and even his comments were vague and speculative.

When a team under-achieves and there is a new GM, there will always be rumors that change in personnel is under foot. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I'll be very surprised if Eric or Jordan is traded. I won't be surprised (but will be disappointed) if Skinner is traded.

I'd be surprised to see any of those three players moved frankly.

As a guy who was the captain and franchise C who was traded away which led to the downfall and ultimate relocation of the franchise, I find it highly unlikely Francis trades Eric.

Beyond that, it would mean Francis trading away his "protege" in some ways. If you recall, when Staal first entered the League he was buddied up with Francis the same way the Pens paired Crosby and Lemieux to ease their respective transitions into the pro game. IIRC, Staal's locker was next to Francis and Francis took Staal under his wing. Given that relationship I can't see Francis jettisoning Staal. That said it would be a little funny if after trading him Francis said "I told the guy, 'Be consistent every night.' Maybe if he'd listened he'd still be here. Oh well, time for my nap now. Jim said they were excellent ways to keep on top of the GM game and that some of his best trades and contract offers came to him in a dream."

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

As much as I'm relieved to be heading in a different direction from a management standpoint, until the culture of this team changes from top to bottom I'll be unimpressed. The changes in the AHL need to be our next step.

I don't know enough about Daniels and the AHL to say if they are doing a good, average or horrible job, but how can you reconcile that we didn't get anything worthwhile out of these drafts but then put the failure to develop onto Charlotte? I mean if you have ****** ingredients, even the best chef is going to cook a ****** meal. For the most part, any prospect that has shown promise goes almost straight to the NHL (Sutter, Skinner, Lindholm, Murphy, Staal, Ladd (lockout AHL), etc..

Other than Boychuk and maybe Dalpe (who has had more than his fair share of chances), what really top picks / top talent have had a chance to develop in the AHL for the Canes? Again, I don't know enough about what they do down there to assess it, but it's not like they've been getting a lot of 1st/2nd round picks to ripen down there and we all know with the lack of scouting, that the Canes don't have a lot of success beyond the 2nd round.

 

[My Special Purpose]

Not to mention he was (a small) part of the ownership group that brought the team to North Carolina in the first place.

Its the same thing when people from the area complain about Karmanos. Really? Could you be any more ungrateful?

During this franchise's history, there have been times when I've been a true insider, other times when I get a little info, and times when I'm a complete outsider (like now). At the time of the move, I was in on just about everything going on, and I believe the person most instrumental in Raleigh having an NHL team right now is Gary Bettman. PK didn't want to be here (as evidenced by his semi-annual treks to cow country), but he wanted to be an NHL owner very badly and he trusted the commissioner. For all the grief Bettman gets, it was really his call.

As for this move, thanks JR, you could even leave now if you wanted. We're obviously in major wait-and-see mode with Ronnie Franchise. He's a smart dude, but way too patient and laid back for me. As others have noted, he's got his hands tied by some of the contracts and no-trade clauses, so I doubt if there's going to be a complete overhaul, if only because he simply *can't* get rid of everyone.

I have a feeling this won't change much, if anything. The culture will be the same, the reactions will be the same, the Staals aren't going anywhere (if anything, we're ready to complete the collection). They're still the WhalerCanes, more now than ever.

 

[Brock Anton]

...I don't hate JR. But this had to happen.

 

[Joe McGrath]

They're still the WhalerCanes, more now than ever.

I don't know what I'd do with myself if they actually had a sustained run of success. The concept is so foreign to me after almost 30 years.

 

[VAcaniac]

I cannot believe what I just read on my Twitter feed. This weekend couldn't get any better.

He had a decent summer but playoffs three times in 10 years isn't good enough to be an NHL GM.

Parade down Wade Avenue!!

EDIT: I haven't been this excited since Scott Walker scored in OT in game 7.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I don't know enough about Daniels and the AHL to say if they are doing a good, average or horrible job, but how can you reconcile that we didn't get anything worthwhile out of these drafts but then put the failure to develop onto Charlotte? I mean if you have ****** ingredients, even the best chef is going to cook a ****** meal. For the most part, any prospect that has shown promise goes almost straight to the NHL (Sutter, Skinner, Lindholm, Murphy, Staal, Ladd (lockout AHL), etc..

Other than Boychuk and maybe Dalpe (who has had more than his fair share of chances), what really top picks / top talent have had a chance to develop in the AHL for the Canes? Again, I don't know enough about what they do down there to assess it, but it's not like they've been getting a lot of 1st/2nd round picks to ripen down there and we all know with the lack of scouting, that the Canes don't have a lot of success beyond the 2nd round.

It's not about the ability to develop "top picks / top talent." It's about developing the *other* guys. Look at the guys who are holding together the Red Wings through this horrific injury season. If we lost the man-games they have lost to their best players and goalies this year, we'd have 12 points. Yet they're better than we are, and can still make the playoffs. Why? Gustav Nyquist, Johnthan Ericsson, Justin Abdelkader, Darren Helm, Jonas Gustavsson, etc. All of whom spent significant time in Grand Rapids. If you look at it, the Red Wings have done very poorly with first- and second-round picks the past several years: Brandon Smith? Jakub Kindl? Riley Sheahan? Tomas Jurco? Tomas Tatar? We've done better than that at the top. Where they kill us -- and virtually every other team kills us as well -- is with the third- through seventh-round guys they develop to be bottom six forwards or bottom pairing defense depth. I think the sum total of our win in this department is Brett Bellemore.

That's what has to change.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I don't know enough about Daniels and the AHL to say if they are doing a good, average or horrible job, but how can you reconcile that we didn't get anything worthwhile out of these drafts but then put the failure to develop onto Charlotte? I mean if you have ****** ingredients, even the best chef is going to cook a ****** meal. For the most part, any prospect that has shown promise goes almost straight to the NHL (Sutter, Skinner, Lindholm, Murphy, Staal, Ladd (lockout AHL), etc..

Other than Boychuk and maybe Dalpe (who has had more than his fair share of chances), what really top picks / top talent have had a chance to develop in the AHL for the Canes? Again, I don't know enough about what they do down there to assess it, but it's not like they've been getting a lot of 1st/2nd round picks to ripen down there and we all know with the lack of scouting, that the Canes don't have a lot of success beyond the 2nd round.

The bolded is what I think we often miss on this board. We have had our fair share of successful draft picks over the years. It's just that they all skipped the developmental stage and went directly to the NHL level, leaving the AHL cupboard bare of NHL-quality prospects.

IMO, our issue isn't drafting/developing players nearly so much as managing the players we already have. Too many of our veterans have received premium contracts and then fallen completely off a cliff. Either something is wrong with our NHL-level development program, or something is wrong with the way JR evaluated pro talent, or we are incredibly unlucky. Probably not the last option.

 

[Joe McGrath]

It's not about the ability to develop "top picks / top talent." It's about developing the *other* guys. Look at the guys who are holding together the Red Wings through this horrific injury season. If we lost the man-games they have lost to their best players and goalies this year, we'd have 12 points. Yet they're better than we are, and can still make the playoffs. Why? Gustav Nyquist, Johnthan Ericsson, Justin Abdelkader, Darren Helm, Jonas Gustavsson, etc. All of whom spent significant time in Grand Rapids. If you look at it, the Red Wings have done very poorly with first- and second-round picks the past several years: Brandon Smith? Jakub Kindl? Riley Sheahan? Tomas Jurco? Tomas Tatar? We've done better than that at the top. Where they kill us -- and virtually every other team kills us as well -- is with the third- through seventh-round guys they develop to be bottom six forwards or bottom pairing defense depth. I think the sum total of our win in this department is Brett Bellemore.

That's what has to change.

Exactly. For a team to have any depth they only need maybe one 3rd - 7th round pick every two years to be an NHL player. This team is just horrible at that for some reason . Scouting? Development?

 

[gocanes88]

I cannot believe what I just read on my Twitter feed. This weekend couldn't get any better.

He had a decent summer but playoffs three times in 10 years isn't good enough to be an NHL GM.

Parade down Wade Avenue!!

EDIT: I haven't been this excited since Scott Walker scored in OT in game 7.

I can't believe you guys... THIS is what I expected to see! I read the news and raced over here expecting to see a massive party... and it seems very little of you are thrilled! Haven't you all been begging for this to happen for ages?

 

[VAcaniac]

The bolded is what I think we often miss on this board. We have had our fair share of successful draft picks over the years. It's just that they all skipped the developmental stage and went directly to the NHL level, leaving the AHL cupboard bare of NHL-quality prospects.

IMO, our issue isn't drafting/developing players nearly so much as managing the players we already have. Too many of our veterans have received premium contracts and then fallen completely off a cliff. Either something is wrong with our NHL-level development program, or something is wrong with the way JR evaluated pro talent, or we are incredibly unlucky. Probably not the last option.

Ask Bleedgreen how we really feels.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It's not about the ability to develop "top picks / top talent." It's about developing the *other* guys. Look at the guys who are holding together the Red Wings through this horrific injury season. If we lost the man-games they have lost to their best players and goalies this year, we'd have 12 points. Yet they're better than we are, and can still make the playoffs. Why? Gustav Nyquist, Johnthan Ericsson, Justin Abdelkader, Darren Helm, Jonas Gustavsson, etc. All of whom spent significant time in Grand Rapids. If you look at it, the Red Wings have done very poorly with first- and second-round picks the past several years: Brandon Smith? Jakub Kindl? Riley Sheahan? Tomas Jurco? Tomas Tatar? We've done better than that at the top. Where they kill us -- and virtually every other team kills us as well -- is with the third- through seventh-round guys they develop to be bottom six forwards or bottom pairing defense depth. I think the sum total of our win in this department is Brett Bellemore.

That's what has to change.

I don't disagree that the Canes need more out of the *other* guys, just that on the one hand we say "we don't have enough scouts and draft terribly after the first couple of rounds" then on the other hand say "our AHL development sucks".

Maybe it truly is both (I can't tell which contributes more to the problem), but my point was that it has to START with improved scouting and drafting better players in the 3-7 rounds, otherwise the AHL team (whoever runs it) is going to have a tough time developing players who aren't very good to begin with.

But I do agree, especially with the top heavy contracts, the Canes have to start getting role players other than Drayson Bowman from our draft ranks.

 

[LadyCane]

I do not know how I feel about this. I'd agree that change was needed, buuut...is Francis the right change?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I can't believe you guys... THIS is what I expected to see! I read the news and raced over here expecting to see a massive party... and it seems very little of you are thrilled! Haven't you all been begging for this to happen for ages?

It's hard to be thrilled when you question whether it will have any effect at all. If you hear you're being given a new car, you're thrilled. If you find out that your "new car" is simply your old car painted a different color, you're less so.